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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Would a solicitor do much better for me than ex-H's calculations?

57 replies

M0n3y · 09/03/2021 12:55

Really sorry this is so long, thanks for reading! Really trying to give as much essential info as possible.

Ex-husband-to-be and I are at the early stages of separating our finances.

I'm moving out in three weeks to stay with our two children (10, nearly 6) at my mother's, hundreds of miles across the country (from Scotland to the south of England), until I can find my feet and move out. Ex has a new job an hour away from my mother's town, so he will see the children probably EOW and maybe midweek sometimes.

The relationship not been great for the last few years (normal, ish, imo, with young kids taking a toll), but it is his choice to split, if that has any bearing).

To clarify:
He is Scottish. I am English. I'm not sure if the law differs between England and Scotland in such cases.
We have lived in Scotland for the last eight years. We married up here in 2009, though we're living in London at that time.

He has composed what he thinks is the way we should split our finances, and what he will pay in maintenance.
I think he's doing me (and consequently our children) a huge disservice, but is a solicitor likely to agree with him or me? Bottom line, any money he and I spend on solicitors is only going to eat into our finances, which ultimately both of us will use to support our children, so I'd rather not fork out on wasting money on a solicitor when it could go on our children.

I will put his calculations in the next post, after explaining our circumstances here.

When we met, I had a much more valuable property in London than he did in Scotland, which I'd worked hard to overpay the mortgage on from the very start. So when he came along, I was in a decent, independent financial position, and it put him in a favourable position because he moved in to my house when we married.

He sold his house some time later and put his equity into helping pay off my mortgage. He said this was £50k, I can't recall if it was this amount. I continued paying off my mortgage until a year after our first child was born (I was still getting paid a full year of maternity pay, at full pay). They were then making redundancies before I was set to return, so I took the redundancy payoff (about £25k) which completed my mortgage. So, we were mortgage free in a property in my name, based on my initial investment and overpayments, by late 2011/early 2012.
I have been a sahm since. He wanted the freedom to move jobs so I became a trailing spouse, giving up my earning capacity security because I trusted him not to do this to me, and we both preferred to have our child/ren at home rather than pay others to look after them. We were also in the reasonable position to live on one salary because of MY property enabling us to live mortgage-free.
We then jointly decided to home educate the children. This means I have been out of the job scene for over ten years.
He now wants me to put the children in school (not, imo, in their best interests, but because he wants me to earn money), and he thinks I can just sail into a job. Even if I wanted to put them in school, that means I am the one doing the limiting school week hours, plus I've taken a hit on my earning power, whereas he has not.
So his offering of £900 a month (a smidge over what he says the child maintenance calculator suggests), is not really factoring in that I may be unemployed for months or possibly much longer, and that I can't work full time because I'd be the one working around the school run/after school activities.
My choice would be to find something I can do part time from home (I'm already speaking with wahm friends who earn ok doing online sales type stuff) whilst I continue to home educate the children.
Neither child wants to go to school, btw.

His £900 a month also means if I don't manage to find a job as he wants me to, I'm stuck at my mother's for longer, in a less than ideal situation (I'll have to share a room with my daughter). So it's definitely not a long-term solution, nor, in the interim, should he feel he can pay minimally whilst I sponge off my mother.

I sold my property in SW London in 2014 for £310k.
He sold his property in a run down Scottish town, c2009, taking 50k profit. House prices as they are in his home town he wouldn't be looking at much more profit had he kept his Scottish property. As such, I feel he's making himself MUCH better off than he would be had he not latched on to my London property. 'We' were only able to pay the mortgage off in 2011 because I was the one who had invested in it, and overpaid my mortgage for all those years, and then helped at the end by my redundancy payoff.

