Page 3 | What is she entitled to?

Original poster

sparkycats · 23/02/2022 18:38

@HalfShrunkMoreToGo

Just put the details you've given 8n to the CMS calculator, assuming £80,000 a year, 1 child, no other children anywhere else, 2-3 nights a week with him then the CMS payment would be £501 a month.

The question is whether he would pursue the house if she insists on the full entitlement, and if he did would she end up worse off by getting 5hat extra £150 a month.

Yep. That's my thinking. I think if she pushes her luck he would do that. I think in his mind he's given her a lot of money the last 18 months and throughout their marriage which he hasn't used wisely. I don't think her recent spending of this money has helped him feel generous towards her.

OP posts:

Original poster

sparkycats · 23/02/2022 18:38

She hasn't used wisely.

OP posts:

RedHelenB · 23/02/2022 18:54

@sparkycats

So, to clarify. Shes upset as she can't run her existing house on £350 even if she did increase her hours I expect. I don't know how much she earns though. She spends big though.

Is he obliged to pay half bills whilst the dc lives there?

No.

millymolls · 23/02/2022 19:47

Has she looked at claiming universal credit ?

Original poster

sparkycats · 23/02/2022 19:59

@millymolls

Has she looked at claiming universal credit ?

I don't think so.

I am not sure it's great her doing that when she could easily work more hours but doesn't want to.

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Original poster

sparkycats · 24/02/2022 10:33

Well I have fed it all back to her but I don't think she's listening. She seems like she has no intention of seeking legal advice. No intention of finding out exactly how much she should get.

Instead I am just getting messages about he's done this, said that etc and how she supported him for x years. She seems to be prioritising the narrative of how awful he is leaving her with such little, how he's screwed her over etc instead of taking a practical approach and sorting things out.

She has not acknowledged the fact he has basically left her the house. I hope he doesn't go back on this though if she starts demanding more off him and verbally abusing him.

I expect her parents are going to make up any finances she has lost so would imagine she can carry on her current position pretty easily. I do feel for them though, in their 60/70s having to give their daughter a monthly allowance.

Anyway. I think I have done all I can now if she's not listening. Thanks for all the information. I have learnt something myself.

It's tricky as this has made me see my friend in a different light. She just can't seem to see his POV in anything. He's the bad guy in it all.

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Rainbowqueeen · 24/02/2022 10:44

I would take a step back now if she is not listening to you.

Can she actually afford to run the house on her salary plus whatever benefits she is entitled to???

Original poster

sparkycats · 24/02/2022 10:50

@Rainbowqueeen

I would take a step back now if she is not listening to you. Can she actually afford to run the house on her salary plus whatever benefits she is entitled to???

Yep I am. It's frustrating trying to reason with someone who just doesn't want to listen. I ve tried pointing out that he could take a % of the house but she just insists it's her as it's in her name. That he doesn't have to pay her for the upkeep of their house. I find it extraordinary that I am doing this research for her abs she doesn't seem to even have looked into it herself. I said to her if she's not happy with his offer then find out what she is entitled to. She seems to just want to slag him off as the bad guy rather than doing that.

From what she's said. No- she can't afford it. I don't think she's even looked in UC though. She's burying her head in the sand. I expect that's why her parents will fund her. I don't think she has any intention of lowering her lifestyle. She has said she will several times during this process but hasn't.

OP posts:

millymolls · 24/02/2022 10:58

Well as stated - she’ll need to claim UC or increase her earnings if she wants to stay and hope he doesn’t realise what an idiot he’s been and out in a settlement against the house

Unknown83 · 24/02/2022 12:54

@sparkycats

Asking for a friend who's not on Mumsnet. I hope she's seeking legal advice but she wants some quick advice in the meantime. Her DH has just announced he's moving out and has offered her £350 per month total. They have been married 10 years plus.

