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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

What is seen as fair

239 replies

Nitotoo · 01/02/2022 11:24

Just that really what is deemed fair in the eyes of a judge. XH and I are heading to court soon for FDR he had previously made me an offer which he deemed fair but my solicitor said starting point of 50%.

To give brief details met in 2014 after my first marriage ended and I had been made redundant. My daughter from my first marriage and I were living in rented accommodation and in receipt of full benefits. XH was in the process of buying a home to renovate and get on the housing ladder. I stayed in rental accommodation. I fell pregnant with our DS in 2015 and XH then sold his first property and bought a family home for us all to live in in his name. We moved in in Jan 2016. I was still not working due to having a baby and had struggled to find anything since being made redundant. We married in 2017 after XH took a loan to fund a wedding and a new car for me. This loan is like the house in his name only. I was able to find a part time job around this time around XH working commitments working 16 to 20 hours a week to bring in a small income. In 2018 we seperated and I left with the children to private rented accommodation with benefit top up from UC. XH stayed in his house.

Were struggling to reach an agreement as he offered 16k I keep the car and have no liability to the loan. My solicitor said 50 50 which is more like 80k with the equity and current house prices.

XH has moved his new partner into this house. Due to financial disclosure they both have a healthy salary and seem to have a good life whilst me and the children have been served section 21 and forced to move and struggle on UC as I can only work 24hrs a week when children are in school. I don't feel very secure in rented accommodation and feel I should have stayed in the house.

Would I be likely to gain an order to get back in the house? Would I be likely to get 50% I realise at a 14 month marriage and whole cohabiting relationship of 34 months it could be deemed a short marriage but there is a huge difference in our circumstances which cannot be seen as fair. If I'm forced to work more hours who picks up the childcare bills, XH? I could possibly work more hours but I doubt I could get a mortgage more than enough to buy a place I would need. My solicitor is saying to hold out for the FDR and my XH is saying the original offer he made is now off the table. My mum could potentially gift me a 6 figure sum towards a house but I would need at least 50% of the equity to top this up to what is needed. Would I then get spousal maintenance to top up the loss of UC to live off he is quite a high earner on about 70k a year (I already get cms payments however the min cms amount) would I really be liable for half of the loan that XH took in his name only? His claiming I should be however I would think he has nearly paid this off by now.

OP posts:
millymolls · 01/02/2022 19:09

Oh and not many people come out of a marriage on the same standard - that’s the problem with having to provide 2 homes not one !

AlDanvers · 01/02/2022 19:11

Op has housed the child with CMS, UC and her wage for several years.

When it come to need, its never deemed a child needs a home with a mortgage on.

Op, admits even with 140k she can't get a mortgage.

Wether CMS is enough or nor doesn't come into it.

You seem to believe the length of marriage is irrelevant. It's not.

Fuuuuuckit · 01/02/2022 19:12

The child is 6, needs to be housed for another 12 years and let's be honest, CM is not enough. The family owned a house. The OP has a right to part of it to house THEIR child.

BOTH parents need to contribute to the child's home. Op sounds hugely entitled, or at the very least isn't coming across very well.

The family, collectively, owned a home together for 14 months. OP is hoping for AT LEAST £70 grand from this marriage, or £5000 PER MONTH for each month she was married.

A short marriage is not a lifelong meal ticket.

AlDanvers · 01/02/2022 19:12

Oh an also, I don't give a shit if op has been married twice. I am divorced. My mum married 3 times. Its entirely irrelevant to me.

bonetiredwithtwins · 01/02/2022 19:17

No wonder men don't want to get married these days

Fuuuuuckit · 01/02/2022 19:18

OP said that her parents could give her in excess of £100,000 to put down as a deposit on a new home, in addition to the at least £70k from the former matrimonial home, and that STILL WON'T BE ENOUGH.

Belts/tighten, needs/wants. Op is still on uc, with a 6 year old ds and older dd. She should be encouraged to work and support both her own dc, with their father's contribution. As pp have said, rarely is it possible for anyone to leave a marriage with the same standard of living as when together.

Spousal maintenance is vanishingly improbable.

