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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

Spousal Maintenance

38 replies

Lotsofsunshine · 28/02/2021 14:40

I'm currently trying mediation for my finances but we are very far apart on SM. I have asked my solicitor for advice but he seems to say different things when I ask - I know he can't say for sure what would happen if we do go to court. But I would like to go into mediation knowing the worst case and best case and then be able to make a decision on what a good agreement is in mediation knowing I need to be realistic. I have contacted a barrister for some written advice but wondered if anyone had done mediation successfully and had any advice.

I have not worked for 8 years. I'm a qualified accountant but will need time to get back to being able to work. I had not qualified for long when I gave up work and I am currently doing courses to enable me to work - this has been slowed down by homeschooling recently. I have spoken to agents/friends who work in the field and I am unsure how hard it will be to get back into accountancy with such a long break. I want to give it a shot to get back to it but realise I will have to take any job I can get after a short while if it does not happen.

We have 3 children 11, 8 and 5 - youngest just started school. At the moment I look after them full time apart from eow but eventually I will have them 2/3 time in term time and 50/50 holidays.

We have 2 houses so have enough to house us both adequately mortgage free with about £20k each left for savings. I will get child maintenance which I think will be about £900 a month.

His position is I should get no SM and thinks I can get a full time job immediately. Our school wrap around care is not accepting any new people because of covid and there are no childminder places at the moment for 3 children. I don't have family help.

He works for himself with a limited company and earns about £70,000 net.

My solicitor has said that I may be able to get SM until my eldest starts tertiary education but also perhaps until the youngest starts secondary school. Or maybe just for 1 or 2 years while I retrain and get back to work. He has also said I would be very lucky to get 2 years SM capitalised from the houses.

Has anyone else been a similar situation and also tried mediation where you are in the position of negotiating this yourself?

OP posts:
Original poster
Lotsofsunshine · 28/02/2021 14:42

Should have included we were married for 12 years.

OP posts:
spookycookies · 28/02/2021 14:47

I doubt you will get sm on 70,000 especially if you've got a mortgage free house and £20,000 in savings. The courts prefer clean breaks. They will expect you to live on the savings and get a job. Not impossible but I would think unlikely.

PeterPanNeverLands · 28/02/2021 14:47

You can get a job doing something else whilst you complete your courses.

It's not your ex husbands responsibility to support you financially. You have a home and savings, you're very fortunate.

ooohbriefcase · 28/02/2021 14:50

SM is really hard to get. Your ex earning £70,000 I don't think will qualify for that. It's usually only taken into account when there's A BIG salary involved. Also your children are all school age so you can get a job. Everyone else does and manages without family help. With a mortgage to pay and much less in CM i must add.

MyGorramShip · 28/02/2021 14:56

So you’re mortgage free, have 20K savings, will get £900 in CM and want SM? When he earns 70K? Don’t talk wet. Your sol is an idiot to even think you’d get it.

onyourway · 28/02/2021 14:57

Look at Women Returners programmes. As a qualified accountant, you've got a good chance of getting on a programme.

womenreturners.com/

Obviously it won't necessarily be local or fit in with school hours, but for professional women trying to renter the workforce seriously, it's a good place to start.

Original poster
Lotsofsunshine · 28/02/2021 15:03

He has about £145k per year through the company. The £70k is net. I don't feel my solicitor is particularly clear or consistent with his advice which is why I have posted.

OP posts:
Secretsout · 28/02/2021 15:19

I received SM as part of my divorce. I basically worked out my monthly income requirements - include everything, even down to haircuts, clothes, holidays. I then took off my income and the shortfall was what I was awarded as SM.

I was quite conservative with my income requirements and probably should have gone further.

My solicitor was clear that after a long marriage their needed to be equality of lifestyles (think that's how they put it).

One thing I would say is that if at all possible I'd try to agree a higher proportion of the capital and forget SM. Maybe get his share of the £20k savings? Would that help you for about 5 years to get yourself set up?

My Ex has beat me with the SM stick for 3 years, withheld payments, threatened me. It's been hell. I've been back to court several times. On reflection, I should have gone for more capital and/or pension share just for the freedom and full clean break. He can never take a clean break back, he can ask for a SM review at any time. And being SE leaves you open to all the fucking about with him pretending his income is something it isn't.

millymollymoomoo · 28/02/2021 16:48

Well no onee here can say if you’ll be awarded
What £ are you expecting on top of 900 a month child maintenance ? For how long ?

MrsComte · 28/02/2021 17:04

Can you not get an admin job during school hours for now?

I honestly think SM is very unlikely in view of everything you've said.