Her situation is:
She was gifted a four bed house from her dad which is solely in her name. Estimated worth around £400k but not sure.
They have a small mortgage.
Her DH has paid all bills and the mortgage on the house for all that time.
They have 1 dc. Not decided yet but I guess her DH would have her two days in the week and one day at the weekend. This is the situation since they have been separated but living together.
He earns around £80,000 but I don't think she's sure. Self employed.
Their money has been very separate and he has given her a very healthy monthly allowance each month.
She works 20 hours a week in a minimum wage type job.
They have no savings, pension etc.
He is likely in a lot of debt but she doesn't know how much.
Sounds like he isn't trying to make any claims on the house and will be leaving it to her. But it is in her name so not sure how much claim he has anyway?

She's going mad that he's only paying her £350 a month which does seem low.

How much is she entitled to in this situation?

Sounds like your friend isn't very good at looking at the bigger picture and is only considering her needs and not his. She owns a £400k house whilst he has to start again from scratch, so let's do the maths.

He earns around £80k and will take home £54k. She'll get around £4.2k of that which is probably what the CMS calculator has indicated (I thought it would be a little higher but maybe he earns a bit less than £80k, he's going to have more time with the DC or he's saving a bit more in his pension which is perfectly reasonable). I don't know how old the child is but let's say this goes on for 10 years. She's got a £400k house and £40k of his future income so far.

If he doesn't spend a penny of his income on anything other than a house for himself it's still going to take him nearly 9 years to "level up" with her. Realistically, he's going to need at least half his income to live on so it will take around 18 years before he's caught her up in terms of wealth.

I think this is a very unfair settlement for him and she needs to tread very carefully. Asking for more will likely put her home back on the negotiating table.

Original poster

sparkycats · 24/02/2022 14:05

I think this is a very unfair settlement for him and she needs to tread very carefully. Asking for more will likely put her home back on the negotiating table.

Yep, I don't think she realises that. She seems to think he wouldn't have any of the house anyway so is only focused on how much he's giving her monthly. I don't think she's able to step back and really see things properly. She's very angry.

She wants to meet up and I am reluctant as I know it will be one big slag fest about her ex. Having found this information out from here I don't agree with her narrative about how unfair it all is and what a b he is. It's tricky as I do want to support her but can't listen to her when she refuses to do nothing to support herself or prepare herself for him moving out.

OP posts:

Unknown83 · 24/02/2022 14:16

@sparkycats

I think this is a very unfair settlement for him and she needs to tread very carefully. Asking for more will likely put her home back on the negotiating table.

Yep, I don't think she realises that. She seems to think he wouldn't have any of the house anyway so is only focused on how much he's giving her monthly. I don't think she's able to step back and really see things properly. She's very angry.

She wants to meet up and I am reluctant as I know it will be one big slag fest about her ex. Having found this information out from here I don't agree with her narrative about how unfair it all is and what a b he is. It's tricky as I do want to support her but can't listen to her when she refuses to do nothing to support herself or prepare herself for him moving out.

You could actually do her an enormous favour by being honest with her. She probably won't thank you straight away but right now she's on a course towards the worst possible outcome for herself. She needs to consider:

Her housing needs are only a 2 bedroom flat. A court could split the house 70/30 in her favour costing her around £130k, a fairly common outcome. A court has very wide discretion. They might even decide 50/50 is fair if it's enough for both of them to get a 2 bedroom flat where they live, it's impossible to say.
He's self employed and this is an advantage for two reasons. First, he can fiddle the books and "reduce" his income. With £350 a month on offer this might already be the case, so in fairness she could be a bit peeved about this (but taking that global view she's still doing very well).

Second, he can choose his own hours and this means he could both drop his income and arrange his working life to have the child half of the time. That would drop child maintenance to zero.

You could argue that things don't quite add up on both sides, but if she goes for full disclosure and an expensive court battle I think it's likely she'll be the one who comes out of it worse off.

HomeHomeInTheRange · 24/02/2022 16:04

If his offer really is leave her 100% of the house and give her £350 maintenance, she has the £350, her salary, the Child Benefit.

Her council tax will be reduced due to single adult discount.

Her options then would be to increase her work hours and / or downsize the house.

Most people could manage in that money with no mortgage to pay (if she downsizes).

It is quite likely that he has no pension as he sounds as feckless as her, but she needs to consider that if it does all get divvied up as it normally would in a divorce, that her pension would be an asset and up for grabs.

