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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Would a solicitor do much better for me than ex-H's calculations?

57 replies

M0n3y · 09/03/2021 12:55

Really sorry this is so long, thanks for reading! Really trying to give as much essential info as possible.

Ex-husband-to-be and I are at the early stages of separating our finances.

I'm moving out in three weeks to stay with our two children (10, nearly 6) at my mother's, hundreds of miles across the country (from Scotland to the south of England), until I can find my feet and move out. Ex has a new job an hour away from my mother's town, so he will see the children probably EOW and maybe midweek sometimes.

The relationship not been great for the last few years (normal, ish, imo, with young kids taking a toll), but it is his choice to split, if that has any bearing).

To clarify:
He is Scottish. I am English. I'm not sure if the law differs between England and Scotland in such cases.
We have lived in Scotland for the last eight years. We married up here in 2009, though we're living in London at that time.

He has composed what he thinks is the way we should split our finances, and what he will pay in maintenance.
I think he's doing me (and consequently our children) a huge disservice, but is a solicitor likely to agree with him or me? Bottom line, any money he and I spend on solicitors is only going to eat into our finances, which ultimately both of us will use to support our children, so I'd rather not fork out on wasting money on a solicitor when it could go on our children.

I will put his calculations in the next post, after explaining our circumstances here.

When we met, I had a much more valuable property in London than he did in Scotland, which I'd worked hard to overpay the mortgage on from the very start. So when he came along, I was in a decent, independent financial position, and it put him in a favourable position because he moved in to my house when we married.

He sold his house some time later and put his equity into helping pay off my mortgage. He said this was £50k, I can't recall if it was this amount. I continued paying off my mortgage until a year after our first child was born (I was still getting paid a full year of maternity pay, at full pay). They were then making redundancies before I was set to return, so I took the redundancy payoff (about £25k) which completed my mortgage. So, we were mortgage free in a property in my name, based on my initial investment and overpayments, by late 2011/early 2012.
I have been a sahm since. He wanted the freedom to move jobs so I became a trailing spouse, giving up my earning capacity security because I trusted him not to do this to me, and we both preferred to have our child/ren at home rather than pay others to look after them. We were also in the reasonable position to live on one salary because of MY property enabling us to live mortgage-free.
We then jointly decided to home educate the children. This means I have been out of the job scene for over ten years.
He now wants me to put the children in school (not, imo, in their best interests, but because he wants me to earn money), and he thinks I can just sail into a job. Even if I wanted to put them in school, that means I am the one doing the limiting school week hours, plus I've taken a hit on my earning power, whereas he has not.
So his offering of £900 a month (a smidge over what he says the child maintenance calculator suggests), is not really factoring in that I may be unemployed for months or possibly much longer, and that I can't work full time because I'd be the one working around the school run/after school activities.
My choice would be to find something I can do part time from home (I'm already speaking with wahm friends who earn ok doing online sales type stuff) whilst I continue to home educate the children.
Neither child wants to go to school, btw.

His £900 a month also means if I don't manage to find a job as he wants me to, I'm stuck at my mother's for longer, in a less than ideal situation (I'll have to share a room with my daughter). So it's definitely not a long-term solution, nor, in the interim, should he feel he can pay minimally whilst I sponge off my mother.

I sold my property in SW London in 2014 for £310k.
He sold his property in a run down Scottish town, c2009, taking 50k profit. House prices as they are in his home town he wouldn't be looking at much more profit had he kept his Scottish property. As such, I feel he's making himself MUCH better off than he would be had he not latched on to my London property. 'We' were only able to pay the mortgage off in 2011 because I was the one who had invested in it, and overpaid my mortgage for all those years, and then helped at the end by my redundancy payoff.

