Final Financial Agreement - provision for kids if they stay in further education?

[mrsh1807]

Hi there

Divorced and trying to agree final financial agreement. Ex keen to stop paying once kids finish 6th form however I’m concerned that if they want stay in education he should contribute - as he would have done if we were still married.

Has anyone successfully done this? Any tips?

Have 3 kids aged 11, 14 and 17. Ex semi-estranged from eldest.

I’ll lose child benefit and tax credits plus child maintenance so I won’t be able to support them alone if they stay in education.

Would hate their life choices to be dictated by ex refusing to help but 🤷🏻‍♀️

Thanks

@Justbecause88

But how much are the true costs of a child at uni on their family home? If their financial application is based off your income they will get a lot of help, add in the child getting a job (which most students do) they should be able to support themselves during term time. The only holiday they would be there for any significant amount of time is the summer. As for the costs of maintaining a house for the child to come home to, is that not on the homeowner/renter to take care of? It's not like it's a shock or happens overnight that children turn 18... surely the father also has a house to maintain where the kids could also split their time in the long summer break? I just don't see how the financial burden of an adult child at uni would require ongoing maintenance personally

Well, DS1 and his dad are pretty permanently estranged so there will be no sharing where DS1 goes. ExH has been a pretty poor dad to him, whereas he does better with the other 2 who do still spend time with him.

I suppose I'm looking ahead to try and ensure DS1 has support from both parents, as he would have done were we still together.

You seem to miss that point - if we were still a family, this whole situation would not exist as dad would still provide support without question.

@comfortablyfrumpy I wish this myth that spousal maintenance was only awarded when the ex is a high earner was completely removed. This is most certainly not the case in my situation. My husband is not even a moderately high earner, very working class, but his ex wife blackmailed him into a situation that even the judge threw out the first time.

@SW1amp I haven't missed the point of the thread, if you read all of my messages you'll see that. I've apologised to OP for derailing her thread. I agree I am bitter but that's not for you to say as you don't have any information on my situation other than what is written here.

Thank you everyone, I've made my proposal to ExH, I await his response.

This is for my children and their futures, not for me.

I get no spousal maintenance at all. I'm just trying to secure the option for each child to choose further education should they wish to, rather than potentially denying them the opportunity due to finances.

It may or may not work, but at least I'll have tried.

Your thread title says Further Education which is 6th Form whereas I think you actually mean Higher Education.

Very often children of divorced parents are better off at university than parents of still married parents (unless the RP is living with a new partner) as their maintenance loan will be based on the RP household income.

So a family with two parents earning £60k between them will get a loan of approx £4,700 per year to live on. If they live with a single parent earning for arguments sake £30k they will get £11,700 per year to live off. If the NRP then gives them money on top they end up with more than most other students. The amount they get is meant to keep them during the summer too but most get a job.

You seem to miss that point - if we were still a family, this whole situation would not exist as dad would still provide support without question.

No I didn't, I said that your child would receive a lot more financial help through uni based off your financial set up and the fact that you and her father are no longer together. A lot more then for children whose parents are still together. There is a system in place to support young people going to uni where parents can't afford to support them. If you were still a family you would be picking up a much larger financial burden because your child would only get the minimum in loans etc!
Is it right they get all those grants when the father could afford to support them? Maybe not. But there is a loophole there where student finance don't ask about Dad's income and your children profit, so if I was in your position I would be ensuring my children exploited it!

@Justbecause88

You seem to miss that point - if we were still a family, this whole situation would not exist as dad would still provide support without question.

No I didn't, I said that your child would receive a lot more financial help through uni based off your financial set up and the fact that you and her father are no longer together. A lot more then for children whose parents are still together. There is a system in place to support young people going to uni where parents can't afford to support them. If you were still a family you would be picking up a much larger financial burden because your child would only get the minimum in loans etc!
Is it right they get all those grants when the father could afford to support them? Maybe not. But there is a loophole there where student finance don't ask about Dad's income and your children profit, so if I was in your position I would be ensuring my children exploited it!

But... They may be entitled to more maintenance loan if RP is on a lower income, but it is that - a loan. Which they will have to pay back.

@comfortablyfrumpy

No, I didn't manage to. Mine has taken the view that as soon as he doesn't have to pay maintenance, he won't be paying it - despite the fact that I'm having to provide a home for them when they're back from Uni (which is quite a lot!).

I do have friends whose more reasonable/responsible/honourable exes have continued to provide some support after 6th form.

If yours is the sort who does put the children first then you have a fighting chance. If he's like mine then not a hope in hell, sadly.

As above, it's probable that yours will qualify for the maximum maintenance loan, so they should be able to support themselves fine at Uni.

I take exception to this.

@DreadingChristmasAlready

I’m going against the grain here but this thread is full of women who think they have a god given right to be paid by their ex forever! Where are your own morals and self respect? Work for yourselves and earn your own money, using adult children, capable of working, is a very poor excuse.

Ting!

@GentlemanJay I'm curious, why is it you think that BOTH parents shouldn't be supporting their children through Uni? Why should it be left to the RP unilaterally?

@DreadingChristmasAlready
I don't understand what point Yiu are making. I am, and have been in the same position as OP.
Maintenance stopped as each child turned 18, both were midway through 6th Form. How were they supposed to house themselves?
ExH has given not a penny, eldest is on a 6 year degree course. I provide everything I can when they are home in the holidays and of course throughout lockdown. I can only afford to pay for their food during term time, and their student finance barely covers London rents.
Why should their father not be expected to contribute?

Hmmm ok actually I think if the oldest is estranged he isn’t entitled to help after 18 tbh. I wouldn’t expect someone I never saw or spent time with to give me money (I myself have no contact with my bio dad and have never expected him to support me since I cut him off). I don’t think as an adult you can have your cake and eat it like that. With the others, he should continue to support them.