Original poster

sparkycats · 24/02/2022 16:29

@HomeHomeInTheRange

If his offer really is leave her 100% of the house and give her £350 maintenance, she has the £350, her salary, the Child Benefit.

Her council tax will be reduced due to single adult discount.

Her options then would be to increase her work hours and / or downsize the house.

Most people could manage in that money with no mortgage to pay (if she downsizes).

It is quite likely that he has no pension as he sounds as feckless as her, but she needs to consider that if it does all get divvied up as it normally would in a divorce, that her pension would be an asset and up for grabs.

I think the £350 is the child benefit he is offering. I wouldn't be surprised if he pays for other things for their dc too though. A friend advised him to pay for things for the dc directly rather than to her as she wasn't spending it on what it was meant for. I expect that's another reason why it's low as he doesn't trust the money will be spent on the dcs best interest and he doesn't want to fund my friend.

I don't think either of them have a pension or any savings despite his good salary. I think she might have one through her work like a state one.

I have tried to gently tell her a couple of times in our messages about the house but she seems adamant that because it's in her name it's hers. I don't think she's done any fact checking on it at all.

I am going to leave it now. She's not listening and it's just her ranting about him and how's she supported him for x number of years at the beginning of the relationship etc. She doesn't seem to be able to take a step back and actually think practically about the situation.

She's not seeing a solicitor apparently. I expect this is because her parents are going to bail her out otherwise by all accounts I don't why she wouldn't. Why she's not panicking even more. I imagine the ex is getting it in the neck right now. I do worry that she will wind him up so such he will decide to go for the house after all. Although I think he does want to look after the best interests of his dc so hopefully that will be enough for him not to retaliate.

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Babyvenusplant · 24/02/2022 16:31

@Mossstitch

I know this is frowned upon but I divorced few years back without a financial consent order, it's not obligatory. Ex agreed to sign over house to me when we first separated (guilty conscience). Few years later agreed to sign divorce papers if I didn't go after his inheritance money he had got after separation. (I wouldn't have anyway) I was worried he'd get more off me as I was working full time and had for years whilst he hadn't so just went along with what he said and got the divorce.

The legal advice I was given during my divorce was that without a financial agreement, if say, 10 years after I'd divorced my cheating bastard of an exh I won a massive amount of money on the lottery, he could actually just pop up out of the blue and try to claim some of it. He was the kind of asshole that would try it too so I went through with the financial agreement.

Original poster

sparkycats · 24/02/2022 16:39

They are separated but no talk of divorce but I imagine the same rules apply in terms of what he should be paying.

I think he's in big financial trouble so that's probably why the amount is also low. He's asking friends for money, sold his ridiculously expensive car on HP and asked her if they could borrow more on the mortgage. Fortunately she said no.

I do think that's pretty sneaky of him doing that when he must have been looking for his own place at the same time. However, It's probably literally what he can afford rather than trying to shaft her. His job is high stakes, make or break and relies on investment which he has just lost. I personally could not live on such a roller coaster financially like that but he seems to get a buzz out of it.

She's pointed out to me that only they know conversations and what's gone on which is very true. So maybe he has said or done things we don't know about or visa versa. We have had one side of the story from her. He has actually kept a very dignified silence about the whole thing.

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Original poster

sparkycats · 24/02/2022 19:55

Well the latest is she's kicked off and insisted he gives her £5000 to cover her for the next couple of months. He's agreed. He is a real softy in giving in to her. She's arguing it was a shock he was moving out but she knew it was coming and haven't saved any money. I don't understand why it was a shock.

OP posts:

MichelleScarn · 24/02/2022 20:05

Has she posted on here herself? Thread recently where CM was £350 and the OP was incensed to be told that she would also have to pay towards her child's 'upkeep' as well so his 350+350 would be 700 a month in total.

Original poster

sparkycats · 24/02/2022 20:26

I don't know. Not seen that. Which topic is in on? I hope not or this would be very outing.

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Unknown83 · 24/02/2022 21:35

@sparkycats

I don't know. Not seen that. Which topic is in on? I hope not or this would be very outing.

I think there was a key distinction in that case because she wasn't a SAHP, earned nearly as much as her ex and had downsized.