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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

solicitor costs - wwyd?

43 replies

Threecrookedhearts · 22/02/2022 11:22

DH left 3 weeks ago to move in with a woman he'd only just met. He's being a complete arse to me and I've been ringing around solicitors but just feel a bit in limbo about what to do. The past few days he's been texting me asking if I've found a divorce lawyer yet - he has. I think I should get things moving now as he's clearly in a hurry and I just want this done with as well. We have 2 DC (12 and 14), a house with a mortgage and about £600k equity. Even if I got 80% of the equity I couldn't then afford to buy anything more than a 3 bed flat in a not as nice area and further from the kids school. It's really not fair on them and stbxh had told me that I could stay here. I think he's now rethinking this and going to get pushy. As I do want to stay here and hopefully pay him off somehow then I realise I will need a solicitor rather than a diy divorce. I'm good with admin etc so I think I could do it myself. I've now found one solicitor I really liked but she charges £335ph plus vat for the financials. The divorce itself if £750+vat plus court fees. I'm wondering if people would recommend I handle the divorce myself - do I need a solicitor for this if there are kids involved and a house. Or is £335+vat ph silly money if I just want to try and stay in this house somehow and buy him out. I want us to keep our own pensions (mine is worth more than his but not sure of exact figures). He's got about 7 different pensions (I have one). Would this very fact rack up solicitors costs for me or him or both? I earn about £42k stbxh £33k plus a car allowance of £3700 (car is joint owned and we've just finished paying it off but he's taken it) so the allowance is just like an extra bit of salary each month. Both DH will remain with me and not even spend a night with him certainly for the near future as he's moved 90 mins away and DD won't even talk to him. He's moved in with ow and her kid so no chance my kids will be staying with them. I really need to make a decision so would you advise forking out the fee for her to do both the divorce and the financials? Financials she guessed at £5-6k + vat and to take 9 months. I don't really have any savings so will be selling anything that's not nailed down and begging off my parents for a loan!

Thanks for reading!

OP posts:
kitkatsky · 22/02/2022 11:35

My personal feeling is that even though it's extortionate, it's worth paying the money to have things done right and make sure you get what you're due, but obviously it depends what you can afford and whether you think things will get nasty

Wisemensay · 22/02/2022 11:38

I'm so sorry you're going through this OP. It must be such a shock. I am a lawyer so maybe I'm biased but I do think a lawyer would help you. That doesn't sound straight forward financially and there are orders your solicitor could seek that could (if granted) keep you and the kids in the house until they're 18/finished in full time education. If there is a difference in earning potential in the future that needs to be considered too. All the best and good luck.

TheFormidableMrsC · 22/02/2022 11:48

I would definitely have a solicitor for the financials.The actual divorce you can do yourself very easily. Do that but do NOT apply for the absolute until all financials are settled and a consent order is signed and sealed.

I did all my own legals as I simply couldn't afford representation. It drained the life out of me and ex, like yours, ended up being a complete arsehole (encouraged by OW) so we ended up with multiple court hearings and it went on and on. I then had to go through the same rigmarole multiple times over child arrangements. The other piece of advice I'd give is to immediately start a CMS case. Courts do not deal with maintenance with the exception of a specific set of circumstances. Make sure he is paying the correct maintenance for your children. Let the CMS deal with it, it's easy enough if he is employed.

Assume your ex is going to be very difficult. The "guilt" bubble they all find themselves in is very short lived and you need to get your ducks in a row. He's going to find himself staring at the reality of his poor decisions very soon. Sorry you're going through this, you will be OK Thanks

LemonTT · 22/02/2022 11:55

I think you should slow down a bit on prompting the outcome of the divorce. It’s a long way off and no decisions need to be made immediately. Indeed a wrong footed and emotional reaction could lead to more problems.

What he does now is not in your control. You need to stabilise the situation for you and your children. Primarily the finances, who is paying for what in the short term. Have you applied for child support? Get this sorted and then research your long term options and likely outcomes from a divorce. But by the sounds of it you earn enough and have sufficient equity and pensions to be on course for a clean break. It’s going to be nearer 50% than 100%.

My advice would be to try to have a reasonable conversation over finances that get you through the period up to divorce. That’s child support and help with the mortgage. Separating debt and assets like the car. These things need immediate attention. The divorce won’t finalise for a year or two.

