Need advice for my brother

[Whstdoyouthink]

I caught up with my DB today and with a heavy heart his decided he doesn’t see his marriage lasting much longer. (Back story), got married young and he still loves her but they are more like flat mates, don’t do anything together/haven’t had sexual relations in 18 months etc. His stayed because of his children and his soo worried about not getting to see them.

The advice needed, he works FT, salary £32k
She works about 7-10 hours a week (a sore subject but she refuses to do more)
Two children both primary school age

Outgoings-about £1700 (rent is £1200) a month (unfortunately they are in SE England)

So how does he leave and pay for a separate place (I’ve offered that we would pay for a place for 6 months). But what would his wife do long term? He doesn’t want his children living somewhere dreadful. Would she apply for benefits and then look for somewhere cheaper? It looks like HB allowance in SE is about £200 per week for a 2 bed flat

Also is he able to get 50/50 custody if he is working FT working and she isn’t? His investigated wrap around care. But will his wife use his FT work against him?

They have zero assets between them, would he have to pay her a maintenance? Or do courts look more for final separation?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, if you don’t have a lot of money how do you split up!

He needs to go and seek proper legal advice.

She will be able to claim universal credits but they will be expecting her work the equivalent of full time hours.

She will be entitled to housing benefit. But it won't cover the whole of the rent. As you have discovered

If he has 50/50 care she is less likely to be entitled to any child support.

Things will be different. That is a given. But if he feels it can't be salvaged he needs to bite the bullet. And ensure they both are able to move forward

Thanks @unicornsarereal72 very helpful, good point on universal credit. Ultimately he wants his wife to be ok because that is also where his children will live for at least 50% of the time. But her lack of motivation to work whilst they struggle from month to month has caused a lot of tension

He is divorcing her. That means she is a free agent and so is he. They have separate responsibilities for their children.

He needs to decide what he can afford and how he will parent (50% of the time or less). There isn’t any reason why a parent working FT couldn’t have their children 50% of the time as long as they have wrap care. But a decision on where the children live will be based on their needs.

His now ex wife needs to decide how she wants to live her life. She can establish what she is entitled to and where she can live.

The biggest risk for your brother is if she wants to relocate to a cheaper part of the UK. He needs to understand what his rights are in this event and what his options are.

Bottom line how she lives is only his business if it interferes with his relationship to the children or that they are neglected.

Thanks @LemonTT all her family live in the same SE town. I think it’s really unlikely she’ll leave them. Of course she could meet someone in the future and that could be different. It’s so hard for him to think ‘we’ll screw her she can live somewhere rubbish if she doesn’t want to work’ because that’s where the children will live.

He won’t be expected to pay her spousal on that salary
She’ll be expected to work or claim benefits
Re access and care for children this will be based on what us deemed in their best interest so he’ll need to be able to demonstrate that
He absolutely needs legal advice

If he still loves her, I really think he should try some relationship counselling, before splitting. As he rightly identifies, their lives will be so much worse financially, and in other ways, if they split. It is really really common for long-term marriages to go through bad patches and dry spells, especially with young children, but they can come out the other side.

It is also really really hard, as the mother of primary school aged children to find work which fits in school hours and holidays or which pays enough to cover the necessary childcare.

I don’t think it would be in the children’s best interest to have a 50/50 time split between their parents, using external childcare for their dad’s half of the week when their mum is available and has been their primary carer until now.

I understand you want to support your brother but don’t let that blind you to what is fair.

@HeddaGarbled thank you for your comments, full disclosure I am completely biased towards my brother :)

Isn’t it a bit unfair if she continued not working to be the primary carer? Isn’t a mother not working/minimal hours a luxury most can’t afford?

It’s a good point on counselling, I will raise with him. I’d hate to see their children between two homes but my DB is so sad right now.

@millymolls thank you for taking the time to write a response. It all looks quite daughting.

If claiming uc parents of school aged children under 12 are expected to work at least school hours so 25 hours a week.

It’s the “refuses to do more” line that I question. You only have your brother’s side of that story. Perhaps she applied for loads of jobs and didn’t get them. Perhaps she needed him to do some school runs or take time off in the school holidays and he refused. Perhaps she was home-schooling because the schools were shut. Perhaps one or other of the children was off sick frequently. Perhaps she’s carer for elderly parents. Perhaps she has health issues of her own. Perhaps she lost confidence in the baby years and is scared to take on any more. Perhaps he expects her to do everything at home and she can’t manage that and work outside the home as well.

Maybe none of these things are the case, but you are an external observer being fed one person’s perspective.

She will be able to claim universal credits but they will be expecting her work the equivalent of full time hours.

No they won’t. Her children are primary school age so probably only a work obligation of 25 hours.

Look she will have to adjust and find her own solution to the situation she is in. Whether that is to survive on benefits or get a job.

It’s not really his business anymore and never really was your business.

Unfortunately this is a classic example of why marriage does not really afford protection. There are no assets or wealth to cushion an adjustment. They will both have to live off their respective incomes after divorce. And she would have been better off never giving up work.