LemonTT · 01/02/2022 19:19

[quote Unknown83]@LemonTT

Oh come on! Whose child is it, the Pope's? If she had a child when cohabiting and then married I don't think we should be splitting hairs here.[/quote]
She wasn’t living with him. She had no expectations

Marchmount · 01/02/2022 19:26

If Unlucky23 is right and the OP will profit by 50% of her XH’s assets from such a short marriage having had no previous career or assets then the system is crazy. I’d be advising both my children to avoid marriage like the plague.

Marchmount · 01/02/2022 19:34

Whoops. Apologies Unknown83. For some reason I misread your user name as Unlucky23. Serves me right for multitasking. .

DrDreReturns · 01/02/2022 19:36

Your solicitor sounds useless, or he's just stringing the process out to get more money out of you.

Soontobe60 · 01/02/2022 19:42

Op, whilst you’re racking up all these legal fees you’re also reducing the amount of money you’ll have in the bank when this is all over. Say you do get awarded £16k as he offered, you owe £8k now, and this will rise perhaps by at least £2k by the time it goes to court. So that’s £10k , leaving you with £6k from your settlement.
Your parents are clearly wealthy if they have a spare £100k to gift you as a deposit for a home. Why did they not give you this when you only had 1 child and was renting?
I don’t know what the courts will award you, but I very very very much hope they don’t award you 50% of the equity, because you’ve done sod all to deserve it. Perhaps your ex could have his child living with him full time, or at least 50/50. That way, you’ll get no CM and could end up having to pay him!

Pootlepoodle · 01/02/2022 19:53

Is this a reverse? 🤔

Myhusbandisadick · 01/02/2022 20:07

I agree you sound a little granny and opportunistic tbh. £1000 is not an insubstantial amount and if both children had the same father I think you would get less because of how CMS is calculated.

You also say your mother will gift you a six figure sum. What exactly do you want? Your exh and his partner have a better lifestyle than you probably because of their careers. How would you feel if you were the higher earner and were married a short time and your ex wanted to take half of everything.

Also it does not sound right that your more recent EXH should pay for your first child. You say you're surprised and correspondence refers to "children" of the marriage but even if your solicitor said this (and I don't know whether it is right or wrong) did it not occur to you to suggest that this is unfair?

I'm sorry to sound harsh but you seem to be out to get all you can.

Original poster
Nitotoo · 01/02/2022 20:11

My parents have only just come into the money to be able to assist with a deposit and have been paying my legal fees.

I think it's come across wrong as I've just been going on the advice I've been receiving. I was told 50 50 my family even said about providing a home for our ds until he was 18. It seems this is an outdated view. I don't know anyone who has been divorced or through a financial settlement. I've been guided by my parents who have been agreeing with the solicitors view and expectations encouraging me to keep going. My solicitor is saying rented housing is insecure and benefits not a solution proved by receiving a section 21 and struggling with deposits and having to move. Yes I do resent the fact that I struggle to provide basic things and my XH doesn't and lives the high life with his new partner and have all the fun and treats with our ds.

The upshot from this is 16k is too low so I was right to not accept which was what I was having second thoughts about.

Someone said about expectations and reality and am going to try to get some alternate views as XH is very clearly not going to back down.

I didn't know the costs were high I just assumed that is solicitors costs!

In regards to 50 50 custody we've already sorted out our CAO and he doesn't have 50 50.

OP posts:
anine · 01/02/2022 20:15

Can you not buy a property with 150k plus a small mortgage? Even if it's just on a small flat?

giggly · 01/02/2022 20:37

I fail to see why your so hung up on getting a mortgage when you didn’t have one before you married. There’s definitely a feel from you that as your ex dh and his DP have a decent income each and therefore a breed standard of living then you seem to think that you deserve this as well by default.
It’s both you and both of your children’s fathers to provide equally to house and feed your dc. A combined CMS is a healthy amount. As a single parent I work full time, pay childcare and earn as much as I possibly can. My exdh has more disposable income than me but that’s the way it is.I actually think your a CF.

