What is she entitled to?

[sparkycats]

Asking for a friend who's not on Mumsnet. I hope she's seeking legal advice but she wants some quick advice in the meantime. Her DH has just announced he's moving out and has offered her £350 per month total. They have been married 10 years plus.

Her situation is:
She was gifted a four bed house from her dad which is solely in her name. Estimated worth around £400k but not sure.
They have a small mortgage.
Her DH has paid all bills and the mortgage on the house for all that time.
They have 1 dc. Not decided yet but I guess her DH would have her two days in the week and one day at the weekend. This is the situation since they have been separated but living together.
He earns around £80,000 but I don't think she's sure. Self employed.
Their money has been very separate and he has given her a very healthy monthly allowance each month.
She works 20 hours a week in a minimum wage type job.
They have no savings, pension etc.
He is likely in a lot of debt but she doesn't know how much.
Sounds like he isn't trying to make any claims on the house and will be leaving it to her. But it is in her name so not sure how much claim he has anyway?

She's going mad that he's only paying her £350 a month which does seem low.

How much is she entitled to in this situation?

Yea but if he’s self employed he won’t pay himself that salary!

If he's on £80k, the calculator says he should be paying approx £589 a month in child maintenance.

I looked quickly for her and it was around £500.

Yes, he probably pays himself and minimum and then dividends. If he was horrible he could say he earns minimal.

Even if they avoid the courts, their financial consent order will still have be approved by a judge. That won't happen if it's egregiously favouring one party over the other.

I think if she has:
£400k house
£350 a month
CM

And he has
All the debts
No assets

It will be denied outright.

If he's sought legal advice, I expect he will either want a chunk of the house or there are other greater undisclosed assets. A lawyer would advise against this as a financial settlement.

The lawyer may have said offer £350 now while we draw up a proposal. But the house would be on the table in that.

I think the most likely and reasonable outcome (as outlined before) is:

1. all debts are totted up
2. all assets (house, pensions, savings, investments) are added up.
3. house is sold and firstly used to clear debts on both sides
4. remaining assets / equity split. If possible, she's given enough to buy a two bedroom house outright. The rest plus his salary multiples is used to fund his two bedroom house.
5. no spousal as she is housed outright while he has maxed mortgage.
6. CM at CMS levels.

It's hard to be accurate without the details. But here is an example.

House worth £400,000
Imagine total debts are £40,000
Imagine mortgage is also £40,000
Pretend there are no pensions or savings

Total equity left is £320,000 (less sales fees etc, so let's call it £300k for sake of argument).

Mortgage capacity is typically approx 3.5-4x salary. But CM is taken into account and self employed amounts are usually much lower. So let's say he can comfortably raise £230k.

She will be expected to work full time / maximise her earns. Even on min wage, she's looking at a salary around £16k, which gives her a mortgage capability of about £55k.

If she's given £237,500 from the house - plus her £55k mortgage - she can buy a house worth £292,500. (That's a teeny mortgage and a huge deposit).

Equally, his mortgage capability plus the remaining £62,500 in the house gives him the exact same house fund.

All the debts have been cleared.

Her monthly mortgage payments are approx £321.50.
His monthly mortgage payments are approx £1,345

Clearly no spousal.

That's giving him 21% of the house and her 79%. In reality I think 70/30 is more likely.

Of course the actual size of the mortgage and debts will significantly impact this. And the calcs are just an example. If she goes for spousal he'll need a far higher percentage of the house.

Also his CM and the fact he's self employed could drop his mortgage capacity even further. At which point she'll be looking at more like 60/40. Any pensions can come into play and be equalised. Likewise other assets.

If his company is incorporated- his business could also be on the table as an asset. This is hugely complicated and needs specialist advice.

Any lawyer should be telling him to look up two bed property particulars near the schools. Offer her enough equity to buy outright or with a teeny mortgage. And get a clean break.

I cannot imagine any lawyer suggesting he keeps all debts, no assets, pays her £350 a month in SM and CM on top. And has nothing for himself

It sounds a good deal to me.

Thanks very much.

So really she should be grabbing this offer by the sound of it.

I guess his solicitor might have advised against it but he's decided because he wants to keep the house for the dc he won't try and the house.

Can't they just decide amongst themselves until it gets to a divorce? Would they need to have it legal with a sign off? I guess for her that might be better though so he can't suddenly decide he's having half the house afterall.

Even if they weren’t married he’d have a claim on the house for paying the mortgage and all the bills.

She should definitely grab this offer. But she should also be aware that it might not be signed off by a judge. I can't see how they would allow her all the assets and him none and no deposit.

The only things I can think of would be.

• he has a big pension she's not claiming any of (unlikely given what you've said)
• he is earning far more than she thinks
• he is worried she'll go after his company and wants that off the table.
• he has investments / savings that she's not aware of. And that includes a home deposit.
• her debts so massively outweigh his, that giving her the house is actually not such a significant asset.

My take would be that this £350 is an interim arrangement to keep her happy while he prepares an offer that's more balanced, (where any of the above could come out the woodwork).

Or he's not taken legal advice / is going against it. (Which won't get round the judge bit).

Of course, they could just arrange privately and not get a consent order. But then he could come back at any point in the future and claim against the house...

If this was my friend I’d be encouraging her to be fair to her partner, what she wants isn’t fair, at all.

Sounds like your friend is in for a nasty shock when reality bites, as it inevitably will.

@Staryflight445

If this was my friend I’d be encouraging her to be fair to her partner, what she wants isn’t fair, at all.