StephenBelafonte · 28/02/2021 17:08

You've no chance of SM on £70k - it's really only ordered when party is a high earner (over £100k)

ConfidenceCrisis44 · 28/02/2021 17:18

Going to buck the trend here....when I got divorced my ex DH earnt way more than me, about the same as Op's, whereas I had been home for years and was just starting out in a new career, which at that point was not well paid. I get £800 pcm child maintenance, but wsa also awarded 2 years of spousal at £500 pcm. This was based on the wage disparity, with the idea that it was to help me whilst I transistion to earning more. I was lucky, didnt have to fight for it, ex's solicitor told him it was a fair deal in light of us splitting everything else 50/50! (If I wanted the hassle I could have gone for 60/40 or more apparently)

crimsonlake · 28/02/2021 17:19

To be honest your calculation of £900 child maintenance sounds high. I think I received approx £450 for two children, was it agreed between yourselves? My ex was a high earner and that was the CMS's calculation.
If you go to court from experience of several judges the outcome will depend on which side they got out of bed in the morning, I kid you not.
SM is rare these days, I received lifetime SM several years ago, eventually I managed to get it capitalised. My ex had taken me to court yet again seeking to terminate it, but the judge sided with me and as I said I managed to get a lump sum instead.

Crazycrazylady · 28/02/2021 20:21

Op
Sp is pretty rarely awarded, usually after a very long marriage ( much longer than 12 years), given the age of your kids and your qualifications I think the judge would deam it reasonable that you go back to work and support yourself immediately.
You can definitely ask for it but i really wouldn't be banking on getting it.

Thedogisdrivingmemad · 28/02/2021 20:42

I feel like some of the replies here are making out the OP is greedy.
Remember she has taken the last 8 years out of her career to be at home with the children. Her husband progressed his career for those 8 years and so earns more like for like.
She should be compensated for that differential morally.

Legally I believe (I'm no expert!) there is an idea that lifestyles should be broadly equal after a long marriage.

Yes she is lucky to get a mortgage free house, but he is getting the same plus the higher earnings his more advanced career allows.

Secretsout · 28/02/2021 21:07

completely agree with @Thedogisdrivingmemad this is the point my sol made. I did have a long marriage but even in the case of the OP, 12 years is enough time for her income and earning potential to be affected.

The OP also states that £70k is the net income (gross £150k). Definitely a claim for SM. But as per my earlier post, I'd push for more capital and a full clean break. SM is not worth the ongoing aggro

Original poster
Lotsofsunshine · 28/02/2021 21:11

I really don't want to be greedy or 'talk wet'

I don't feel like my solicitor is the best which is why I wanted to hear from anyone similar who may have done mediation as well. I feel very much on the back foot as it was an abusive rationship and I know that makes no difference to the financial side of things but struggling with mediation.

We have agreed to split everything 50/50 and always agreed that I would not work once we had children.

We have used the cms calculator for his gross income and that is right. The figure I gave is net so after cms payment he will have nearly £5k a month in his pocket.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lotsofsunshine · 28/02/2021 21:14

And secretsout thank you. How many years SM did you get originally? We have done the outgoings etc and I could push for it to come from the assets but that is the sticking point.
I certainly want a clean break if I can due to his behaviour.

OP posts:
Secretsout · 28/02/2021 21:18

I used CMS calc as a guide. My ex earned £190k at the time of divorce. We agreed the amount based on CmS even though EX earned way above their upper earning limit. We came to a private arrangement and I thought EX would support the kids without question but not so. So he paid significantly below the legal limit for 3 years and had a disposable income of £5000 per month post divorce. I have about £500. Equality of income didn't happen. Fight for your rights OP. He will not be your friend in the future and your kids will be affected

Botanicals · 28/02/2021 21:19

I agree with @Thedogisdrivingmemad too. The £900 won’t even cover childcare let alone the other costs but op is being painted as greedy?

Secretsout · 28/02/2021 21:22

I got 12 years of SM which takes me to a point where I could take NHS pension. But in those 12 years my income will be static at £25k pa whereas his will continue to rise above £200k as a single man with no commitment to his kids. So I cannot reiterate enough to secure you and your children's future. You are not grabby or greedy.

Thedogisdrivingmemad · 28/02/2021 21:22

Totally agree. I am so grateful that my SM was capitalised as ex's circumstances changed (due to his own actions) and heaven knows what would have happened with ongoing SM.
You have more certainty with capitalised SM.

I had a long marriage and had stayed at home with dc but worked part time. I earned far less than before having dc and far, far less than my ex. I mean 20 times less. I received a few years of SM capitalised (ie paid upfront) at an amount which bridged the gap between my paltry income and what my budget agreed with my solicitor, his solicitor and him. It was payable until dc was 18.

Everything else was split 50:50.

As he still earns far more than me, he will be better off longer term but it seemed a fair settlement.

Botanicals · 28/02/2021 21:24

And pension etc, often benefits the man unless a proportion is awarded.

Thedogisdrivingmemad · 28/02/2021 21:24

Has your solicitor advised you to work through a budget for living costs for you and the kids OP?

Thedogisdrivingmemad · 28/02/2021 21:27

Sorry I missed your earlier post where you say you have done a budget.

Absolutely the pension must be included.