Making a financial agreement ourselves –what should I ask for based on this?

[Sprwtu]

I am doing this myself without any support and would really appreciate some advice.

I've had a consultation with a solicitor and will be instructing her to draw up a consent order. To save money we want to agree on terms ourselves and then get it documented in a legally binding way. STBXH says he'll agree to anything reasonable. I've never lived alone and this is all completely new and extremely scary to me. Can you tell me a reasonable amount to ask for? Two children, both teenagers.

Married twenty years. I haven't worked throughout it (not my choice but very against my wishes – abuse/control) except starting from two years ago and now in low paying job. These are the details

His annual income - 132,000
His pensions - 94,000
My annual income - 18,000
My pensions - 0
Equity in house (his name) - 270,000
Savings - 0

We have separate accounts. He gives me 800+ per month for food, children's activities and going out etc and takes care of everything else like bills and mortgage etc.

Please give me an idea of what might be a suitable settlement. My lawyer said that she cannot advise me with this kind of basic detail and needs full information through form E (but that process costs a lot more). When I ask him he won't say anything, just says it's up to me to tell him numbers and he'll agree if it sounds OK (Divorce initiated by me) and I have NO IDEA

How old are you both

Meant to add

"and how old are the kids"

If your solicitor can't estimate given those details I don't see why anyone here could. Pay for your solicitors advice. Two things I'd point out - with a salary of £132k his pension (you need the CETV not the sum of his contribution) will be a fuck of a lot higher than that stated. Secondly he's abusive. Do you really think he'll roll over and agree everything you want?

You may want to consider a pensions actuary to calculate the true cost of pensions

oh yeah, he's lying about the pension :)

You need to listen to your solicitor because your stbxh is not going to give you anything that benefits you especially given he has controlled you for 20 years. Although it is expensive the solicitor can get you the best deal for you. Good luck @Sprwtu

OP, why are you doing this yourself to save money?? Because it sounds to me like something he’s persuaded you to do, to save himself money. As a PP has said, he is very clearly bullshitting about his pension - and if your solicitor can’t work it out from these figures (that he’s probably lying about) how can we?

Seriously, you are designing the rest of your life here - if you wouldn’t build your own conservatory, why are you trying to lawyer your own divorce (from a prick)?

If you haven’t worked for 2O years he will have to hand over a huge chunk of cash - it’s essential he does, or you will be a church mouse, but he doesn’t want to.

The only person saving money from this is him - you and the kids are being shafted.

Pay the lawyer, and get a proper deal so you can live the rest of your life. Don’t discuss it with him - just talk to her - she’ll take her fee out of your settlement. (Ideally talk to 3 divorce specialist lawyers to get the one you like.)

He's never going to agree to what you suggest. I would want at least 50% of equity and actual pension value plus a commitment to support the kids through uni. However given you are on a fairly low wage you might need more than 50% of the equity to house you and the kids. I can't see a controlling man agreeing to that.

We are 47 and 49. Kids 18 and 15. I can believe that about the pension actually. He's terrible with money and is always short on cash. He doesn't have any vices like gambling or drinking, just likes to show off. Loans, credit cards, remortgage etc. The rest of his family is the same.

Because there's so little in the pot (for his income we should have had a bit more) I thought I should try this and if we don't agree THEN consult a lawyer to go the whole way with Form E. But it looks like people think I should skip that and go directly.

He already said he's happy to pay 50% of house equity and 50% of his pensions when we sell the house. Sorry I should have mentioned that actually. I know I'm probably entitled to more but I just want to get away and I don't mind a much smaller place. What I want to know is how much money to get from him to live on, until the youngest has finished university and we move out. He's happy for the children and I to stay in the house until they leave.

I'd be asking for 50% of all assets plus spousal support of £1000 a month for 10 years.

Just work out what you realistically need for running the house plus contingency and ask for that, I presume you are talking about spousal maintenance.

It's all very well for him to say what he'll do in few years time, but what that actually does is buy him space to squirrel money away to give him an advantage.

I'd suggest the transfer of pension funds happens ASAP and I assume you already have Matrimonial Homes Rights lodged with the Land Registry if the house is in his sole name? Make sure you inform the mortgage lender of your situation as well.