He calculates:
2021
Separation on 1st March 2021.
Current assets are roughly £336,000 (may vary based on housesales and fees, caravan etc). This is an increase of £21,000 from the sale of Ex-W's house. Splitting this increase 50/50 and adding to the 2014 split gives:
Ex-W: £227,062.50 - (increase of £95,062.50 from 2009)
Him: £108,937.50 - (increase of £48,937.50 from 2009)

I want £275k.
Plus at least £1100 a month maintenance.

If he thinks I, having bought in 2004 for £173k, overpaying for years on my mortgage thousands of pounds am only coming out in 2021 with £227k, he's got a fight on his hands.
He put in £50k (if that) yet comes out with £109k???!!!

I'd rather he see the error of his ways without us both paying solicitors thousands of this money.

Is a solicitor likely to get me more than the exH thinks I should get? If we can agree without a solicitor, great. £275k isn't going to go far in my home town, and my getting a mortgage on my own, having been out of paid work for over ten years, limited to school hours, at my age (47) is going to be very very hard.
He, on the other hand, is in steady work, on a decent salary, and will be in a much better position to buy a property on his own, even if he 'only' has a £60k deposit.

To add. He pushed for me to sell my London property because he said he could do better with the proceeds investing it. He hasn't.

OP posts:
NeedToGetOuttaHere · 11/03/2021 13:04

Have you tried offering him a figure half way (or just above) what you want and what he is proposing?

blowonitthen · 14/03/2021 08:10

I think both of you are coming from slightly optimistic, but not far- fetched, viewpoints and it would likely fall at around a 70/30 equity split, because of income disparity and caring duties (rather than who brought how much financially to the marriage) - possibly 75/25 at a push if necessary for all needs to be met.

However, pensions are missing, so it's an incomplete picture. Assuming there are some, I would accept his current equity calculations if you can avoid additional solicitor fees and the pension pots are split 50/50.

I don't think you'll get any more than CM and seeing as he can revert to this at any point anyway, would not take promises of more into a settlement.

(I don't know about Scottish law by the way, so this is based on experience with settlements in England.)

Bluntness100 · 14/03/2021 08:43

I think both of you are coming from slightly optimistic, but not far- fetched, viewpoints and it would likely fall at around a 70/30 equity split, because of income disparity and caring duties (rather than who brought how much financially to the marriage) - possibly 75/25 at a push if necessary for all needs to be met

That’s the weirdest thing I’ve ever read. You’ve no basis for that number and millions of divorced women with school age kids will tell you it’s not remotely going to be that high, 😂

blowonitthen · 14/03/2021 08:57

Yes, based on no pensions split as she is just talking about house equity.

M0n3y · 14/03/2021 12:10

Sorry for delay responding, thanks for taking the time to comment.
I've been feeling very stressed and needed a break from it.

I have raised the pension issue, but I wanted to see if he'd mention it or hope I'd forget.

Re school. I worked hard before I had kids. I had them late in life, too. I am not workshy and never have been. I simply believe they are thriving without school. He did too. I firmly believe it is better for them. I'm looking at supplementing his maintenance somehow with work from home options, I do not want to do that horrible school run rush, rush to job, leave to collect kids, juggling act.

I do think he's coming out better than he would had he met someone with no money coming in to the marriage. We've lived mortgage free because of ME and what I brought in.

OP posts:
Doidontimmm · 15/03/2021 14:26

I mean this kindly but it doesn’t matter if he would have come off worse if he met someone with no assets, he didn’t, he met you with assets, you married and therefore now have joint assets. I’m afraid no judge will take what ifs or anything like that into account. I get you feel it’s unfair but it is what it is. It’s a pipe dream to think you can keep what was singularly yours as you married, unless he agrees.

If you want to home school you have to compromise.

I do feel for you but it’s all very unrealistic especially if you divorce in Scotland and then every solicitor I spoke to said it’s 50:50 end of.

OverTheRubicon · 15/03/2021 14:40

@M0n3y

Sorry for delay responding, thanks for taking the time to comment. I've been feeling very stressed and needed a break from it.

