Preparing to separate or divorce - action plan?

[pressurelikeadrip]

Longtime MNer here but have name changed.

I think I'm finally at the point where I need to separate/divorce from my DH. I'm a bit of a planner though and need to have all my ducks in a row before I go pushing the big button.

Situation: We both work full time, he earns £45k and I earn £78k. We have 2 DC, both in primary school. No family here. Married 11 years. Both on mortgage of our house. 1 car owned outright the other on finance at £350/mth. I've always been the breadwinner, he has struggled in his career, but recently got a new role which took him to his current level of earnings.

The why: We are like 2 adults looking after children in the same house. No love there at all. In fact the opposite - lots of snappy comments, lots of shouting, lots of arguing. No physical intimacy at all, not even holding hands or hugging. A lot of 'well you've had 2hrs at the gym so now I want 2hrs away from the house' type conversations. We have no family nearby, so very limited chances to go out as a couple, which probably hasn't helped. He stays up all night on his xbox and rolls out of bed showers and goes to work. It's me that gets up in the night for the DC, me that gets them fed and dressed, all household admin, school admin, etc is on me. Putting the bins out, gardening, car repairs, etc all me. Organising school holiday childcare, play dates, clubs, all me. He does do his fair share of the driving kids around, drop offs pick ups etc. Watches them to allow me to see my friends in evenings (he doesn't go out). Occassionally cooks but only if it's a pizza in an oven or similar.

His temper is awful. Never physically violent anymore (but has been in the past pre-DC). He will overreact to the smallest things. Eg last night 'please dont turn the tv over I'm watching that' has led to him stonewalling me since 7pm and refusing to engage with me at all. Once he did an emergency stop on the motorway after a day out and forced me out of the car and pretended to drive away, with the DC in the back. I had to run after him and beg to get back in. All because I'd dared to suggest he was in the wrong lane.

I need to end it. I want a better life for my DC. They deserve to see that this is not how a relationship should work. But I need to be prepared.

So what do I need to do? I have read on here before about getting paperwork and money in order but in reality what does this mean?

I am also panicking about where everyone will live. I did get some legal advice a while back and the solicitor at the time said he would petition that I'm the primary carer and so kids should live with me in family home until youngest is 18. Is that still likely? If so does he just disappear and buy or rent something then when DC are 18 I sell up and give him a share? If so does he still pay towards the mortgage?

My head is a mess.

Hello, sorry I can't help much, I was in a very similar relationship. One day I just snapped and said I wanted a divorce. While I wouldnt change that, my current situation is that I'm living upstairs in the house in one bedroom and he has the rest of the house. He won't leave and I don't have the finances to leave. I would suggest you have somewhere lined up to escape to. This is just horrible here. He is constantly shouting at me and my kids see it all.

Oh that sounds just awful for all concerned, I feel so sorry for you! Do you have an exit plan? A friend or family member you might be able to stay with?

I'm also in this situation with dreadful H. He can't think of anyone but himself and I can't wait to get shot. I'm at the point now where o do t even care if we sell the beloved family home just to have our own piece of safety. But I'm damned if I'm taking a poor deal on it.

Next week I'm going to find a solicitor and get some advice. Otherwise I'm blind of what I need to do.

@autismorarsehole

I'm also in this situation with dreadful H. He can't think of anyone but himself and I can't wait to get shot. I'm at the point now where o do t even care if we sell the beloved family home just to have our own piece of safety. But I'm damned if I'm taking a poor deal on it.

Next week I'm going to find a solicitor and get some advice. Otherwise I'm blind of what I need to do.

Sorry to hear you are also in the same boat. It’s suffocating isn’t it? For years I’ve just muddled along because it’s easier. But I’m starting to think I deserve better and the kids also need to learn that this isn’t love!

Whatever you do don't leave the house, it makes it incredibly difficult to live there again. You stay and insist he sorts something for himself.

@orangepeelsz

Whatever you do don't leave the house, it makes it incredibly difficult to live there again. You stay and insist he sorts something for himself.

Would love for this to be the end result but if the marriage has broken down would that be deemed as fair and reasonable? It’s not like he’s cheated or anything so why should he be forced out?

Get all your financial information, copies of his pay slips, bank & pension statements etc, your & dc birth certificates & passports, open a bank account in your sole name & move your salary over to it, remove anything with sentimental value to someone you trust. Ask him to leave or to sort some accommodation & leave, any problems with him and kicking off ring the police who will remove him.

@pressurelikeadrip it's fair and reasonable for either one of you to stay as you both own it. If you stand your ground it's up to him to either find somewhere else or you come to an agreement to sell and you both stay until it's sold.

Do you think he will be amicable about the house?