We had a flexible offset mortgage and XH managed to pay off nearly 10k of personal debt whilst the divorce was going through. I realised and negotionated an 55/45 split to balance that.

Bear in mind that with kids you could claim upto 70% of marital assets. Given the ages of your kids that might be harder but at least use the fact as a reminder to yourself that asking for a minimum of 50% is in no way unreasonable.

Really, to save money you are DIY? I did my divorce myself but we had similar (low) incomes and assets. Because there is a massive difference in your incomes and your ex has a high income I would seek advice from a solicitor in your situation. At the very least you need to know the CETV value of his pension before coming up with figures. Best wishes.

50%! Yeah I bet he's suggesting that. Seriously don't be an idiot. You're trying to save £5k by throwing away £100k.

As I and others have said the pension isn't how much he has paid in. There's a specific calculation used to ascertain its value. That's what needs to be used. Spoiler - it'll be significantly higher than the £92k he's paid in. A judge probably wouldn't even sign the order if you hadn't used that, even if you'd been foolish enough to agree based on his figures.

Do form E. It will be worth it. He's trying to chance that you won't ask for what you are entitled to.
This is the rest of your life and the pension pot especially needs to be looked at professionally.

I know its hard and you just want it done and dusted but you've done the hardest part and initiated the divorce

50% of assets plus cms (as per calculator) plus spousal maintenance of £1500 for 10 years and it's reassessment at that point - extending to retirement if your income isn't at least 1/3 of his. This is similar to my agreement. If I remarry spousal stops btw

You can ask for spousal support but to be honest it’s unlikely you’d get it, maybe for a short one or two year period, judges prefer clean breaks now and don’t go for the life time meal ticket any more unless you can’t retrain or are nearing retirement. The kids are teens so you don’t need to stay at home.

You would I think maybe get a little more than 50 percent, but it’s hard to give any guarantees over that, it’s sadly easy to say you didn’t work because of him, in reality he will likely say you didn’t because you didn’t wish to. Unless there is proof, then the judge will simply take the facts.

I do think you need a solicitor to help you.

Sorry just seen one child is an adult. However according to cms he’s under paying, child maintenance should be 934 a month, but it would only be till the child turns 18.

How much is the cheapest house in your area you and the DC could live in ?

Why are you trying to negotiate yourself with a controlling and abusive man? Do it all through the solicitor.

With that kind of gigantic income difference, and relatively modest assets, I would add another vote to «get the solicitor to do it, even if it’s more expensive.»

The solicitor will have a better idea of what is considered fair in the courts, and ideas about how to deal with your income disparity. With your low income plus having not worked for so long, you are financially vulnerable. You probably were the primary caregiver for your common children, and you probably enabled him to get his income to where it is. Plus, if he is «controlling» then he may well have hidden assets.

I'm surprised his pension is so low, that's about the same as mine and I'm on a fraction of his salary, we're similar ages.

Spousal support isn't really a thing in the UK anymore.

I would definitely get a solicitor to support you through this. I think you're trying to save money in the short term but you'll regret it long term.

you probably enabled him to get his income to where it is

That’s a hard argument to take, because schools and child care exist and he could easily have afforded both.

@Bluntness100 That’s a hard argument to take, because schools and child care exist and he could easily have afforded both

It might be a poor argument under UK law, hence the solicitor; this I don’t know.

But speaking from experience as a high earner, there’s no way we could have hired somebody to take on and organise everything that was needed for children (including when they are ill) household organisatipn and tasks, etc., and had my DP not taken the vast majority of that on, my overall earnings power would have been lower.

@Sprwtu having reread your first post, whereby your partner ‘gives’ you 10k/year and keeps all the rest of what is left after mortgage and bills, I strongly suspect that there are hidden assets in his name or possession, and that’s the real reason he wants an agreement without a solicitor or a Form E. I believe that form would require your partner to formally assert that he has fully disclosed, and if it’s incomplete you might have a case to go back with a further claim. This link I found on google might help.
www.awdlaw.co.uk/what-is-the-importance-of-financial-disclosure-and-why-do-i-need-to-provide-it/

It may be impossible, in practice, for you to get full disclosure or a fair share. But it could be worth a try. If you can find a fair-minded solicitor to represent and advise you and only you, then you will have a better chance.