It’s the “refuses to do more” line that I question.

It’s the standard claim by men divorcing their wives. Completely pretending she wasn’t looking after his children, eliminating his childcare costs, doing his laundry, cooking his dinners and cleaning his home and enabling him to work full time commitment free all the rest of those hours and that it suited him down to a tee…. Until it didn’t.

Thanks all for your time.

Though to be honest it does look like I will have to step in and find one house whilst his wife finds another/applies for UC/housing benefit etc. I’ll do that for 6 months then hopefully enough time.

Those saying ‘it’s none of my business’…what other option, my brother moves out/can’t afford two places and he watches his wife and children be evicted and put in temporary accommodation….

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry my brother would love for his wife to be at home full time and for his job to fund that if that’s what she wanted to do. Pre pandemic they both worked full time. She was furloughed and then hasn’t wanted to return, which he understands. The issue is the maths in income/expenditure doesn’t work.

Though to be honest it does look like I will have to step in and find one house whilst his wife finds another/applies for UC/housing benefit etc

Why will you have to do this? your brother is an adult man, yes? Or is he really just so reliant on women doing his donkey work for him?

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry I came for advice Not for you to be insulting. My advice was how do people get divorced with little assets/salary which now has to be split in two ways You wouldn’t help a family member?

Your advice is fantastic ‘just let them suffer and their children’

Your advice is fantastic ‘just let them suffer and their children’

Erm, I said nothing of the sort! I asked why you would have to look for a house for your adult brother. Why isn’t he doing that?

Maybe if he could cover doing some school runs she would find it a lot easier to get a job.

Sounds like it’s him not pulling the weight.

Do you know how hard it is to get a job in school hours around here, impossible, everyone is going for them, getting a full time job is easier but he needs to be able to shoulder school runs too. When they were both full time who did the school runs? (The mum I bet).

Op how old are the kids? You say she refused to go back to work but furlough only ended six months ago - so she was working full-time, then covid happened and now she’s only doing 7-9 hours a week.

How much support did your brother give during lockdown / homeschooling? Did he pull his weight with home schooling and housework? What reasons does she give for not working full-time? From my perspective I found lockdown absolutely knackering and I feel burnt out and doing full time work would kill me. I have a teacher friend who left her job because of anxiety, perhaps his wife is suffering from anxiety?

Unless there were deeper problems before covid it seems premature to end a marriage and uproot the children if this has just arisen since the end of furlough. I think counselling would be advised.

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

Though to be honest it does look like I will have to step in and find one house whilst his wife finds another/applies for UC/housing benefit etc

Why will you have to do this? your brother is an adult man, yes? Or is he really just so reliant on women doing his donkey work for him?

Yeah. Why can’t he find a private let by himself? Even a flat share/ lodger situation (although that can be tricky with child access)?

No they both did the school runs as my brother has always had the option to work from home 2-3 days a week.

She was in retail so in actual fact the hours were very flexible because her store is open 7am through to 10pm. She just likes being at home with the children which I understand

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry he can source his place but I don’t see how I wouldn’t have to pay, unless he just stopped paying rent on his current place, then his wife and children would have to go through eviction and I wouldn’t want that. Unless you think that would be better? Is that how people have to do i.

he can source his place but I don’t see how I wouldn’t have to pay, unless he just stopped paying rent on his current place, then his wife and children would have to go through eviction and I wouldn’t want that. Unless you think that would be better? Is that how people have to do i.

So he can find his own place. You don’t need to do that for him. Just pay for it, as you say you are happy to do. Not sure why you’re projecting all this nonsense about me wanting the children to be evicted

Is the family home mortgaged or rented? If it’s in his or joint names and he rents elsewhere and doesn’t pay the rent or mortgage on the family home and she can’t pay the rent, then it will affect his credit rating. If it’s mortgaged and gets repossessed then he could lose a lot of money as they sell cheaper.

They need to talk. Both need legal advice. Because if she’s living in cloud cuckoo land thinking she can still stay there and he will pay all the bills and maintenance while she stays at home practically all day, she’s in for a shock.

She needs to know that the system will expect her to work. If you have 50/50 care of the kids nobody pays anybody money to each other. So she could be in for a shock there too.

I think he should expect to pay towards the family home while he’s also paying his own flat rent. But that’s it. I think she can ask to stay there for the kids if it’s mortgaged but don’t know the circs that’s approved. I don’t think husbands are expected to pay spousal support unless the husbands a high earner so she won’t get money from him for thst. They both need legal advice.

Perhaps if they are still on good terms they could discuss what can be done to keep both of them together, in counselling.

The issue is the maths in income/expenditure doesn’t work.

If the problem with the marriage is that they don't have sufficient income to fund the family home and household, then I don't really see why the immediate solution would be to split to an extent double the household costs.

Was he really pulling his weight? Someone whose sister expects to jump in to find him a new home, rather than just help finance it, doesn't sound as if they are do very proactive in life admin.