solicitor costs - wwyd?

[Threecrookedhearts]

DH left 3 weeks ago to move in with a woman he'd only just met. He's being a complete arse to me and I've been ringing around solicitors but just feel a bit in limbo about what to do. The past few days he's been texting me asking if I've found a divorce lawyer yet - he has. I think I should get things moving now as he's clearly in a hurry and I just want this done with as well. We have 2 DC (12 and 14), a house with a mortgage and about £600k equity. Even if I got 80% of the equity I couldn't then afford to buy anything more than a 3 bed flat in a not as nice area and further from the kids school. It's really not fair on them and stbxh had told me that I could stay here. I think he's now rethinking this and going to get pushy. As I do want to stay here and hopefully pay him off somehow then I realise I will need a solicitor rather than a diy divorce. I'm good with admin etc so I think I could do it myself. I've now found one solicitor I really liked but she charges £335ph plus vat for the financials. The divorce itself if £750+vat plus court fees. I'm wondering if people would recommend I handle the divorce myself - do I need a solicitor for this if there are kids involved and a house. Or is £335+vat ph silly money if I just want to try and stay in this house somehow and buy him out. I want us to keep our own pensions (mine is worth more than his but not sure of exact figures). He's got about 7 different pensions (I have one). Would this very fact rack up solicitors costs for me or him or both? I earn about £42k stbxh £33k plus a car allowance of £3700 (car is joint owned and we've just finished paying it off but he's taken it) so the allowance is just like an extra bit of salary each month. Both DH will remain with me and not even spend a night with him certainly for the near future as he's moved 90 mins away and DD won't even talk to him. He's moved in with ow and her kid so no chance my kids will be staying with them. I really need to make a decision so would you advise forking out the fee for her to do both the divorce and the financials? Financials she guessed at £5-6k + vat and to take 9 months. I don't really have any savings so will be selling anything that's not nailed down and begging off my parents for a loan!

Thanks for reading!

@RedHelenB

You earn more, have a better pension and your children aren't little, they're teenagers. I would be surprised if you got 80% , there doesn't seem to be a clear reason why you should have more than 50%. Who's cheated, been the worse person in a marriage doesn't come into it.

Because he's living renting free with o/w and I'm having to house myself and 2 DC in a v expensive city. He's moved 90 mins away and won't be having the dc overnight. I'll have them 100% of the time overnight. How can it make sense he gets 50%?

That may well not be the case by the time of the divorce. He may want to buy his own property. I'm just being realistic based on what you've put so far.

I've just been through similar, I did most of the work, with a solicitor giving me advice, then I spent a lot on a decent barrister for the 2nd hearing, where we settled. She helped with the negotiations in the run up to that hearing so I think the tone was set and I got a decent outcome.

My advice? Kick off the actual divorce now, that way you have more control. You can do this yourself.

Steel yourself if you're going to do parts of the consent orders yourself. It takes a lot of time and was very draining. Ex was fully represented so I got to see what his solicitor was doing for him that I was doing for free. There were large chunks of admin and information gathering.

But don't underestimate the emotional toll of doing it yourself, it's gruelling, particularly when you're up against a professional. My barrister did compliment me on my record of taking it to that point though

And my set up was similar. Slightly higher earner, slightly higher pension and had the kids full time. I got a little over 50% and kept my pension. My greater earning capacity and pension balanced up the responsibilities for the kids. From my experience, and other people who had gone through similar, surprisingly little weight is given to the extra needed to house the kids while they're living at home.

The reality is divorce costs money. Living in two houses instead of one costs money. If £480k doesn't buy you a 3 bed house where you live, how far away do you have to move before it does? It isn't just about what you want and need op I'm afraid, he also has needs.

In answer to your question, absolutely do not DIY.

@arethereanyleftatall

The reality is divorce costs money. Living in two houses instead of one costs money. If £480k doesn't buy you a 3 bed house where you live, how far away do you have to move before it does? It isn't just about what you want and need op I'm afraid, he also has needs.

In answer to your question, absolutely do not DIY.