He calculates:
2021
Separation on 1st March 2021.
Current assets are roughly £336,000 (may vary based on housesales and fees, caravan etc). This is an increase of £21,000 from the sale of Ex-W's house. Splitting this increase 50/50 and adding to the 2014 split gives:
Ex-W: £227,062.50 - (increase of £95,062.50 from 2009)
Him: £108,937.50 - (increase of £48,937.50 from 2009)

I want £275k.
Plus at least £1100 a month maintenance.

If he thinks I, having bought in 2004 for £173k, overpaying for years on my mortgage thousands of pounds am only coming out in 2021 with £227k, he's got a fight on his hands.
He put in £50k (if that) yet comes out with £109k???!!!

I'd rather he see the error of his ways without us both paying solicitors thousands of this money.

Is a solicitor likely to get me more than the exH thinks I should get? If we can agree without a solicitor, great. £275k isn't going to go far in my home town, and my getting a mortgage on my own, having been out of paid work for over ten years, limited to school hours, at my age (47) is going to be very very hard.
He, on the other hand, is in steady work, on a decent salary, and will be in a much better position to buy a property on his own, even if he 'only' has a £60k deposit.

To add. He pushed for me to sell my London property because he said he could do better with the proceeds investing it. He hasn't.

OP posts:
M0n3y · 09/03/2021 12:58

His calculations:

Financial Situation
2009
On entering the marriage we both owned houses which were mortgaged. Both houses were worth significantly more than the mortgages due to an increase in house prices and mortgage repayment.
Ex-W (me – OP) had overpaid her mortgage, I had stuck to the regular repayment schedule.
Ex-W's house (worth ~£250,000 - need to estimate)+ £7,000 savings- £125,000 mortgage remaining
Total: ~ £132,000

Him: his house (worth £80,000 - sold in 2009)

  • car (worth ~£5,000 (bought early 2009)
  • £24,000 (£30,000 25 year mortgage paid for 8 years, estimated at 5% interest)
Total: ~ £60,000 (rounded down due to uncertainty about the mortgage)2014

Sold my house for £310,000.
Maintaining the ratio from assets brought in to the marriage would give:
Ex-W (me): £216,562.50
Him: £98,437.50

2021
Separation on 1st March 2021.
Current assets are roughly £336,000 (may vary based on housesales and fees, caravan etc). This is an increase of £21,000 from the sale of Ex-W's house. Splitting this increase 50/50 and adding to the 2014 split gives:
Ex-W: £227,062.50 - (increase of £95,062.50 from 2009)
Him: £108,937.50 - (increase of £48,937.50 from 2009)

Estimating the value of Ex-W's house in 2009
Estimating the value of the flat in X Road in 2009 is not easy. I have used the estimate of £250,000 that was mentioned at the time, as I think it is favourable to ex-W. According to this graph, a flat worth just under £250,000 in 2004 would be worth around £300,000 in 2009. There is minimal growth between 2004 and 2006, and the financial crash of 2008 brings the average values down a bit. The increase from 2009 to 2014 is more significant, with flats going from around £300,000 to close to £500,000.

From this, it looks like the increase in value isn’t linear between 2004 and 2014. The increase from 2009 to 2014 is more significant. The estimate of £250,000 for Ex-W's house in 2009 doesn’t reflect this, as the majority of the increase is from 2004 to 2009.

Access
Averaging 2 nights per week with the kids is 104 nights per year.
Access every second weekend is 52 nights per year. Adding one evening per week would bring this back to 104 nights per year. If we stick to this schedule we can introduce some flexibility around holidays. I get 23 days holiday per year + bank holidays. I’ll start off living in Current Location so this would only begin when I move to New Location. Until then we will have to figure out access around me taking time off work.

