Spousal Maintenance vs Universal Credit

[sallysm]

I'm confused about how courts balance an order for spousal maintenance (SM) against universal credit, given that receiving SM results in a £ for £ reduction in universal credit (UC).

For example, let's say someone without a job and 1 preschooler, says their reasonable needs are £1200 a month, and their husband is on 40k.

So the Ex has to pay about £400 child maintenance
That leaves a shortfall of £800

Does the court order the Ex to pay £800 SM? (leaving him to live on £1100) Or do they tell the person to claim the £800 (as possible) from UC instead?

I know of a couple cases that were awarded SM.
One was due to there being substantial fortunes and earnings from properties and the marriage was a number of decades.

The other was on not much more than what the op's husband was, as his basic pay, but could increase by another 15 plus k in overtime. The only reason they were awarded, was to get a quick break and because they were all legal professionals and used connections to get the best "deal". However, I believe that this could only be stipulated to run a few years until the youngest child was at school.

Op, I understand your logic when emotions are running so high.

Sadly, the reality of lone parent life, is that on the whole it's a financial and logistical struggle. Ideals you may have had, may have to go out the window. UC is now Where's near as generous as other previous benefits streams were. Yes you could oik out not getting a job, but the reality of that is paying to get to your job centre every fortnight once your child is 3. Having pressure applied etc.

Also, if you are awarded capital etc this may reduce your ability to make any successful claims.

And though things may not be ideal in the job market, my advice would be that you find the best of the bunch type of job before you get to the point of fortnightly meetings. Currently, as much as it goes against the grain, I know my organisation and many similar are currently recruiting. So I'd take a more pragmatic approach.

How long were you married @sallysm?

Just to say I have a few family members on UC because of this virus and the urgency applied to getting back to work is different with all members.
All a few days work here and there each month which they declare their earnings
One is spoken to every fortnight. One occasionally gets potential jobs posted on their message board but is never called or spoken to.
Two of them haven’t heard anything from UC since their initial phone calls

I think there is so much unemployment at the moment that there is no time to contact everyone

@Bythemillpond

Just to say I have a few family members on UC because of this virus and the urgency applied to getting back to work is different with all members. All a few days work here and there each month which they declare their earnings One is spoken to every fortnight. One occasionally gets potential jobs posted on their message board but is never called or spoken to. Two of them haven’t heard anything from UC since their initial phone calls

I think there is so much unemployment at the moment that there is no time to contact everyone

But if the op plans on not getting a job for a number of years, as it sounds, this won't be the case.

You're gonna love the benefits system OP!

You are an adult and responsible for providing for yourself. If you are unable to do that there is a support system in the form of universal credit. Its not your ex husbands responsibility to provide for you, only provide in the form of maintenance for his child. Suck it up buttercup.

OP, tour ex us not going to be made to look after you. You want out of the marriage, thus means out of his responsibities towards you.

You are not going to get benefits without evidencing you are looking for a job...ANY job. You don't get to pick and choose if your child is over 3yo.

You don't get to decide what finances you require monthly to satisfy your requirements, you'll need to adjust to what others will decide is what you need.

Unless you get a job and earn enough to look after yourself, others will have control of your income.

It's not the easiest thing when you've got a child and a pandemic on your hands.
Everybody in the world is currently dealing with the pandemic - and this is Mumsnet after all so nearly all of the people on here also have children.
Sorry OP but you are not special - or entitled to anything more than the rest of us. Once you are divorced you are no longer your ex's responsibility - if your outgoings are greater than your incomings you need to get a job to increase your income - or reduce your outgoings. If you can't afford to take on the mortgage (which BTW is the smallest mortgage I've heard of for a LONG time) you will need to sell the house and split the equity - if you have your child more you may receive a larger percentage but it's time for you to realise it is no longer your ex's responsibility. It really is that simple.

Un-fucking-believable. This just gets better and better. OP doesn't work, wants to take every penny she can from her husband, fully intends to get as many benefits as possible but "doesn't want to work in a supermarket".

Well sorry your majesty, you don't actually get the choice. Your EX husband won't support you once you divorce, and quite frankly i cannot possibly imagine why

From the moment my STBXH left I paid the mortgage as he doesn't live here. Now we're finally close to completing the divorce I'm buying him out and he gets 40% equity to reflect the situation. Anyone hoping to live free in someone else's house (which post divorce is what it is if you're not paying) and get their bills paid without having to work is not being realistic these days, courts expect you to work. Doesn't necessarily make it easy especially at the moment but that's how it is.

So can you confirm the following, those with experience to answer any of the following:

1. If I get a mesher order, whereby he has to pay the mortgage until our child is 18, will this count as SM and be deducted from UC?

2. If I can get £850 on UC, plus say £450 CM from him, that puts me on £1300 a month. (Maybe more if I could find work). So would a judge ask me to pay the mortgage myself out of that? (which is between 3 and 400).

3. If a judge says I must pay the mortgage myself based on point 2, but the mortgage company says sorry, you're not in a job, or earning enough, we're not naming you on the mortgage - do I still have to pay it?

4. If judge expects me to work, that's still not the same as 'ordering' me to work, right? As I say, you can't guarantee a job opportunity or successful application. Or job security come to that.

To someone who asked previously, I've been married almost 9 years, and have one child in preschool. And I have had a several jobs in the past, part time and minimum wage.

A mesher order does not include him paying the mortgage. It just allows you to live in the house until the child is of an age it can be sold.

