Child Access - What to do for the best?

justustwoandmoo · 2021-10-17T20:05:48+00:00

Hello all, I am after some advice please. My partner and I have been together for about a year. He separated from his ex in 2018 and has two kids who are now 5 and 7. His ex is nice enough but seems to have always just dictated how much he can see the kids. He's now at every other weekend (Friday and sat night only) and overnight on a Tuesday. He finds it hard going a week without them so asked to see them on the Thursday every other week but was told no due to routine. He then asked if he could have them for 3 nights (Friday to Monday) on his weekend but again got a no. My partner is now thinking that the only thing he can do is contact a solicitor. It seems such a shame though. Does anyone have any experience of this and can suggest what to do?

RedHelenB · 17/10/2021 21:47

He as pretty standard contact tbh as the NRP. Does he pay much in the way of CM because there'll obviously go down if he has an extra night and that might be on his ex's mind?

Pebbledashery · 17/10/2021 21:55

Was just going to say this is pretty standard tbh, every other weekend with once in the week.
At a compromise there is no reason why she can't agree to Friday to Sunday night at the very least.
Kids need stability with contact arrangements. I think he should maybe ask for the Friday to Sunday and if she refuses then he would need to seek the help of mediation.. He'd have to go through mediation first before the matter going to court.

auberJohn · 18/10/2021 00:59

Hello, contrary to what others have said, child arrangements are pretty varied.

Simply put, the children have the right to a meaningful relationship with both parents, unless there are welfare concerns.

I am guessing that your partner has an informal arrangement with his ex. If this is the case, he should consider going to mediation to negotiate with his ex an arrangement that works for everyone. My arrangement is as follows: The children live with me from Friday to Tues morning week 1, and Monday overnight as well as a Thursday dinner week 2.

If his ex refuses to attend mediation or at mediation refuses to negotiate, then your partner can apply to the family court for a child arrangement order (CAO) putting forward a timetable that he is confident will strengthen the relationship, benefit the children, whilst not disrupting routine. This is a legally binding agreement.

A word of warning about applying for a child arrangement order - it is a slow stressful process that often brings the worst out of parents.

Hapoydayz · 18/10/2021 01:03

It might be hard for him but just think first how much back and forth you are expecting a child to do

Original poster

justustwoandmoo · 18/10/2021 04:15

Thank you for all of the responses. My partner does pay CMS and has said that he's willing to continue paying the same amount even if he does get more time with the kids.

I am quite surprised that 4 nights in 14 seems a fair split tbh. When my husband and I split we went 50/50. It never even occurred to me that I could dictate how often he could see his daughter.

I think it's just frustrating as he's such a good, hands on dad and all he's asking for is 3 nights every other weekend and one night in the week. He's not even allowed to see them on Christmas Day 🤔.

I'll suggest he tries mediation as a first step and see what happens.

Thank you all!!

OP posts:

starrynight21 · 18/10/2021 04:23

He'd be better off with mediation. The Christmas Day thing sounds awful - I know when I was in that situation we always had an agreement for festive days. One parent would have them overnight on Christmas Eve, gifts and breakfast in the morning, then they'd to to the other parent at about midday , and they'd have Christmas lunch and dinner ( and more gifts !) . Same with their birthday, Easter etc. And they always went to the appropriate parent on Mothers / Fathers Day. Your partner needs to see the mediation people and get this sorted . Good luck.

Original poster

justustwoandmoo · 18/10/2021 04:25

@auberJohn

Hello, contrary to what others have said, child arrangements are pretty varied.

Simply put, the children have the right to a meaningful relationship with both parents, unless there are welfare concerns.

I am guessing that your partner has an informal arrangement with his ex. If this is the case, he should consider going to mediation to negotiate with his ex an arrangement that works for everyone. My arrangement is as follows: The children live with me from Friday to Tues morning week 1, and Monday overnight as well as a Thursday dinner week 2.

If his ex refuses to attend mediation or at mediation refuses to negotiate, then your partner can apply to the family court for a child arrangement order (CAO) putting forward a timetable that he is confident will strengthen the relationship, benefit the children, whilst not disrupting routine. This is a legally binding agreement.

A word of warning about applying for a child arrangement order - it is a slow stressful process that often brings the worst out of parents.

