Spousal Maintenance vs Universal Credit

[sallysm]

I'm confused about how courts balance an order for spousal maintenance (SM) against universal credit, given that receiving SM results in a £ for £ reduction in universal credit (UC).

For example, let's say someone without a job and 1 preschooler, says their reasonable needs are £1200 a month, and their husband is on 40k.

So the Ex has to pay about £400 child maintenance
That leaves a shortfall of £800

Does the court order the Ex to pay £800 SM? (leaving him to live on £1100) Or do they tell the person to claim the £800 (as possible) from UC instead?

Is this a wind up ? You are not going to get spousal maintenance ordered by the court on £40k. And your uc will be stopped if you aren’t looking for a job. All you will get from your ex is cm and you won’t get that if you share 50/50 childcare it’s not your ex responsibility to look after you when you get divorced

@MessAllOver I'm glad to hear that! I think it's really important when entering into these arrangements (as threads such as these prove sadly). Hopefully it never happens but if everyone plans for it happening then everyone is generally much better off

but the arrangement I have with my DH is that he transfers me a large sum of money every year for my personal savings (not the joint pot) to "compensate" for the unpaid labour I do. We have an understanding that, if our marriage breaks down, that money is not "marital assets" but belongs entirely to me. He's fine with that because he's not a complete tosser and he recognises that I carry him at home

Which is fine until the divorce goes sour and he doesn’t honour this agreement.

It’s not unheard of. Which is why prenups don’t work. In the eyes of the law all money is joint, and a verbal agreement won’t hold if he decides to take everything he can.

Have you had legal/financial advice on how best to protect this money? Tie it up in a personal pension, for example?

Bottom line : get a job. And you're right, not easy at the moment but that's life.

@bluebluezoo. Sorry, I'm slightly hijacking this thread although I think the OP is on the wind-up anyway.

We have a paper trail showing our intentions for that money. We also have sufficient assets that it wouldn't strictly need to be taken into account in a needs-based calculation. And DH is painfully honourable...

...Though you're right that you don't know what people are capable of pre-divorce...hmm, I'll give it some thought, thank you. I pay into a work pension atm, might look at private to supplement as it's unlikely to be substantial.

I also control our joint savings and our DS's savings (DH doesn't know the passwords) so no chance to squirrel assets away. It will be me hiding them from him . He's in a profession where that sort of behaviour is severely frowned upon, anyway. Also, no chance of hiding his income for maintenance purposes. Though he might take a lower paid job when he eventually has a nervous breakdown from working the hours he does so that's something to factor in...

The courts will treat pre-nups and post-nups as binding in some circumstances, I believe, so long as any children are provided for.

Food for thought.

*As I say, unfortunately the jobs market is pretty weak. You can't just look for work. It's non existent at present"
Except that's not the case. There are jobs available in care, supermarkets and a number of essential roles that are expanding. Getting one is one thing but taking the attitude that you shouldn't have to look because it's harder than normal is totally unreasonable

Sounds like you want the benefits of the marriage still, ie. the money without the inconvenience, ie. The husband. It doesn't work this way, a divorce is to move in, bit to remain more trapped for longer.

No judge is going to see you as a helpless ex wife who needs looking after, not when your child is still young so can't claim you have up your career for your oh, nor when he is on what is considered just above average income himself.

As I say, unfortunately the jobs market is pretty weak. You can't just look for work. It's non existent at present

Except that's not the case. There are jobs available in care, supermarkets and a number of essential roles that are expanding
Getting one is one thing but taking the attitude that you shouldn't have to look because it's harder than normal is totally unreasonable

I have to disagree on this. I have applied for every job I could possibly do and don’t even get to the interview stage. How do you fill out those supermarket questionnaires? Friends have a pub and last year when we came out of lockdown they advertised a job for someone to work behind the bar and doing some serving of food. They were inundated. Over 130 applicants for what was a minimum wage job for about 18 hours per week.
Some of the applicants were managing directors and accountants who were between jobs.

NOT A HOPE IN HELL.....

My now OH’s EW was like you.

• Refused to get a job (the kids were in secondary)
• Demanded SM - I think it was £800 pm
• Demanded a new car
• Demanded a lump sum
• Demanded she stay in the FMH for another 11 years & he pay the mortgage then she would kindly give him 30%
• Wanted half of all his pensions (despite not having worked for circa 10 years, having no pension of her own and that had only been married 9).

It was thrown out of court very early on and a judge awarded considerably less than my now OH had offered.

She was told to get a job and support herself.

She got no SM and a 4 year stay of execution in the FMH - as she was living there she was responsible for the mortgage and then received 67% equity.