2) If I can get £850 on UC, plus say £450 CM from him, that puts me on £1300 a month. (Maybe more if I could find work). So would a judge ask me to pay the mortgage myself out of that? (which is between 3 and 400)

Yes. £1300 a month after tax is more than reasonable to live on. Even if mortgage is included. If you are saying you need more than that, not including rent/mortgage, you seriously need to adjust you living costs.

A mesher order means the non resident cannot force the sale of the property until a certain time usually when the children reach the age of 18. It does not mean that they contribute to the payment of the mortgage.
If no mesher order is obtained and you cannot afford to buy your ex out of the house if there is equity the house has to be sold. You cannot not pay the mortgage. That’s ridiculous and would quickly result in the house being repossessed and your credit ruined for a long time.
The judge cannot order you to get a job. No one can order you to get a job but you can be sanctioned by UC.
So basically you will have to pay the mortgage / rent by yourself out of whatever money you have coming in.

your credit ruined for a long time.

It doesn’t sound like OP is named on the mortgage, although legally I’m not sure how that impacts things.

If you can’t get a mortgage agreed in your name, no one else will pay it for you. The house will be sold or repossessed.

Are you also sure you’ll get £450 monthly CM for one child on his salary?

My understanding is,

1) If I get a mesher order, whereby he has to pay the mortgage until our child is 18, will this count as SM and be deducted from UC?

Like others have said, the mesher order wouldn’t make him pay. It’d just let you live there. You’d need to be able to pay it.

2) If I can get £850 on UC, plus say £450 CM from him, that puts me on £1300 a month. (Maybe more if I could find work). So would a judge ask me to pay the mortgage myself out of that? (which is between 3 and 400).

Yes, you’ll need to pay the mortgage.

3) If a judge says I must pay the mortgage myself based on point 2, but the mortgage company says sorry, you're not in a job, or earning enough, we're not naming you on the mortgage - do I still have to pay it?

Yes, if you want to live there. Or it’ll be repossessed, and you’ll be evicted. The judge cannot make the bank name you on the mortgage, and the bank won’t do that unless you pass affordability checks.

4) If judge expects me to work, that's still not the same as 'ordering' me to work, right? As I say, you can't guarantee a job opportunity or successful application. Or job security come to that.

No, it’s not. It just means they won’t fund you. The reality is that UC is legally what you need to live on, so if you want more than that, you’ll need to work.

I’m sorry that this seems to have come as such a shock, but I think you need to prepare yourself for the fact that you’ll need to work to maintain a higher standard of living. It’s pretty tough for single parents.

CM will be about £350 a month by the way - assuming he has the child one night a week.

£1300 per month for you and a pre-schooler is more than doable with such a low housing cost!

Meshers order means you can stay in the house he can’t force it to be sold it doesn’t mean he has to pay the mortgage

Will he go for 50/50 childcare which is favoured by most courts these days as you won’t get Cm then

How do you plan on paying for your solicitors fees? If you plan on dragging it through the courts Do you have substantial savings?

What about your husband - do you think he will want more time with his child than eow?

Being a single mum is hard graft but you do what you need to do to look after your child even if that is a job you don’t fancy. We have a 60/40 custody arrangement and I don’t take any CM but I get the child benefit that was the deal. I upped my hours to full time when we split and worked shifts around available childcare (family) and paid for nursery/funded hours. You won’t get SM and you need to look at working if you want to get a mortgage application approved. It isn’t days gone by when men have to support women we have fought for years for rights and equality and part of that is providing for our family. You might not want a supermarket job but if it puts a roof over your child’s head and food on the table you do it. My now husband lost his well paid job at the start of the pandemic so he went on indeed and applied for anything and everything, he is now in a much lower paid customer services job which he is over qualified for-however that is all irrelevant as it provides for his children as that’s what you do as a parent. There is plenty of work out there it’s just the work lots of people feel is beneath them.

I think you need to stop googling ways to divorce your husband while staying in the comfortable marital home as a stay at home mum funded by your ex husband it’s not going to happen it doesn’t work like that

Book a free consultation with a solicitor decide if you really want to divorce your husband which will mean you will have to get a job and support yourself and the possibility of the marital home being sold to split the equity clean break orders are favoured more than mescher orders especially as your child is so young and you can’t afford to buy him out

Why did he leave ?

Totally agree buttercup I got made redundant at the start of first lockdown a months notice took a carers job the week after I have never done that line if work before then got a temporary contract doing test and trace that kept being extended actually really liked doing the welfare calls so was really sad to leave but 3 months ago secured a permanent job so had to do the adult thing and accept it even though I don’t particularly enjoy it so there are jobs out there despite the pandemic

Meshed order is good when you can't get a deposit and a bank would reject you based on income but you can afford the mortgage on your income plus child maintenence.
The person living in the house makes 100% of the payment. The con for you is that your ex would get 50% of the future value when the child is 18 and it's not routinely awarded. The con for him is that it could stop him getting a future mortgage and he's obviously entitled to do that whether single or in a new relationship.

You need to factor in whether the legal fees would make this worthwhile.

We are telling you the truth when we say that CM plus benefits is your best case scenario and that the CM can go down if he is made redundant, gets a lower paid job or becomes self employed.
If you've not divorced him yet look into what training you can do to enable you to earn money or get a job before starting the process to make things easier. Your ex will only owe you CM plus at least 50% of assets and if he goes for 50/50 custody then the CM will be zero. Despite rumours of courts favouring women, men can get 50/50. Even if it doesn't happen straight away it would be viewed as reasonable for him to ask for 50/50 in the near future.

This must be a wind up

No one can be that blatant