As shit as stbxh is I don't believe he wants to harm the kids as well. They'd have to leave their school and all their friends to find somewhere affordable if I only got 50% or much less than 80%.

A mesher order is probably your best bet then.

Mesher orders are increasingly rare, but I do think there is a good case for one here given the children's ages.

I don't think you can reasonably have 100% or even 80% of the house full stop. Particularly as the higher earner, with a higher pension. Even if he agrees (which sounds unlikely) I don't think you'll get a judge to sign it off. You might "need" the house for the next couple of years while the eldest is doing exams, but your housing needs are equivalent to his (in the eyes of the law) and will drop significantly in a few short years.

But the more I read, the more it seems that there aren't enough assets to house you both (with room for the kids) appropriately at the moment.

Currently my understanding is eldest is doing GCSE's youngest not at important exams yet. One option could be mesher until eldest is 18 and then you and the younger move somewhere cheaper.

Understandably you want youngest to stay at this school too. It sounds like Ex wants that too. And it works in his favour because once youngest is 18 your needs drop dramatically.

The only problem I can see with a mesher is that if him and his partner split he'll have problems housing himself and the kids in the interim. He could also argue that he's staying there in the short term but needs to house himself and kids appropriately with the divorce settlement.

A sensible proposal could be. You stay in the house until youngest is 18. At that point, home is sold and you split the equity. I'd expect that to be 50/50. You'll probably have to equalise pensions.

Also worth considering that you can access tax-free lump sums from private pensions at age 55. That means that you both have half the home equity plus a lump sum to play with if you want to live somewhere nicer.

At that point the money will be sufficient since you won't be tied to schools, and could move somewhere cheaper and with fewer bedrooms.

I think you need to let go of this bonkers 80% to 100% idea. It's just unjustifiable, particularly given the ages of the children.

If you want to keep the house, you could consider giving him your pensions to the value of 50% of the equity. That kind of depends on the numbers. Your pension will take a massive hit, but you'd have 15 years to try and make up the shortfall.

If your pensions are DC and he's also around 50 he could access the funds (and 25% tax free lump sum) in just a few years. It's generally not advised, but if the house is the be all and end all it's an option that achieves similar outcomes to the mesher.

I've been there OP, get yourself a lawyer.

I personally would file for divorce online on the grounds of adultery, you don't need a solicitor to do that. I would then suggest you ask him to sit down with you and work out a financial settlement before you turn to a lawyer, they are only interested in fees not in you and every penny spent on them is less money for the settlement. Once you have a sketch you can use an online consent order company or if you cannot agree appoint a solicitor.

As to the equity you are probably going to have to be realistic, unless there's pensions or savings to offset you are going to have to move. I'm in a house around half the size myself but mortgage free

He might be living with the OW now but anything could happen. They could split up or they could want to move to a bigger house.

@gogohm

I personally would file for divorce online on the grounds of adultery, you don't need a solicitor to do that. I would then suggest you ask him to sit down with you and work out a financial settlement before you turn to a lawyer, they are only interested in fees not in you and every penny spent on them is less money for the settlement. Once you have a sketch you can use an online consent order company or if you cannot agree appoint a solicitor.

As to the equity you are probably going to have to be realistic, unless there's pensions or savings to offset you are going to have to move. I'm in a house around half the size myself but mortgage free

I believe if you state adultery it is more complicated because you bring a third party into it. You'd be best going for unreasonable behaviour.

My first DH fucked off with another woman, he was a grabby arsehole but we were nisi within 2 months and absolute within 4.

Agree with others who sayapply for your divorce online now. It gives you the control. As pp said Adultery is a hard one to use as you have to prove it amd it brings a 3rd party in. You can use the adultery reasons in Unreasonable Behaviour though. Thats what I did along with a few other bits and I requested my costs too which the judge granted.
Online divorce applications arent taking that long atm. Applied 9th dec, nisi agrees feb 2nd can apply for absolute march 17th. I won't apply for the absolute though as we dont have the finances sorted yet.