I am not sure what she expected. We all saw this coming. She seems to have been extremely thoughtless about it all.

I don't think she's thinking about what's fair for him. It's all how she's going to afford the house.

Unfortunately I think you're right. Sounds like a massive reality check. I don't think she appreciates how good she's had it financially all this time.

In her situation id accept the low maintenance in exchange for him not coming for the house which he rightly or wrongly can come for. Then id focus on increasing my earning potential because maintenence can only be relied on for so long.

She's going to have to stop spending big, even if he doubles it it's not going to sustain someone throwing money away.

I know this is frowned upon but I divorced few years back without a financial consent order, it's not obligatory. Ex agreed to sign over house to me when we first separated (guilty conscience). Few years later agreed to sign divorce papers if I didn't go after his inheritance money he had got after separation. (I wouldn't have anyway) I was worried he'd get more off me as I was working full time and had for years whilst he hadn't so just went along with what he said and got the divorce.

Can only believe the husband hasn't had any legal advice. Once he does, things are going to get a lot worse/nastier.

Is this all the same if they are only separated? Should he be paying half the house until a divorce settlement?

It sounds like they aren't thinking about divorce yet.

Until divorce he only has to pay her CM and nothing else.

He has the right to live and use the house as he sees fit.

He doesn't have to pay mortgage or any bills. Typically he'd be incentivised to pay because if they defaulted then then both their credit ratings would be at risk, but since the house is only in her name I wouldn't expect he'll be impacted if she doesn't pay.

The courts will expect and understand that he will need to spend money to house himself / run his new home. He can take reasonable steps to separate their finances e.g. expecting her to pay her own bills, shopping, TV etc.

He can still come after the house when they get around to divorce.

@OnceUponAThread

Until divorce he only has to pay her CM and nothing else.

He has the right to live and use the house as he sees fit.

He doesn't have to pay mortgage or any bills. Typically he'd be incentivised to pay because if they defaulted then then both their credit ratings would be at risk, but since the house is only in her name I wouldn't expect he'll be impacted if she doesn't pay.

The courts will expect and understand that he will need to spend money to house himself / run his new home. He can take reasonable steps to separate their finances e.g. expecting her to pay her own bills, shopping, TV etc.

He can still come after the house when they get around to divorce.

Goodness. That seems very much in his favour.

Well I have fed all this back to her. She's replied that she's slowly working through it all- whatever that means. She seems to still have no intention of seeing a solicitor as I have advised her if she's made an appointment out right. Personally this is the first thing I would have done 18 months ago when all this started.

She's still angry about the £350 despite him saying he wants to keep her and dc on the house. I have gently pointed pointed out to her he probably means he won't take half he's entailed to rather than paying half of the running costs. It doesn't seem to have occurred to her he's leaving her a whole house.

I think she could file for maintenance pending suit. Ie an interim order - again she needs a solicitor

@millymolls is right. She could look at interim maintenance order.

She might have a case depending on how much the small mortgage is and / or how much he is having to pay in rent / bills.

She'd have to detail her expenses each month. But OP mentioned she is frittering away money which doesn't tend to go well.

If I were his lawyer I'd advise defending against an interim order though. Particularly since he's not in the family home and presumably having to shell out for rent / running his own household.

If she's only working 20 hours a week and kids are in school, there is an expectation that she maximises her earnings.

Particularly if he is having children two nights in the week and one at weekends (so 3/7, not far off 50/50).

She sounds like she may also be entitled to benefits, so that might be worth exploring in the short term.

@millymolls

I think she could file for maintenance pending suit. Ie an interim order - again she needs a solicitor

He's offered £350. A quick calculation shows he should pay more like £500 but then he's not taking any of the house.

He's starting from scratch and has his own house to pay for. I can see his POV but unfortunately whenever we try to gentle give his POV to our friend she gets very angry. I also think he's got himself in the shit financially a d think he's potentially loosing his job.

Interim order might work though. The disparity in incomes pre-divorce is fairly stark.

Again it's so hard to tell without knowing.

1. how much the mortgage is
2. how much he earns
3. how much it's costing him to house himself in the interim
4. how much she earns
5. how much he's spending servicing debts

Etc.

CM should definitely be a priority, but definitely worth exploring an interim order with a solicitor

Just put the details you've given 8n to the CMS calculator, assuming £80,000 a year, 1 child, no other children anywhere else, 2-3 nights a week with him then the CMS payment would be £501 a month.

The question is whether he would pursue the house if she insists on the full entitlement, and if he did would she end up worse off by getting 5hat extra £150 a month.

@OnceUponAThread

Interim order might work though. The disparity in incomes pre-divorce is fairly stark.

Again it's so hard to tell without knowing.

1. how much the mortgage is
2. how much he earns
3. how much it's costing him to house himself in the interim
4. how much she earns
5. how much he's spending servicing debts

Etc.

CM should definitely be a priority, but definitely worth exploring an interim order with a solicitor

Thanks. I wonder if going down that road would leave her with more or less.

He earns £80k I think. She earns probably around £200 per week I would say if you take it as £10 per hour x 20. She has much more earning potential though as dc at school but doesn't want to increase her hours.

Their mortgage is very small. Unsure of the amount. Only taken out to pay off his debts and a small extension on the house.

His budget for a rental was £1400 I think so his costs are upwards of that. He did have a ridiculously expense car on HP but has got rid of that now.

She seems like she's not going down the solicitor advice route. I think her parents have agreed to support her.