TheFormidableMrsC · 22/02/2022 12:06

@LemonTT

I think you should slow down a bit on prompting the outcome of the divorce. It’s a long way off and no decisions need to be made immediately. Indeed a wrong footed and emotional reaction could lead to more problems.

What he does now is not in your control. You need to stabilise the situation for you and your children. Primarily the finances, who is paying for what in the short term. Have you applied for child support? Get this sorted and then research your long term options and likely outcomes from a divorce. But by the sounds of it you earn enough and have sufficient equity and pensions to be on course for a clean break. It’s going to be nearer 50% than 100%.

My advice would be to try to have a reasonable conversation over finances that get you through the period up to divorce. That’s child support and help with the mortgage. Separating debt and assets like the car. These things need immediate attention. The divorce won’t finalise for a year or two.

Why won't the divorce finalise until a year or two down the line? That's not necessary at all. I got my decree nisi within 3 months or so of ex leaving. I could have got my absolute 6 weeks after that but held back until finances were settled.
Threecrookedhearts · 22/02/2022 12:08

I know I earn more but I have 2 DC to look after and no way could I even afford a 2 bed flat on 50% of the equity. I have a DS14 and DD12 so I need 3 beds. With 50% of equity and taking on a huge £180k mortgage on my own at 50 I'd only be able to afford a 2 bed flat. I'll need a solicitor's advice I guess to ensure I get at least 80% (he'd previously said I could have 100% but backtracked now). Apparently he'd wanted to leave for at least 2 years. Shame he didn't think of that when he lost his job during the pandemic and could only get a minimum wage job for 9 months while I helped support him. He's cheated on my via craigslist/hook up sites for most of our married life. I've found emails to prostitues and so much worse. I'll be damned if he screws me and DC over financially when all I've ever done is work my socks off for our family.

OP posts:
Dillydollydingdong · 22/02/2022 12:15

Why do you have to jump at his command and start divorce proceedings quickly? Why do you have to sort out the financials quickly? (Me and my dp split up 2 years ago but I'm not ready to sell the house so he'll just have to wait). Do what's right for you and the DC.

1Wanda1 · 22/02/2022 12:16

I'm a solicitor (not family law) and I have been through a divorce. You definitely need a lawyer as you have a decent chunk of assets between you and it is unlikely that you will be able to get a fair outcome acting for yourself.

I would say though that your lawyer's costs estimate sounds very low. My divorce was a good 15 years ago and the assets position was not dissimilar (though we only had £300k equity). My legal bills were close to £20k - that was for a year of proceedings before my stupid ex-H finally agreed a deal. His costs were significantly more.

Unknown83 · 22/02/2022 12:20

@Threecrookedhearts

I know I earn more but I have 2 DC to look after and no way could I even afford a 2 bed flat on 50% of the equity. I have a DS14 and DD12 so I need 3 beds. With 50% of equity and taking on a huge £180k mortgage on my own at 50 I'd only be able to afford a 2 bed flat. I'll need a solicitor's advice I guess to ensure I get at least 80% (he'd previously said I could have 100% but backtracked now). Apparently he'd wanted to leave for at least 2 years. Shame he didn't think of that when he lost his job during the pandemic and could only get a minimum wage job for 9 months while I helped support him. He's cheated on my via craigslist/hook up sites for most of our married life. I've found emails to prostitues and so much worse. I'll be damned if he screws me and DC over financially when all I've ever done is work my socks off for our family.
First of all, his cheating behaviour is entirely irrelevant to the financial settlement.

Second, in a divorce, it is not just your needs that matter but his as well. If you're 50 then presumably he is around that age too? Why would it be a fair outcome for you to get more than half of what is quite a hefty amount of equity and how would he be able to meet his needs if he did? You've said that half the equity plus a big mortgage is needed to buy a two bedroomed flat in the area which - let's be clear - is going to be the minimum to meet his needs and he earns less than you as well. Of course, the needs of the children will offset that but I think there are two possible outcomes that maybe you haven't considered (I'm not a lawyer, so there might be other outcomes too):

  1. It might be considered reasonable for you to move to a cheaper area because £300k equity and a £180k mortgage buys pretty substantial properties in much of the country. For example, I live in an area commutable to London and my 4 bedroom house is worth quite a bit less than £480k. I don't know how much weight of importance will be placed on the children staying in the same schools though.