I have raised the pension issue, but I wanted to see if he'd mention it or hope I'd forget.

Re school. I worked hard before I had kids. I had them late in life, too. I am not workshy and never have been. I simply believe they are thriving without school. He did too. I firmly believe it is better for them. I'm looking at supplementing his maintenance somehow with work from home options, I do not want to do that horrible school run rush, rush to job, leave to collect kids, juggling act.

I do think he's coming out better than he would had he met someone with no money coming in to the marriage. We've lived mortgage free because of ME and what I brought in.

You've lived mortgage free because of you, but all your living expenses since have come from him, so you've got to stop valuing your own financial contribution so much higher. 50/50 is the starting point, even in relationships like mine where I had been both main earner AND main carer. You're actual likely to benefit from this, as his financial contributions over the years will almost certainly outweigh your home equity.

None of us want to do the horrible school rush, do you think that most of us single mums choose it? Hmm

I think you've got to accept that the marital house is a shared asset. His pension fund should be material, if he was earning the kind of money that let you be a trailing spouse and SAHM, so your 50%+ of that will also count well. It might be tempting to take that as equity in the house, but many many divorced older women will tell you how they regret that.

You can't expect to home school as a single parent unless you have another income source. Be clear, he will not be the one sponging off your mum.

I appreciate this post may feel unsympathetic, but you seem very angry and very unrealistic, and it's not going to give either you or your DC the best outcome. You should spend the money on a solicitor and likely an actuary too to value the pension, it will be worth it for your ongoing co-parenting relationship and financial future.

Paris100 · 15/03/2021 21:26

When I was in the process of divorcing (Scotland), it was worked out as all joint assets (property, pensions, savings etc) minus any liabilities (loans or credit cards even in individual names) then the remaining balance was split in two for a 50:50 split. Even though I only worked part time because of the children I agreed to 50:50 as it would have dragged on forever otherwise.
Child maintenance agreed via the CMS calculator.

Quite honestly, you’ll need to start applying for jobs and the children will have to attend school.

Bluntness100 · 15/03/2021 21:34

We've lived mortgage free because of ME and what I brought in

This is true, but mortgage free doesn’t pay the bills op or put food on thr table or clothes on your back. You also lived for ten years not earning. And h paid for everything. If you take your initial contribution then it’s only fair he takes his for the last ten years.

I also think you need to accept the kids need to go to school, snd more, you need to work.💐

Quartz2208 · 15/03/2021 21:38

I think you do need to be realistic OP its not about who brought what it is where you are now.

He is offering a 2/3 1/3 split plus a fairly decent amount of maintenance I am not sure you will get much better through the courts.

And as sad as it is you are separating you cannot expect not to have to get some kind of job

SionnachGlic · 15/03/2021 21:43

Go see a solicitor, you'll be less ancious once you have proper advice ...even if it is not what you'd like to hear, correct information would be better than all this guessing & not actually knowing. And for what it is worth, his contribution in terms of keeping household going for last 10 yrs will be considered also in monetary terms.

SeasonFinale · 15/03/2021 21:56

How much are each of your pensions worth? Unless very similar they would be factored in as an asset.

Yes there is a chance that you may get spousal maintenance for a fixed period on top of what he should pay via CMS to enable you to look for a job but this is not guaranteed.

70/30 is indeed applied in such circumstances on many occasions but sometimes 65/35 or 60/40.

But I am afraid you do need to get out of the mindset of what you each put in. It is now case of one pot and what you can each take out.

Do seek legal advice.

Lolalovesmarmite · 15/03/2021 21:56

You seem very fixated on what YOU brought into the marriage. A judge will not care and by the time you got in front of him to find that out, a significant chunk of that cash would have been eroded anyway. Do yourself a favour and look forwards rather than back.

Yazzyup · 15/03/2021 22:01

No it does not seem fair. You need to ask for valuation of pension and a 50/50 split of that. Maintance until the child FINISH university. Spousal maintance -and CMS. And I would suggest 100% of the house.