Hello. Yes at the moment there is an informal arrangement in place although he's never really had much of a say but more gets told what he can have.

The last thing he wants is to put the kids through any hassle but I do wonder if he needs something more formal in place to protect any future changes his ex might make x

OP posts:

Nat6999 · 18/10/2021 04:25

My ex got EOW & two nights a week from school returning home for 6.30pm, what your dp is getting is reasonable. Don't forget the arrangements are not what is best for the parents, but what is best for the children. As children get older they will probably have more things they will want to do after school or see friends at home, it isn't fair to want them to stop doing things so they can visit a parent.

BiteySpears · 18/10/2021 05:16

It’s nothing to do with it being ‘fair’ on the parents. It’s what’s best for the children. 50:50 shared care is often very hard for such young children.

MissJeanBrodiesprime · 18/10/2021 05:50

As PP’s have said it’s about what is best for the children, consider the fact that it can be very unsettling for them to have so much to-ing and fro-ing. What your dp gets is pretty reasonable and normal and going through mediation and then potentially the courts is absolutely horrendous for the DC’s.

madisonbridges · 18/10/2021 06:07

If, as posters say, it can be unsettling on the children, as there are no problems with his parenting, why not suggest applying to have them the majority of the time and the mother can have them 4 days out of 14. Seems fair.

MissJeanBrodiesprime · 18/10/2021 07:30

@madisonbridges

If, as posters say, it can be unsettling on the children, as there are no problems with his parenting, why not suggest applying to have them the majority of the time and the mother can have them 4 days out of 14. Seems fair.

Oh yes that won’t create acrimony at all, just what the kids their parents

MissJeanBrodiesprime · 18/10/2021 07:31

*need from

ElfDragon · 18/10/2021 07:42

How d are the children?

Has anyone asked them what they want?

My ex has EOW from Friday after school to Sunday 6pm, and one night in the week each week. Birthdays/Christmas/school holidays are split - I would be happy with 50/50 school holidays, but he doesn’t want that. Christmas alternates each year, birthdays also (but with input from the dc on what they want)

Mine would not want to go to his for more time each week/weekend )and have said so). In fact, 2 of them want to spend less time there, and the third fluctuates between being ok with the amount of time, and wanting to spend less time line his sisters (but his age means he can’t quite make that decision for himself, and so I encourage him to go for the agreed times)

What the children want is more important than what your dp wants. Even though they are young (have just checked OP), it is important to encourage them to talk about what they want and need, and for their parents to listen to what they say.

Original poster

justustwoandmoo · 18/10/2021 07:44

This whole thing completely baffles me. It literally blows my brain. Why on earth would you only want a child to see their father for 3 nights in 14. Adding another night to the weekend (Friday to Monday) adds no more going back and fore that all. I completely agree that it should be what's best for the kids but why does that automatically mean the mother having majority access.

The real sad thing in all this is that his eldest is now starting to ask questions about why she can't see him more. What a mess.

Thank you for all of your responses x

OP posts:

Quartz2208 · 18/10/2021 07:47

It is tricky because I actually think what he is asking for (5/6 out of 14) is a fair ask and should and would I think be given plus a compromise on Christmas.

How to get it though I think is tricky here. Going down the solicitor and court route is one way but is a potentially difficult route and one he needs to be sure on.

I do think mediation might be the answer. And also for your own sake I would take a step back and allow him to do all of this

MerryMarigold · 18/10/2021 07:50

OP not sure why you're getting a bit of a hard time. Ex sounds difficult if she's blocking Christmas. Was the split difficult eg. He cheated or she didn't want him to leave?

What the PP said about mediation seems like a good way forward. It shows Ex that your DP is serious about his kids and is willing to go to lengths to maintain boundaries and put things in place.

Original poster

justustwoandmoo · 18/10/2021 07:51

@ElfDragon

How d are the children?

Has anyone asked them what they want?

My ex has EOW from Friday after school to Sunday 6pm, and one night in the week each week. Birthdays/Christmas/school holidays are split - I would be happy with 50/50 school holidays, but he doesn’t want that. Christmas alternates each year, birthdays also (but with input from the dc on what they want)

Mine would not want to go to his for more time each week/weekend )and have said so). In fact, 2 of them want to spend less time there, and the third fluctuates between being ok with the amount of time, and wanting to spend less time line his sisters (but his age means he can’t quite make that decision for himself, and so I encourage him to go for the agreed times)

What the children want is more important than what your dp wants. Even though they are young (have just checked OP), it is important to encourage them to talk about what they want and need, and for their parents to listen to what they say.