  2. A Mesher Order might be appropriate in your situation. This would be where you stay in the house until the youngest is 18 and then split the equity 50/50. This would be an appropriate outcome if staying near the children's school is important but once they are adults your needs will be reassessed as a one bedroom flat.

Another Mesher possibility is that you still have to sell the FMH and buy something smaller so you're not overhoused but still where some of his equity is tied up until a future date (either when children are 18 or there is a trigger event).

OnceUponAThread · 22/02/2022 12:22

You need to tread very carefully here.

You are the higher earner, you have a bigger pension. It's extremely unlikely you'd get 80% of the house, let alone 100%. Even if you agreed that between yourselves, it's unlikely a judge would sign it off.

Even though you think he won't see the children, you'll both be expected to house them appropriately. His mortgage raising capacity and income is lower than yours, so he could argue he needs more of the house equity than you.

If he's permanently housed with his new partner, that might work in your favour, though it's tricky and depends on several factors. Is he paying her rent? Does she own the house? Are there enough bedrooms for your shared children to stay?

Normally the courts prefer a clean break, but there might be a good argument here for a mesher.

This could allow you stay in the property until the youngest child is 18, at which point you sell and split the proceeds. (Starting at 50/50).

At that point you could downsize to a one-bed which would be easily affordable with half the equity.

They're waning in popularity, but might work here since he is housed with his partner (assuming there is room for the kids etc).

Pensions equality will be expected. So you won't be able to both keep your own - particularly if yours is substantially higher. You could give him more of the house to offset your larger pension. E.g. you get 40% of the equity and he gets 60% (depending on the numbers).

Marriage typically protects lower earners on divorce. And the courts won't allow something that is materially unfair.

You definitely need a lawyer (and a good one).

As PPs have said, start child maintenance proceedings. (But worth noting that this will reduce his salary further compared to yours, and increase his needs).

Also - don't be rushed by him. You want to do this properly and correctly. I'm not saying delay maliciously - that will just cost you both more money in legal fees. But you don't need to sprint through it all ASAP because he says so.

Threecrookedhearts · 22/02/2022 12:27

@1Wanda1

I'm a solicitor (not family law) and I have been through a divorce. You definitely need a lawyer as you have a decent chunk of assets between you and it is unlikely that you will be able to get a fair outcome acting for yourself.

I would say though that your lawyer's costs estimate sounds very low. My divorce was a good 15 years ago and the assets position was not dissimilar (though we only had £300k equity). My legal bills were close to £20k - that was for a year of proceedings before my stupid ex-H finally agreed a deal. His costs were significantly more.

Thanks - eek. If we avoided court and were to agree the financials between us would that avoid the huge 20k legal bills do you think?
OP posts:
LemonTT · 22/02/2022 12:28

Well yes the OP could rush to divorce in months, but there is a covid backlog in the court system so this is unlikely.

OP all people on here can do is give you a steer and some realistic advice. I don’t think you want to hear that so you probably need to speak to a solicitor and do what you think is right.

FWIW, unless you are super rich your finances and lifestyle will take a hit during separation and divorce. The earlier you come to terms with the unfairness of that the better.

Threecrookedhearts · 22/02/2022 12:31

@unknown83 He's left the town where we live though and moved 100 miles away to live with ow. He won't be coming back to our town now so doesn't need to buy himself a 2 bed flat. There is no way I'm making the DC move schools. DS is in his first year of GCSEs and DD is settled. They very much rely on their friends for support. They're so heartbroken as it is so no way could I move them.

OP posts:
DenholmElliot · 22/02/2022 12:57

If you want to stay in the house then don't do anything about the divorce. Let him do it all then use delay tactics, pretend to agree mediation, change your mind, go to mediation again etc etc. Ultimately, only the judge can order the home to be sold.

Have you actually made your ex an offer yet?

Unknown83 · 22/02/2022 12:59

[quote Threecrookedhearts]@unknown83 He's left the town where we live though and moved 100 miles away to live with ow. He won't be coming back to our town now so doesn't need to buy himself a 2 bed flat. There is no way I'm making the DC move schools. DS is in his first year of GCSEs and DD is settled. They very much rely on their friends for support. They're so heartbroken as it is so no way could I move them.[/quote]
Irrespective of that, it would be an egregiously unfair outcome for you to receive such a significant part of the equity. I think you need to go to a solicitor and get your expectations managed.