Would a solicitor do much better for me than ex-H's calculations?
OP posts:
millymollymoomoo · 09/03/2021 14:38

Scottish and English divorce law is different so you need to understand where you will divorce
In d gland who paid what is largely irrelevant.
Divorce will look at assets available and needs to be met
There are total assets of 336k
Tiu are asking for 80%. That could be considered high
In your favour is sahm, loss of earnings and pro airy care if children - would you be awarded 89%, maybe maybe not
In terms of maintenance, in England it would be CMS only unless you are aware spousal maintenance ( possibly in interim basis )

You must seek legal advise and understand the different outcomes in different jurisdictions

millymollymoomoo · 09/03/2021 14:39

Should say in England it is largely irrelevant who paid what

millymollymoomoo · 09/03/2021 14:40

Gah so many spelling mistakes above - you are asking for 80% plus spousal
In England you possibly wouldn’t be awarded that

Seek legal advice

wandawombat · 09/03/2021 14:42

If you go on CABs advice guide website and look at divorce, changing the country from Scotland to England, etc., you'll see how different it is. An English solicitor cannot act in Scotland.

Vetyveriohohoh · 09/03/2021 15:12

Has he got a pension you should be factoring in here?

M0n3y · 09/03/2021 15:56

Thanks for replies.

Mmmm, I am only seeking what I brought in to the marriage. Plus maintenance for the kids.

Need to know if I'm better off filing in England or Scotland, or if we even get a choice. We will be living in England by the time we divorce.

Not mentioned pension, no. I have that in my mind, am waiting to see if he mentions it. Nor has he mentioned how long it will be £900 or if that goes up as the years go on.

OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 09/03/2021 16:07

You don’t get what you brought to the marriage, that’s not how it works unless it’s a very short marriage

You need to assume a fifty fifty split as the starting point. You will be expected to work and financially support youtself, and for the time you have the kids. The judge will want a clean break.

Unless there is a reason the kids cannot go to school, and if one parent is saying it’s in their interests, then it’s unlikely you’d be able to use keeping them home as a reason you cannot work. You will need child care and wrap around care for the holidags etc. This is totally normal for working parents.

You may get more than fifty fifty, but it’s highly unlikely you’ll will take as much as you are asking for, and it’s possible a judge will grant you less.

Defiantly41 · 09/03/2021 16:12

You definitely need to consider the pension and will need specialist advice on this.

Vetyveriohohoh · 09/03/2021 16:13

You need to get a full view of the assets, this includes the pension. You also need to bear in mind that once children turn 18 the £900 he’s offering will disappear.

Vetyveriohohoh · 09/03/2021 16:17

Also any debts?

NeedToGetOuttaHere · 09/03/2021 16:46

Why are you waiting to see if f he mentions pensions? Surely you know if either of you have a pension?

Authenticcelestialmusic · 09/03/2021 16:58

I was going to mention the pension. How much does he pay in? Is it final salary? Do either of you have any previous pensions? What about savings? Investments? Have you seen evidence?

Bluntness100 · 09/03/2021 17:00

The pension is not valued at pound for pound. It’s done on the cash equivalent transfer value and that should be on the salary statements.

Authenticcelestialmusic · 09/03/2021 17:03

With maintenance if he changes jobs, sets up a limited company, marries and becomes a stay at home parent, then maintenance can become £0 per month. So ensure you get your true fair share now. This is your only opportunity to do your best to get your fair share of the assets. If that means legal advice on what is fair then you do need to pay for getting the advice.

It may be that he already has paid for legal advice.

Bluntness100 · 09/03/2021 17:13

Sorry I should have written pension statements, not salary,

But you need to include this, for both your pensions if you have one. Take the cetv and then add it to the pot. Then assume fifty fifty each, as the starting point. You can then negotiate he keeps his pension if for example you get more of the lump sum.

But you need to forget who put in what. You need to value your total assets now.

Tinkywinkydinkydoo · 09/03/2021 18:59

If the csa calculator says he has to pay £900 a month, than that’s what he’s obliged to pay, he won’t be ordered to pay more, you’ll be expected to find a job and pay towards the children yourself, if that means the children will have to go in to a school than so be it, you no longer have the luxury of being a sahm and can afford to homeschool. £900 a month csa is pretty decent, you say it’s him paying minimally and that will mean you’re sponging off your mother, but you not working will be the reason you’ll be “sponging” off your mother. I’m not sure in England but here if your child is over age 5, you’re expected to work, if you claim benefits , you’ll be expected to actively look for a job if a child is over 5.