If you get to stay in the house with you kids you’ll be expected to pay all the mortgage and bills. On his salary he won’t be expected to contribute other than child maintenance
It simply means his share is deferred.
He has to be adequately housed Too- which includes space fir the children to stay
You need to understand all your joint assets and liabilities inc pensions
As he’s the lower earner there could be an argument to say he needs a higher %

You’ll need proper legal advice

@pressurelikeadrip

I am so sorry you are going through this. Life is too short. The only advice I could find is (assuming you are in England):
www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/how-to-separate1/

Good luck, look after yourself.

Yes, I'm sorry you're in this too. They can be just such spiteful hateful arses.

So far, I've opened a bank account he doesn't have access to, told some close friends what is going on. And I'm looking for a rental. I know all the "don't move out" advice but it's far from feeling safe and even if it ends up in court it's not like it isn't legally part mine because I had to leave, is it?!

Hugs and glasses of gin to all who are in this and have overcome this. I cannot wait til there is some end or safe space in sight that is just mine.

Wow @pressurelikeadrip , I just came on here to post something similar as I'm in a parallel situation.

My one's temper isn't quite as bad as yours but he's got really into Qanon and lots of conspiracy stuff, I can't talk to him about anything other than trivialities any more or he twists and argues about it, it's like the man I married has disappeared. The day to day stuff is just like you, and I'm also the primary breadwinner, no family nearby and it feels like he has gradually scared off all friends, on paper he does more childcare but in reality he does virtually nothing when I'm not working, and I'm worried about losing the family home.

I want to make sure I get the best outcome for my kids, so like you I want to get my ducks in a row before I do anything irreversible. I've started keeping a diary of things that worry me and of who is doing what regarding child care, I don't know if that will help from any legal perspective but it is helping me to see how bad it is, which gives me strength when I wobble!

Thanks for asking the questions that I already had, I'm so sorry that you are going through this too.

We had a long chat last night. He isn’t happy either. Listed a lot of stuff he finds annoying/upsetting from my side. But ultimately agreed to do more and to be more respectful. Said would try counselling and see where we get to over the next few months.

When I did worst case scenario with him and spoke about splitting he asked where I would live and felt quite confident he would end up with at least half custody if not more and that I’d be the one moving out. So I think any hope of him moving out is slim. Looks like if we do decide to split we have to sell up.

But for now an attempt at a reset. I’m not convinced but before any major decisions are taken I feel like I have to have tried everything to repair this.

Talking is good
As you both work full time there is a real possibility of 50:50 childcare And thus will be the starting point for discussions

Be aware as the higher earner if he gets more time with children you'll be paying him maintenance and he may get a share of your pension.
I waited until my dc were older to avoid this.
Mainly because I'd carried the whole mental load and worked incredibly hard to be successful. My dexh had enjoyed a very nice lifestyle and only ever had to have responsibility for himself.
No way was I then losing my pension to. Him

Take this time whilst h apparently tries to do better to get your ducks in a row and see a solicitor. You’ve let him know what the future could be so it’s highly likely he will get legal advice - don’t let yourself be blindsided.

It sounds like you have come to some difficult decisions. Have you thought about mediation to try and get a resolution on where the children will spend the majority of time and finances? We went to court sadly on our finances. I only worked part time, was primary carer and managed to get a mesher order. These are rare now adays and judges don't like giving them! If you can, sell the house and buy something yourself, you are on a great income. Mentally it is very hard staying in the family home. Dont forget to factor in pensions too! Financially, the split is hard and can feel unfair....but I wish you the best of luck, its worth it!

I don’t understand how he can even attempt 5050 childcare when he doesn’t even know how to book or pay for afterschool club, what days are packed lunch/PE kit, what the weekly homework is etc.

Why if I am the higher earner does he get more? I worked hard for my career, on top of 2 years out for maternity leave. He has coasted around £25k for years and only just in the past 4 months got a decent job.

After big promises last night to be more helpful in the mornings he’s just rolled out of bed and it’s fallen to me to sort the kids. Again. So I’m not holding out much hope of improvements long term if he can’t even do it the very next day!

Same boat here. I am hanging in til April when the No fault divorce rules come in, so then you don't have to put blame on him that fit under the 5 rules, if you apply for a divorce. There is no tick box, for I just can't fucking stand him. But in April, you don't need that.

Same for men who are higher earners and lose assets
As lower earner his mortgage capacity is lower but needs ( arguably) no different
He needs same housing as you ( again arguably) ie for himself and his children part of the time ( esp if 50:50)
No one is saying he will get more - they’re saying you are the higher earner and will be treated the same as men who are therefore it will be difficult to argue for you to get higher split or a mesher - most likely ( but not definitely) to keep the house you’ll have to buy out his share now to provide him a deposit and then be responsible for mortgage going forward. Or it will need to be sold and equity split in share that’s awarded

And just because he doesn’t do things now for the children does not mean he won’t if you divorce. Men can and do step up ( although some don’t) . Yes he should do it now but he doesn’t have to - because you enable him not to. That changes if you divorce ( in theory at least!)