I would suggest that is what you ask for.

He might change is offer pronto. You don't have a pension etc. Get legal advice and file for divorce in England near you.

Bluntness100 · 15/03/2021 22:06

@Yazzyup

No it does not seem fair. You need to ask for valuation of pension and a 50/50 split of that. Maintance until the child FINISH university. Spousal maintance -and CMS. And I would suggest 100% of the house.

I would suggest that is what you ask for.

He might change is offer pronto. You don't have a pension etc. Get legal advice and file for divorce in England near you.

She can ask for that all she wants but he’d be a fool to give it, she’s not entitled. And she risks going to court and a solicitor advising him is current offer is far to generous and he should offer a max fifty fifty.

Quite frankly your advice is dangerous. It could really fuck her up. Going greedy and unrealistic will back fire.

SionnachGlic · 15/03/2021 22:09

Can you calculate his contribution for past 10 years since you've been sahm. I understand you are doing the tot based on how brought what in & percentages etc...but you cannot overlook what has occurred financially in the last 10 years. You def need to speak to a solicitor.

DavidsSchitt · 15/03/2021 22:16

Bite his hand off, apply for schools, get a job and set up home in your new area.

Or don't. But you're unlikely to get a deal as good as that otherwise I'd say.

HoldontoOneMoreDay · 15/03/2021 22:35

Others know the ins and outs of law better than me, though I definitely think you should speak to a solicitor.

But you also need to think about yourself and your future. You can't let homeschooling be a reason for stalling your career for the next ten years. That just doesn't work as a single woman. You are setting yourself up for a later life of poverty. I don't mean to be harsh - it's exceptionally sad when a marriage break up means you have to completely rethink what you'd both signed up to for your children. A friend went through similar and I get it, it's heartbreaking.

But even if you get some of his pension, it won't be enough for a secure retirement. And given how you worked and saved for your house, I think that's really important to you. Remember, his £900 pm will reduce when your eldest child is 18 and stop when your youngest hits 18...

Retrain, get yourself onto a returner scheme, do whatever you need to do, but get your career started again and don't lose the next 10 years of pension saving.

OverTheRubicon · 15/03/2021 23:45

@DavidsSchitt

Bite his hand off, apply for schools, get a job and set up home in your new area.

Or don't. But you're unlikely to get a deal as good as that otherwise I'd say.

That's not good advice until you know about the pension. Could be final salary on a high income - it's worth checking.
OverTheRubicon · 15/03/2021 23:47

And @Bluntness100 it's astonishingly unlikely that a judge would give 50/50 when one party has been a homeschooling sahp for a decade. And she's absolutely entitled to ask for a valuation of his pension. What is with all the more-than-usually dodgy advice on here today?

DavidsSchitt · 16/03/2021 08:31

"That's not good advice until you know about the pension. Could be final salary on a high income - it's worth checking."

She could still end up better off this way. But don't worry too much because as the OP said earlier, she has asked about his pension already so isn't planning to ignore it.

NeedToGetOuttaHere · 16/03/2021 08:41

Stop focusing on what each of you bought into the marriage.
List all the assets you both have including pensions.
See a solicitor
Go from there.

MsTSwift · 16/03/2021 08:44

Stop being tight and pay for advice! Can’t believe you typed all that out for someone to advise you for free! Dear me.

ShowMeHow · 16/03/2021 08:49

I’m just wondering why you are heading to England before the house is sold? Why not keep the children and your life’s settled until you have the sale and can sort new living accommodation for both of you?

HerMammy · 16/03/2021 08:51

I think you’re being a bit deluded; nobody likes the school/work rush, you do know maintenance will stop one day; you can’t live in this airy fairy world of home schooling, not working, ex supporting you because ‘you don’t like’
Yes you brought ££ into the marriage but you’ve contributed 0 for 10 years, I’d take his offer, find a job, find a school and move on.

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