I'm the higher earner and it helps to speak to a solicitor because they can give you some indication of best and worst case scenarios so you can measure your expectations and become accustomed to it. Unfortunately divorce can be extremely unfair on the higher earner (e.g. courts don't tend to care whether your ex gave up a career or is just a lazy so and so, they'll still make a judgement based on the same needs) and they don't care about adultery even when your ex has spent hundreds or thousands on hotels, trips away, gifts etc. The sooner you come to terms with that, the easier it will be.

I think your main objective is not the assets (50% seems reasonable) but making sure this scumbag can never come back for more money.

Queenkarm · 22/02/2022 13:01

Op please pay for a solicitor. He will walk all over you if you do a DIY divorce. You need expect legal advice

1Wanda1 · 22/02/2022 16:10

@Threecrookedhearts

"Thanks - eek. If we avoided court and were to agree the financials between us would that avoid the huge 20k legal bills do you think?"

This is entirely based on my own experience of divorce, my observations of friends' divorces and and my practice as a litigator, but I don't think you will agree financials between you without lawyers on the basis of what you've said about your STBXH's conduct so far. Not unless you're willing to agree 50/50, of course. Though, once STBXH thinks more about it, he may take the view that as the lower earner he should have more than 50%.

As others have said, if you do decide to go it alone, do NOT whatever you do apply for the Decree Absolute before you have fully agreed the financials and have a consent order sealed by the Court to show that.

millymolls · 22/02/2022 21:14

Agree with others that your expectations need managing
Based on the limited info here this is more likely to end up nearer to 50:50 not 80:20
But would urge you to use a solicitor

Dixiechickonhols · 22/02/2022 22:10

I wouldn’t diy. Things like pensions can easily be overlooked and can be worth more than house. Obviously go on recommendations, shop around for a solicitor you are happy with.

PicaK · 25/02/2022 08:36

You go to court (and incur the vast charges) if you can't agree on a fair division of assets. So the judge decides for you. And you both say goodbye to 40k of joint matrimonial assets.
Up until the court thing its you and him negotiating - you can pay very expensive lawyers to do this or you can both be grown ups and sort it yourself. (If only 1 of you can be grown up then sadly it doesn't work.)
You sound bright. He doesn't because he's gone and got himself housed elsewhere.

I wouldn't rush the divorce. There's no benefit to you in that right now. You've barely had time to think and process.

www.wilkes.co.uk/people/sian-kenkre/
This is a really plain speaking solicitor. She won't rip you off and she recommends an equally level headed mediator. Worth having a chat to.
Don't hang onto the house at all costs though.

Threecrookedhearts · 25/02/2022 09:12

@PicaK

You go to court (and incur the vast charges) if you can't agree on a fair division of assets. So the judge decides for you. And you both say goodbye to 40k of joint matrimonial assets. Up until the court thing its you and him negotiating - you can pay very expensive lawyers to do this or you can both be grown ups and sort it yourself. (If only 1 of you can be grown up then sadly it doesn't work.) You sound bright. He doesn't because he's gone and got himself housed elsewhere.

I wouldn't rush the divorce. There's no benefit to you in that right now. You've barely had time to think and process.

www.wilkes.co.uk/people/sian-kenkre/
This is a really plain speaking solicitor. She won't rip you off and she recommends an equally level headed mediator. Worth having a chat to.
Don't hang onto the house at all costs though.

Thank you. That all makes sense. What do you mean by 'don't hang onto the house at all costs' though? Sorry being dim.
OP posts:
ThisIsGroundControl · 25/02/2022 09:15

You have 600k equity and you are worried about a £500 bill?

Threecrookedhearts · 25/02/2022 09:37

@ThisIsGroundControl

You have 600k equity and you are worried about a £500 bill?
Sorry it should have said £335 ph +vat! More like £10k. And where I live you can't even get a bed flat for £500k.
OP posts:
RedHelenB · 25/02/2022 09:44

You earn more, have a better pension and your children aren't little, they're teenagers. I would be surprised if you got 80% , there doesn't seem to be a clear reason why you should have more than 50%. Who's cheated, been the worse person in a marriage doesn't come into it.

ThisIsGroundControl · 25/02/2022 10:56

Well that makes more sense (plus you can see I have no idea about divorce costs Grin ) however 600k is still a lot of money you might find that spending money now costs you less in the long run.