Need advice for my brother

[Whstdoyouthink]

I caught up with my DB today and with a heavy heart his decided he doesn’t see his marriage lasting much longer. (Back story), got married young and he still loves her but they are more like flat mates, don’t do anything together/haven’t had sexual relations in 18 months etc. His stayed because of his children and his soo worried about not getting to see them.

The advice needed, he works FT, salary £32k
She works about 7-10 hours a week (a sore subject but she refuses to do more)
Two children both primary school age

Outgoings-about £1700 (rent is £1200) a month (unfortunately they are in SE England)

So how does he leave and pay for a separate place (I’ve offered that we would pay for a place for 6 months). But what would his wife do long term? He doesn’t want his children living somewhere dreadful. Would she apply for benefits and then look for somewhere cheaper? It looks like HB allowance in SE is about £200 per week for a 2 bed flat

Also is he able to get 50/50 custody if he is working FT working and she isn’t? His investigated wrap around care. But will his wife use his FT work against him?

They have zero assets between them, would he have to pay her a maintenance? Or do courts look more for final separation?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, if you don’t have a lot of money how do you split up!

Poster i think the marriage can be saved. Fact is if they split its going to be so much worse all round for everyone as thete is not enough money to go round

I think you should advise your brother to calmly get to the bottom of why she wont go back to work...maybe the home chores load is too high?. He needs to find a way to communicate with her. If this is the only reason he wants to divorce then it can be salvaged. Maybe you can help by possibly paying for marriage counselling?. This family would be better off staying together unless there are other factors.

I've only just noticed the point about no sex in 18 months so roughly about the time lockdown started.

Op, what efforts has he made to save the marriage? Obviously we all have the right to end marriages when we're unhappy but I think the last 18 months have been exceptional and the pressure of being at home has probably made many marriages less stable (just like when there are high divorce rates after Christmas!) I think that before offering to help him with finding a flat you should be offering to help pay for counselling.

If he separates with a view to divorce he should agree with her how that tenancy will end. It’s her choice whether she takes it on. He shouldn’t be paying her rent after that but should meet any obligations under the tenancy. It might be that he needs to stay whilst the tenancy runs it course.

Long term he shouldn’t be financially entangled with her - it could cause problems for benefits claims.

He will need to decide what child maintenance he gives her, at CMS level or above. That won’t impact on her benefits.

Is there a reason you and your brother aren’t willing to let this adult be an adult.

Thanks for all the helpful advice. I will push him on counselling and it’s a good point in the lockdown. He would love to make his marriage work and you’ve really made me reflect that I am going to push him again

@LemonTT he is an adult but one that has sort advice. I am absolutely ok with people having support structures and being able to help. If more men were able to chat on feelings and ask for help there wouldn’t be such high depression and suicide. Please never call someone a child because they reach out for support.

You brother doesn't exactly sound like a dream dh tbh. Especially not being able to think for himself and seek legal advice. Saying one one hand he wants to help his 'ex' wife then on the other stuff her makes no sense.

I gave up work only when my dh failed to pull his weight at home, all cleaning all schooling, childcare fell to me. Obviously not a recommended route but if you aren't earning enough a lot of women do end up doing this because it becomes too much. I'd tell your brother to seek legal advice and go from there. If the mum ends up on benefits then as others have said that isn't really your brothers concern anymore because he has chosen to move on.

Acting like he's so trapped whilst simultaneously having his sister go about around ensuring he's got the 'best' deal doesn't paint him in the best light. Unless he's not an adult yet? In which case fair enough.

If this originated mostly around when lock down started I'd be suggesting he tries counseling first and offering to help fund that if needed.

With the issue about not affording two lots of rent you can legally seperate while living under one roof. If there's no abuse this could be an option to consider. When you say no assets do they have any cars or pensions? If they do these assets need to be considered in a divorce.

He would love to make his marriage work and you’ve really made me reflect that I am going to push him again

Tbh I think you need to take a huge step back!

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry sure great advice, next time he asks me for help I’ll say ‘sorry I need to take a step back’ can’t help

Why do you think that’s bad advice? You do need to step back. You’re way too involved already. Tbh it almost sounds like you’re rubbing your hands with glee at the idea of him leaving his wife and can’t do enough to expedite it.

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry your a little invested in this. I would hate for them to split

Feel free to step away now

I’m not sure what you mean by invested, you ask for advice and people respond, that’s how this works. You won’t always like the advice. That doesn’t mean anyone is invested. Projection maybe.

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry thanks. I’ve noted the advice you have given me which is when my brother asks for help I step away.

Your right everyone can give advice and appreciate your thoughts.

[quote Whstdoyouthink]@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry sure great advice, next time he asks me for help I’ll say ‘sorry I need to take a step back’ can’t help[/quote]
Op you sound like a very caring sister. In my culture we believe no man is an island and we try to help our family during tough times. Please do what you can to encourage your brother to communicate and compromise to make his marriage work. Hopefully they will get through this tough patch

@femfemlicious thank you very much. It’s all very sad

I can't believe what a hard time you're getting OP for asking for advice on how best to help a sibling.