You aren’t being a good role model for your kid/s. The 1950’s little woman who stays at home and is looked after by the provider doesn’t exist anymore. Get yourself a job and provide for yourself. Your self esteem will be so much better once you are standing on your own two feet not waiting to be supported.

@Bythemillpond, but OP can claim UC and it wouldn't be u reasonable to expect her to look for a job as you are but OP seems to think she should even be made to look for one.

@Bythemillpond that’s exactly what OP needs to do. Look for a job like the rest of us. I got a new job in the pandemic. It’s not easy but not everybody is loosing jobs there’s gain too granted it’s taking longer than usual.

Have you applied for care work? Nursing homes? NHS have tons of jobs on their website.

It’s OP attitude of reluctance that is shocking. She is going to have a rude awakening. It’s the same for anybody who looses a job right now....

I don't really understand. What did you do before child OP? Will he have child 50/50 so you have time to work? Is this not a good thing? No other details on marriage/situation. I'm not in the angry get a job camp here, I'm genuinely interested. I know it can be scary but life could be good if you've got time to work and have a life?

SnickersnotMArs

Yes I have applied for care work.
Didn’t get anywhere. One of my children also applied and was the same.
A lot of the time you don’t even get a rejection letter or email.

What line of work did you do before dc? Is it something you could go back to

@Bythemillpond I hope you find something soon.

As soon as this virus is over I will have plenty of work and will return to what I was doing before but in the meantime it is so stressful trying to manage the bills. Cant believe we have used up all our savings. Cant believe we have paid every bill for nearly a year.

It's just terrible. I can't do my job as am homeschooling kids?! It's all a hideous mess.

Just because the websites say it could be argued, does not always equal, automatic success, you have to research previous cases if possible or at least get some legal services for better understanding, rather than just going off of x websites.

Job market is tough and thats why you claim uc until you can get a job.
I have applied for all sorts and apart from some temp work , most don't get back to you and agency said 200 applications plus for jobs .
All depends on area you are in etc

Right, so to confirm, it looks like from your posts that there's not much point then in trying to get SM. Though what if his salary goes up to 50k? He's been on the increase over the years. Is that more viable then? Where does it cross the line? Obviously even at 50k if its still not viable I need to know, because if I go to a solicitor somepoint, I don't want them to string me along, all the while they know the chances of success are slim. I doubt they'd be so honest as to tell me to forget it from the outset. I'm sure their hourly rate isn't too appealing either, unless it'd only take a few hours for them to write a statement in support and fill out any court forms.

Yes, I'm in his mortgaged place which he bought after we married. But the mortgage is £330 a month, £80k equity and another £50k still to pay off - and after reading the mortgage take over guides, I don't think I'd be eligible to be put on it to pay it, and our child would be allowed to remain until 18. So basically, he's got to pay the CM and at least the mortgage. Though whether him paying the mortgage counts as SM (and thus is deducted from UC) I don't know. What happens in that situation?

So basically, he's got to pay the CM and at least the mortgage

No, he doesn’t.

What are you reading? Have you had actual
Legal advice?

If you aren’t employed obviously you can’t take on the mortgage in your name. So either a sale will be forced, and the assets split, or he stays on the mortgage and the house is sold when your child turns 18.

Can he afford to buy or rent a place suitable for your child? That will factor in to a decision as well.

I would say you’ll get about 12% of his gross pay-£350 a month child maintenance and that’s that. The house will be sold and you’ll both a have to fund your own property.

He won’t have to pay the mortgage on a house that you live in, and the rest of his salary is entirely his own.

Ok I’m no solicitor but

Blimey, it’s not getting through is it

You have zero chance of SM. At 40k, at 50k. It’s rare at 190k so your best putting that out of your mind. He doesn’t owe you that

His only legal obligation is CM. Not paying your mortgage too. Not topping your income (benefits) up to what you think you need.

The house equity and other assets like pensions are in the pot for negotiation but assume a start point of 50:50. You may get more though

Get proper advice. They’ll set you straight

this cannot be real 🤔

The house will have to be sold, you will probably get slightly more equity than him if you are the RP but he's not going to have to pay anything on top of CM.

My friends ex earns 250k and she didn't get SM awarded.

Your maintenance will be reduced based on the number of nights he has your joint child.

You are incredibly unlikely to be awarded spousal maintenance.

It’s not guaranteed that you can stay in the house - he could force a sale and share equity with you. He has no obligation to house you. He has an obligation to provide for his child.

The courts will expect you to earn your own money unless there are exceptional circumstances. He is not required to “meet your needs”. You don’t seem to understand what divorce actually is - it’s the dissolution of a marriage. He will have no further responsibility to you, financially or otherwise. His responsibility is towards children. Not you.

If you cannot demonstrate you are actively seeking employment you would be sanctioned by UC.

With all respect you need a reality check.