StoneColdBitch · 09/03/2021 21:34

If you're not working, or if you're working but on a low income, won't you be getting some benefits? In the divorces I've seen play out in my social circle, SAHMs and low earners were told to claim benefits, and those benefits were taken into account when income needs were calculated. These were women married to high earners, who wanted spousal maintenance but got little or no SM because benefits plus CMS plus the capital settlement met their reasonable needs.

Doidontimmm · 10/03/2021 14:57

I’m in Scotland and here is a 50:50 split, doesn't matter who brought what assets to the marriage, you would never get 80% here. ENGLISH law seems a bit more favourable and you may get more there.

Vintagevixen · 10/03/2021 19:42

Legal advice as soon as possible - do NOT go by his calculations.

You need proper advice, if you go down the route of mediation legal costs need not spiral out of control but you need to know your legal position first.

LemonTT · 11/03/2021 08:11

There are significant differences between English and Scottish divorce law. In general English is more beneficial to people in your position.

However neither system is built around the approach and expectations that both of you have. Lawyers are going to make a lot of money out of you both unless you accept what financial commitments you made in getting married and having children. A house that you both lived in and financially contributed to is a marital asset and stopped being your house when you got married. Just like his income. It does not matter who paid what in the granular detail you reference. It will be split based on need.

If you do end up in court, they will make decisions for you that will cut across expectations of lifestyle. EG That as a adult with children of school age you can work and claim benefits. They make allowances for disadvantages that fall to you from joint decisions made in the marriage. But they won’t expect the other party to subsidise a unilateral decision after the split.

Divorce is easier and cheaper if you both accept the true legal reality of your situation and drop unrealistic expectations based on what you or other people lead you to believe.

EggysMom · 11/03/2021 08:19

My experience from both sides? Divorce in England because, even if you use a solicitor, you'll be able to do so much more of the supporting work yourself. I gave up in Scotland after 3 years of waiting for solicitors to talk to each other, and refiled in England where it was resolved in a year. Scots law is hugely, frustratingly archaic

DinoHat · 11/03/2021 08:20

Talk to a solicitor - your ExDH doesn’t need to know you’ve sought advice.

Bluntness100 · 11/03/2021 12:28

I do think you need to speak to a solicitor, but putting aside the pension for a moment, he’s offering two thirds to you. One third to him. This seems generous at a top line.

You’re asking for 275 and he gets 60,..85 percent to you and 15 percent to him, which seems highly unrealistic,

yes you can argue what you both put in originally. But then you need to expect him to argue you’ve not worked for ten years and his financial contribution is higher. The bottom line is it’s irrelevant , and going that way is pointless.

You also need to assess the risk that if he speaks to a solicitor the solicitor will tell him he’s being too generous, and to start from 50 percent or even lower, as he was the main breadwinner, so maybe 40. It’s highly unlikely this would remain his starting offer.

As such, you actually stand a reasonable chance of getting less in court Than he is currently offering.

As for maintenance that will be set at the legal limit, what you’re asking for spousal Maintenance when you go over that. It’s really rare a judge orders this now, as in really really rare, but you may get a short set period to see you to employment, more likely it would be offset in the division of assets. So for example if he walked with 140 and you 190 then you’d be expected to use that to get you through to employment. And also claim benefits.

Habe you started applying for school places and jobs? I’d recommend you get cracking with this to show willing as it’s ultimately going there, so better for you all to not delay.

Bleughbleughbleugh12 · 11/03/2021 12:52

Wow. I think you should bite his hand off for that. So what you contributed more originally. He’s contributed more for the past decade. I personally think a 50/50 split is fair unless it considerably disadvantages the children!

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