I think marriage counselling is definitely worth them trying if they want to. Does his wife know that he is so unhappy he's considering divorce? It has been such a hard couple of years for many people that she may just think they are having a rough patch, if he hasn't had an open discussion with her about how he is feeling.

I think it's admirable that ultimately, if the marriage can't be salvaged, you want to help him financially so that your nieces/ nephews have some stability and are not forced into poverty. But as you say it needs to be clear to all involved that you funding this is a temporary solution while they all adjust and your brother's wife will then need to find work to support herself.

If your brother moves out, his wife will be entitled to UC for herself and kids. The rental element she would be entitled to will depend on how many kids, their ages and if each child is entitled to a room of their own. She will only get rent for the rooms she legally needs, so if its a huge house with a spare room or two then she wont get the full amount. . If its a private rental, there is a cap on what rental she will be entitled to. This varies depending on the area. This can be checked by looking at the Local Housing Authority rental amount applicable. Type in LHA, the postcode, and the bedroom eligibility. It may well be that she will get most or even all of her rent paid. If there is a shortfall in rent, here in Scotland, you can apply for a discretionary housing payment from the local Council to make up the difference.Here it is generally awarded in three month segments, then you need to extend your application if circumstances remain unchanged. Not sure if that is available in England though. Failing that, then perhaps your brother could help with that gap. This will only work if your brother takes himself off the lease though. If he doesn't, she will only get her 'half' of the rent. The online benefit calculators are good for this so he can always do a little research that way.
As for the work she is required to do, again this will depend on the ages of the children. She will be contacted by a work coach to assess her skill set and given help and encouragement to find suitable employment. As long as she tows the line and responds proactively, she will not be penalised for not having a job. Childcare is also paid for, up to 80%, paid in arrears.
UC is actually ok for single parents with kids, you can work quite a bit and still get help with rent etc, depending of course on the individual circumstances of the family. I hope this all gets resolved, its terribly sad, been through it myself. Best of luck.

It’s not your brother who you should stand back from. It’s the idea that you and he should be managing her life. If he leaves her, he needs to step away from her life choices.

If his concern is that she needs more money he can pay more child support. CMS is a basic benchmark not a ceiling. But he shouldn’t pay her bills or run her life. She will be a free agent.

I wouldn't encourage them to get back together tbh.

They are financially struggling and she wont return back to work properly.

If it was the other way round people would be telling the women to leave him.

In fact my best friend is in the situation but in the reverse. She is the main bread winner and her husband does a few hours a week here and there and contributes practically nothing to the house. She is on the verge of a nervous break down but wont leave because of the effect she thinks it will have on the kids.

OP he needs to be honest with her about how he is feeling and what is the best way forward. This might be catalyst that makes her realise he needs her to contribute.

Working out what she will be due in money before he has even told her is a bit off. I would just be transparent about the whole thing and let it take its course naturally. Also he has to take in to account she will have quite a long wait (maybe six weeks) before any payments come in so he will have to be prepared to financially support her whilst tis is going through.

Also does her really want 50/50 of the kids or is that to just stop having to pay her CM? My ex wanted this until he realised that actually it was massive faff and it was more easier to pick them up at weekends.

Op if your brother wants to leave his wife then he needs to be a big boy and do it himself. What his ex wife does after is her business none of yours or your brothers. I was in a very similar situation and my ex told everyone I didn't work enough or bring in enough money. I ran my own business working full time and was doing all of the childcare while he was off most weekends and evenings living a single man's life. The most insulting part of the separation was when he and his family kept telling me what benefits I would be entitled to and to think about where I was going to live, as he couldn't possibly live with his mum forever in her spare bedroom. Your brother has to learn the hard way, the realities of leaving a marriage and not working on it.

Going against the grain but I think she's taking the piss only working 10 hours a week. No wonder he's pissed off. Maintaining a SAHP is only viable when there's enough money. He's clearly struggling. Of course she wants to be at home, who wouldn't? But it's completely unacceptable to have an unhappy working parent take on the whole burden of the house.

Assuming you are in England this sums up the various things your birthed and wife will have to consider/sort out

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/how-to-separate1/

(If in Scotland or Wales go in to citizensadvice.org and select the relevant country for bespoke advice)

@HeddaGarbled

It’s the “refuses to do more” line that I question. You only have your brother’s side of that story. Perhaps she applied for loads of jobs and didn’t get them. Perhaps she needed him to do some school runs or take time off in the school holidays and he refused. Perhaps she was home-schooling because the schools were shut. Perhaps one or other of the children was off sick frequently. Perhaps she’s carer for elderly parents. Perhaps she has health issues of her own. Perhaps she lost confidence in the baby years and is scared to take on any more. Perhaps he expects her to do everything at home and she can’t manage that and work outside the home as well.

Maybe none of these things are the case, but you are an external observer being fed one person’s perspective.

My ex didn't want to do more. She did 16 hours a week although the children were coming to the end of high school. She had always done 16 hours a week since going back to work after they were born.

Her work would have had her go back full time in an instant. She just didn't want to.