It’s worthwhile seeking solicitor advice so you have information which may help you ultimately come to a decision

@Loopyloulou007

Same boat here. I am hanging in til April when the No fault divorce rules come in, so then you don't have to put blame on him that fit under the 5 rules, if you apply for a divorce. There is no tick box, for I just can't fucking stand him. But in April, you don't need that.

Oh that’s interesting I hadn’t realised that was coming in. That would be good as then no need to wait for 2 years or try to prove unreasonable behaviour etc. I shall keep an eye on that one.

50:50 means him being responsible for 50% before and after school care, holiday childcare, sick days etc. Crucial to make sure 50% falls fairly (not pick up after work drop back at breakfast). I suspect he would struggle to maintain the house, pay mortgage and take on 50% costs DC on his wage. It would be manageable but tight and very restrictive on his work and lifestyle.

I delayed divorcing and in the period we waited what ex said he would do and what he did do diverged. He sounds similarly selfish as my ex also didnt pull his weight earning or at home. Dont panic if he says 50:50 or to take over the house, call his bluff. He will be used to your wage and the lifestyle that buys him and wont want to make the sacrifices staying in the house with the dc would entail.

You can take someone off deeds and take over mortgage before the divorce goes through. We did this (I stayed) and it meant stability for dc but also ex was free to get mortgage (he didnt in end). Equally if he wants the house then he has to buy you out / take over mortgage / take you off deeds (dont offer him a mesher order / delayed sale). I suspect mortgage was on your wage so he may struggle to get bank to agree to him taking over mortgage as been in this job short time.

You could consider extending the mortgage term to buy him out

Delaying a sale longer term isnt good idea if house prices go up you will find 50/60% isnt enough to buy what you want in 10-15 years, better to own somethng smaller 100% and benefit from any increase in value yourself plus it will annoy you that he will benefit from any improvements you make.

If he has dc less than 50% you dont have to claim the maintenance if you can afford not to - that can help when negotiating dc time with you (which can also help with equity split as future contribution is taken into account)

I suggest you start to track what you spend on house / dc eg use an app or spreadsheet so if you do split and he wants 50% you can tell him what that means financially (which will be alot more than the CM figure)

Ex moved out, got a one bed rental and wont have dc in work hours and rarely has them to stay (they have sofabeds in lounge). So waiting to divorce has worked in my favour as had we divorced immediately he would have presented himself as main carer (he worked parttime as he was too lazy to work FT when we were together), but now its clear I am main carer and sole provider for DC (as I always was but hard to prove) and he doesnt need a house for dc.

Sometimes its better to say one of us will move out and rent for 12 months then divorce / split assets once the dust has settled. As you are not financially dependent on him you can afford to play the long game and see if he does step up / sticks to what he says.

I want to know this too @pressurelikeadrip as I feel like I am flailing around, knowing there are things I need to do, but not knowing what they are. I've seen that you've had some good answers, and I'll take note too.

Do you really have to sneak into their stuff to get access to payslips, pension details etc?!! Dh is away at the moment, so this would be the ideal time to go looking and taking copies. But is this really ok to do?? Tbh, I've already spoken to a solicitor and we discussed me giving up any claim to his pensions so I could just buy him out of the house and it would be a clean break.

I have my own bank account which my salary goes into, but we also have a joint account which we both put into for the mortgage and shopping. Child benefit also goes into the joint account. Do I need to do something with this??

Like you OP I've muddled along for years as it's easier. This all feels overwhelmingly hard. But I want my kids to see this is not the way life should be, him lying on the sofa and me standing in the kitchen to avoid him. I also feel like I have no right to tell him to move out when it's me who wants a divorce, but I want to keep the kids in their home, with me. I feel as if this is unreasonable, but solicitor says there is no scenario where I would end up having to leave as I am the primary care giver.

I've got my mind set on April for the no fault divorce, but I still have to start this seemingly impossible conversation with him, as well as working out what I need to do with all these ducks...

@19bears sorry to hear you are also in this position. I don't know about getting all the data together, I'm clueless! Slightly easier potentially for me as all money comes in/out of my own bank account (including his salary) so have that info to hand. His pension will be worth bugger all whereas mine could be good, so I presume any lawyer will try to get a piece of that for him.

I can just about afford to stay put without any money from him at all, but it would be tight. If i have to remortgage to buy him out then that would be too much for me and the only way to get him his share would be to sell up.

What is this mesher order I've seen mentioned?

Also going through this. Very complicated.

Can anyone explain the benefits of a no fault divorce? I quite want to divorce my ex and list some of the many shit things he's done.