It might be worth asking that if he'd pay the kids something directly if they go to uni/apprenticeships after Sixth Form

I'm sorry that you've been basically accused of being a gold digger when you just want to make the kids lives a little easier while they study or train

We actually paid for my DSS's uni rent and gave him money towards uni on top.

It may be worth reminding your ex that there is an expected parental contribution when the child goes on to university. However that may backfire as the expected contribution is based on what the parent the child resides with earns.

My DH had it written in to his divorce settlement that he would continue to pay the maintenance through tertiary education but his ex did specify that it should be paid to her direct so he did. He paid £500 to her and then he also paid either halls/private rent. We hope that she did pass on some of that £500 to DSS and he knew that it was being paid and we also knew that he had a student loan too!

@Gensola

Hmmm ok actually I think if the oldest is estranged he isn’t entitled to help after 18 tbh. I wouldn’t expect someone I never saw or spent time with to give me money (I myself have no contact with my bio dad and have never expected him to support me since I cut him off). I don’t think as an adult you can have your cake and eat it like that. With the others, he should continue to support them.

Depends why surely.

Reasons can range from Dad not interested in the 17yo through to 17yo being a brat and not making an effort. My 18yo has only seen her Dad a handful of times this year because she usually works on Saturdays. (Her brother has EOW contact )

My exh supports the kids at university, he gives me spousal maintenance to cover living costs and pays dd1's fees (don't ask) directly to the university. In our agreement he also will continue spousal maintenance beyond university if dd1 cannot live independently (autism) and lives with me

But legitimately your ex could pay the kids directly for higher Ed rather than via you

Oh and with dp, he pays for his DD's higher Ed costs in full and she's decided to move in with us. Most men do pay up

My daughter is 18. She's in her third year of sixth form. She will be 19 when she leaves.

Between my ex and myself, we don't have three or four hundred pounds to give her every month if she goes to university.

I would hope her student loan (mum a low earner) and a possible bursary will pay for her education. I would also hope she got a part time job to pay her way through college. She would get valuable work and life experience by doing this.

To say I'm a bad father for not throwing loads of money at her is the point I was making.

@GentlemanJay

My daughter is 18. She's in her third year of sixth form. She will be 19 when she leaves.

Between my ex and myself, we don't have three or four hundred pounds to give her every month if she goes to university.

I would hope her student loan (mum a low earner) and a possible bursary will pay for her education. I would also hope she got a part time job to pay her way through college. She would get valuable work and life experience by doing this.

To say I'm a bad father for not throwing loads of money at her is the point I was making.

Appreciate your point. No one is saying you are.

Everyone has individual and specific circumstances.

My exH has considerably more than me. I’m just trying to establish a hopefully fair and comparatively equal level of support if my kids go on to uni rather than it all falling on me.

[quote comfortablyfrumpy]@GentlemanJay I'm curious, why is it you think that BOTH parents shouldn't be supporting their children through Uni? Why should it be left to the RP unilaterally?[/quote]
I don’t think gentlemanjay thinks that at all

But the harsh fact of life is that NO parent is obliged to support their child at university, resident parent or non resident parent.

@Gensola

Hmmm ok actually I think if the oldest is estranged he isn’t entitled to help after 18 tbh. I wouldn’t expect someone I never saw or spent time with to give me money (I myself have no contact with my bio dad and have never expected him to support me since I cut him off). I don’t think as an adult you can have your cake and eat it like that. With the others, he should continue to support them.

So if a dad wants to get out of paying for his kids, he can take a swing at them, make them feel unsafe, and then say ‘but because you don’t want to spend time with me after I hit you, I’m now off the hook paying’

Brilliant idea. Can’t see any problems with that at all…

I'm requesting this in our final divorce papers too - not in the UK but my lawyer has advised it.

I have suggested that exH pay directly to DS in the hope that this will make him accept the idea. I will still of course have costs when DS comes home but if he gets a decent amount of money from his dad and then me, hopefully he can manage his own finances.

Waiting to see how exh reacts ...

Good luck with your request - mine is going through court, so if he refuses, the judge may still rule he has to pay.

@jamaisjedors

I'm requesting this in our final divorce papers too - not in the UK but my lawyer has advised it.

I have suggested that exH pay directly to DS in the hope that this will make him accept the idea. I will still of course have costs when DS comes home but if he gets a decent amount of money from his dad and then me, hopefully he can manage his own finances.

Waiting to see how exh reacts ...

Good luck with your request - mine is going through court, so if he refuses, the judge may still rule he has to pay.

Good luck! I hope it works for you.

Proposed this to my ex yesterday, no response yet but it usually takes a few days for him to digest and reply.....

@Gensola

Hmmm ok actually I think if the oldest is estranged he isn’t entitled to help after 18 tbh. I wouldn’t expect someone I never saw or spent time with to give me money (I myself have no contact with my bio dad and have never expected him to support me since I cut him off). I don’t think as an adult you can have your cake and eat it like that. With the others, he should continue to support them.

The estrangement is due to the way ExH has treated DS1 over the years, indeed his behaviour towards DS1 was in no small part why I decided to leave.

If he stopped paying for DS1 and continued for our other 2 children that would be entirely within character to be honest, and would purely reinforce the ideas and conclusions that DS1 has reached about his dad.

I think that's desperately sad, hence why I'm trying to push for some sort of equality for all of our children.

I think sometimes the difficulty is if you're paying more than 1 parent maintenance. If you have a child each with two different partners, then the csa will split your payment between both of them. When the eldest turns 18, the whole payment goes to the other parent. So there wouldn't be any "spare" money to continue paying for the eldest.

The system would need to recognise the eldest's continued need, not just the NRP, so the payment can continue to be split