Unknown83 · 01/02/2022 20:40

@millymolls

She hasn’t sacrificed a career to support her husband She hasn’t traipsed around country following him She has contributed anything financially ( I know that is not necessarily important) To expect 50% of pre acquired marital Assets and spousal is quite outrageous in my view ( not a legal perspective obviously!)

Don’t see at all first child being treated as a child of this marriage
Not saying walk away with nothing but 50% ?!
I’ll definitely tell my son to not get married !

You're making a good argument against spousal maintenance but a poor one about the asset split. You can't just focus on the length of the marriage when that marriage included children because that decision included an 18 year commitment to raise a child together.

Think about it logically from a legal perspective. If you agreed to build a bridge with someone and they bought all the materials and you were going to provide all the labour, would it be fair if after a year they thought 'nah, sod that,' sold off the building materials for their own benefit and left you to deal with the client whose bridge needed to be built? That's logically what people here are saying should happen in law to the OP.

Think about other similar examples. Say a woman gives birth to a disabled child and the marriage only lasts a year. What then? Or what if the woman has a serious car accident or gets cancer after a year and the man divorces her? Circumstances in short marriages can and should alter the outcome.

Unknown83 · 01/02/2022 20:42

@AlDanvers

Op has housed the child with CMS, UC and her wage for several years.

When it come to need, its never deemed a child needs a home with a mortgage on.

Op, admits even with 140k she can't get a mortgage.

Wether CMS is enough or nor doesn't come into it.

You seem to believe the length of marriage is irrelevant. It's not.

I never said irrelevant. I said secondary to more important factors like the needs of children of the marriage and fairness to the person doing the majority of child rearing.
Unknown83 · 01/02/2022 20:43

@bonetiredwithtwins

No wonder men don't want to get married these days
Outcome would be exactly the same if OP was a man.
Unknown83 · 01/02/2022 20:44

@Fuuuuuckit

OP said that her parents could give her in excess of £100,000 to put down as a deposit on a new home, in addition to the at least £70k from the former matrimonial home, and that STILL WON'T BE ENOUGH.

Belts/tighten, needs/wants. Op is still on uc, with a 6 year old ds and older dd. She should be encouraged to work and support both her own dc, with their father's contribution. As pp have said, rarely is it possible for anyone to leave a marriage with the same standard of living as when together.

Spousal maintenance is vanishingly improbable.

I agree she should work and not get SM. Still doesn't address the asset split though.
Original poster
Nitotoo · 01/02/2022 20:46

A small 2 bedroom flat is around 220k.

My solicitor told me that rented is viewed as unsafe and not as housing needs met. My own experience since leaving has been stressful having to move and pluck a deposit out the air with kids in tow. The legal advice is received was that our housing needs are not met so I'm going by what tje legal advisors have said that's all.

OP posts:
Unknown83 · 01/02/2022 20:46

@Marchmount

If Unlucky23 is right and the OP will profit by 50% of her XH’s assets from such a short marriage having had no previous career or assets then the system is crazy. I’d be advising both my children to avoid marriage like the plague.
I'd be saying the same if she wasn't married and referring to the Children's Act 1989. Sorry I think father's owe a duty of care to their children and - unless they are providing a fair share of childcare - the people making sacrifices to raise them.
anine · 01/02/2022 20:47

If a small flat is 220k then it would be affordable with 150k plus a small mortgage.

Soontobe60 · 01/02/2022 20:57

@Nitotoo

A small 2 bedroom flat is around 220k.

My solicitor told me that rented is viewed as unsafe and not as housing needs met. My own experience since leaving has been stressful having to move and pluck a deposit out the air with kids in tow. The legal advice is received was that our housing needs are not met so I'm going by what tje legal advisors have said that's all.

As you cannot afford a mortgage your parents would be better supporting you with securing a long term rental.
ivegotthisyeah · 01/02/2022 21:00

@Nitotoo I have not read all of the thread but SM will change your benefits too cms no but SM defo. Not sure you would get it though either my ex earns that and I have three children too him and was advised only to go for it if I didn't get the settlement I wanted. I went to court for the FDR and if you can afford the fees would recommend going. The judge will recommend what he would say in a final hearing and his guidance was very valuable for me and we settled that day.
If can afford the first hearing 💯 go for it and good luck