Yes you are right in it being important to ask what they want. The youngest is in her own happy little world and says nothing about it really (she's 5). The eldest has started asking why she can't see him more and suggested the other day that they just do one week in one house and the next week in the other. That would never happen of course but it's sad that she gets so little time with her dad.

My parterre keeps saying that he's scared they'll grow up thinking he didn't try hard enough to see them more. It's just not with causing bad feeling and pain though.

I think perhaps he'll try mediation to get the weekend to 3 nights. Fingers crossed xx

OP posts:

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 18/10/2021 07:53

He can't go to court without going to mediation first anyway.

auberJohn · 18/10/2021 07:55

@justustwoandmoo

This whole thing completely baffles me. It literally blows my brain. Why on earth would you only want a child to see their father for 3 nights in 14. Adding another night to the weekend (Friday to Monday) adds no more going back and fore that all. I completely agree that it should be what's best for the kids but why does that automatically mean the mother having majority access.

The real sad thing in all this is that his eldest is now starting to ask questions about why she can't see him more. What a mess.

Thank you for all of your responses x

3 in 14 is very sad. It means that the child will not get the opportunity to learn from the father and the father will never have the chance to make a meaningful contribution to his child's development.

Children are resilient and adapt easily. They "to and fro" to school every day. An additional overnight extending the short weekend will not hurt anyone.

Good luck to your partner.

Original poster

justustwoandmoo · 18/10/2021 07:58

@MerryMarigold

OP not sure why you're getting a bit of a hard time. Ex sounds difficult if she's blocking Christmas. Was the split difficult eg. He cheated or she didn't want him to leave?

What the PP said about mediation seems like a good way forward. It shows Ex that your DP is serious about his kids and is willing to go to lengths to maintain boundaries and put things in place.

No I think she was glad to have him leave....😂. They just drifted apart and tbh seem to get on quite well in that they text about the kids around school stuff etc. This is why I think it would be such a shame for any big problems to be created here. She just says that the kids are her whole world and doesn't know what to do without them. I get that completely. I felt a huge void when my daughter first started going to her dads xx

OP posts:

madisonbridges · 18/10/2021 14:33

@MissJeanBrodiesprime. But a father is just as good as a parent as a mother, so if the mother thinks 4 days a fortnight is enough contact and the father thinks it isn't, why would swapping the arrangement cause acrimony? The mother has got the same ample visitation she allows the father.

@justustwoandmoo, if your partner can manage residence without your help, I don't see why he shouldn't go for 50:50. It's fantastic that he and his ex have a good relationship, but surely she can realise that he loves his children just as much as her and she needs to loosen up the access for her children's sake.

MissJeanBrodiesprime · 18/10/2021 14:50

@madisonbridges I’m not saying the father isn’t as good at looking after the DC’s as the mother, I have no idea actually I don’t know them, but I wouldn’t recommend a father going down the route you’re suggesting just to make a point, rather that he puts forward a sensible solution that genuinely puts his kids first, and doesn’t create needless animosity.

It’s not about being fair to the parents, it should be 100% about the children, and obviously needs to work, practically, for the parents too.
The idea of extending their weekend with OP and their father sounds sensible especially if they are asking to see him more.

Caramellatteplease · 18/10/2021 15:00

Two parents getting on well is infinitely more valuable than A few extra nights with their dad.

I dont know any child doing 50/50 who wasnt damaged by the experience unless their parents naturally fell into that arrangement.

madisonbridges · 18/10/2021 15:12

@MissJeanBrodiesprime I guess it's me that's suggesting it to make a point. The point is the vast majority of people on here are saying the mother should have the greater part of custody and the father should just be grateful for anything. The ex here isn't suggesting she has the children 10 days because it's better for the children, she thinks she should have them that long because it's better for her. @Caramellatteplease says 50:50 is not damaging to the children if both parents agree. Then why can't the ex be less selfish and agree. Why do posters think that this is the norm and the DP should just suck it up, whereas if this were the other way round and the father automatically got 10 days, posters on here would be up in arms?