@1Wanda1

I'm a solicitor (not family law) and I have been through a divorce. You definitely need a lawyer as you have a decent chunk of assets between you and it is unlikely that you will be able to get a fair outcome acting for yourself.

I would say though that your lawyer's costs estimate sounds very low. My divorce was a good 15 years ago and the assets position was not dissimilar (though we only had £300k equity). My legal bills were close to £20k - that was for a year of proceedings before my stupid ex-H finally agreed a deal. His costs were significantly more.

Bloody hell? £20k? Do not take this advice op. First lesson, solicitors make a lot of money out of you fighting with each other. The sooner you both park your anger and get on with job of agreeing and compromising based on what courts use as criteria for settlement ( look them up) , the quicker the mess can be sorted. And the less money you’ll both lose to unnecessary legal bills. We spent under £2k, for everything. I had to bite my tongue, swallow my pride, do a lot of homework and research myself, get clever about how to negotiate between us, but it can be done. I also had to accept we’d both come out poorer, I could do it the hard way kicking and screaming, or I could do my homework and figure out what was actually the realistic result and accept it. Only use solicitors for the precise and specific tasks you need. The more waffley and helpless you are in dealing with the arrangements and implications of your divorce yourself, and expecting a stranger to sort your life out for you, the more you’ll be charged. Christ knows how this lawyer, who is trained in advocating, negotiating etc managed to rack up £20k of fees. Appalling.

Also, in April the new no fault quickie comes in. Can you wait for that..then you don’t have to go adultery route. There’s NOTHING for you to gain from it…just more hassle ..it does not in any circumstances change the outcome of your financial settlement for instance.

@Soopermum1

I've just been through similar, I did most of the work, with a solicitor giving me advice, then I spent a lot on a decent barrister for the 2nd hearing, where we settled. She helped with the negotiations in the run up to that hearing so I think the tone was set and I got a decent outcome.

My advice? Kick off the actual divorce now, that way you have more control. You can do this yourself.

Steel yourself if you're going to do parts of the consent orders yourself. It takes a lot of time and was very draining. Ex was fully represented so I got to see what his solicitor was doing for him that I was doing for free. There were large chunks of admin and information gathering.

But don't underestimate the emotional toll of doing it yourself, it's gruelling, particularly when you're up against a professional. My barrister did compliment me on my record of taking it to that point though

I think everyone is different. I didn’t find it gruelling. I thought it was incredibly straight forward given I was unravelling 31 years of marriage. It depends on circumstances and the attitude of both parties. My stressful bit by far was selling and buying a new home..now that legally was a bloody nightmare😡

Hire the solicitor. If you start with diy and then switch, it will likely end up costing even more because it will have turned into a giant mess. I speak from experience. Just start with the solicitor, get things done right and make sure you are well represented and let someone else handle this aspect of a very stressful time in your life.

Tell him to file for the divorce and use your email / home address for now. You can easily respond yourself without a solicitor and not pay for that. Let him pay the fees as the applicant.

For finances, that could drag on for a couple of years (and again,let him apply) or more given the backlog, by which time your dcs will be older so your housing need with dcs will be shorter term in the courts view. I think you'd be lucky to spend £10k. I did it all myself by ex was fully represented and paid around £40k plus (and counting).

If I was you, and you have a good idea about your ex's finances, I'd ask a solicitor (or two) what a fair settlement would be, then without disclosing it, ask him to make you an offer. If you're happy with it, get his solicitor to draft the consent order and get a solicitor to check it for you, then sealed by the court. If not try mediation.

With your eldest doing GCSEs, you / they don't need the added stress of court. Also, don't bad mouth your ex to your dcs.

I think you both need to reconsider the child arrangements. Wouldn't you want every other weekend (possibly shared school holidays) to yourself and for dcs to have that time with their Dad? Get him / his solicitor to put in writing his suggestion. People turn extremely nasty during divorce and later down the line, he could accuse you of parental alienation.

Give CMS a call ASAP, it takes a while to get set up. Also don't accept higher child maintenance as part of the overall divorce settlement as he can go back on it in 12 months and reduce to cms basic amount.