Husband Only Declared 2 years Pension Should Be 23 !! Raging!

[Mummykins54]

My husband and I are separating - been married 23 years. He is fizzing mad that I am due half of his pension and has been stalling providing the figures to my lawyer. I was a full time mum for a good part of the marriage.

Today, much to my disgust, the pension figure arrived at my lawyers. He has declared 2 years pension from 2018 until 2020 - value `18k. His pension scheme changed from a defined benefits to a defined contribution scheme in 2018 - he is trying to pull a fast one here! He has not declared the value of the pension from 1997 (marriage year) until Aug 2020 (separation date). I am absolutely livid. His pension scheme was excellent and I am sure will be worth a lot of money.

Any advice - my lawyer is going to pursue but I feel it won't be easy getting this information from him.

I know he has to declare all pension figures so he is being really immature acting this way.

He has made it crystal clear that he is bitter about me getting half of his pension - btw he is due half of mine worth 120k !

Thoughts ladies - just need to vent!

We are selling the family home - but I want the split etc agreed in writing before we do so and this is only holding things up.

His pension scheme changed from a defined benefits to a defined contribution scheme in 2018

Maybe he is, maybe he isn’t. The figure does sound low. Is it cash value or the estimated per annum drawdown/annuity at retirement?

Many employers when they switch from defined benefits to contribution based buy out the employee with a lump sum to the contribution based pension when it opens and then scrap the defined benefit pension altogether. In other words, they don’t often have both a defined pension program with grandfathered employees running at the same time as a contribution based pension for employees.

I think your solicitor could find out with a call to his company’s HR whether he’s hiding a defined benefit pension or not.

Hi PlanDeRaccordement

He definitely did not receive a lump sum - the 18k is the CETV from his defined contributions scheme. He would not be absolutely livid over sharing 18k. When he transferred to the new scheme the employer increased their contributions for a short while as recompense.

He is trying to pull a fast one here.

You are not necessarily due half
But yes your solicitor will work on getting accurate valuations

Do you have access to any old payslips/P45/P60?

Millymollymoomoo

I have been informed by my lawyer I am due half for the duration of our 23 year marriage. My husband knows this which is why he is not declaring his full pension figure. That is the law in Scotland.

And Frustrated - unfortunately not but I know he has been paying into a pension for the duration of our marriage.

Ok, you had not stated Scotland in your op

Ok, so they upped contributions instead of lump sum. That’s one way to compensate existing employees when switching over.

But my point still stands, in many companies when they switch to a contribution based pension, they close their defined benefit pension so it ceases to exist. They could have for example, had your husband sign a new employment contract in 2018 in which his defined pension was erased completely like he never had it. See:
www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/guides/closing-defined-benefit-pension-schemes

A solicitor call to the company HR to ask about how they closed their defined benefit pension for employees with a start date of 1997 would answer whether or not he’s trying to pull a fast one or not.

Of course he’s pulling a fast one, 21 years of defined benefits contributions would be a great deal more than 18k even on a low salary.

• more than 18k CETV, apologies

PlandeRacordment slightly off topic but what would happen yo all the money paid into the defined benefit scheme if it closed and 'ceased to exist' as you suggested? It can't just disappear.

@Itsorange

PlandeRacordment slightly off topic but what would happen yo all the money paid into the defined benefit scheme if it closed and 'ceased to exist' as you suggested? It can't just disappear.

What happens to your benefits on wind up: “Your right to benefits under the scheme is worked out according to the rules of the scheme. If you have not yet taken your benefits, the trustees will work out your transfer value.“... “If you haven't taken your benefits you can choose to transfer them to another scheme”... “If your benefit value is lower than a limit set by the Government each year, you may be able to take a 'winding-up' lump sum.Click here for details of how a winding-up lump sum is taxed.”

My employer (who operates a final salary scheme) is trying to avoid paying into the scheme because it is becoming too expensive and suggesting to all employees that the scheme is wound up and replaced by a money purchase scheme. What actions can we take?

The employer must ensure that they are aware of the measures introduced in the Pensions Act 2004 that prevent employers walking away from their responsibilities under final salary schemes. The Pension Regulator’s website provides further details on this.

If the employer decides to cease funding for the accrual of future benefits, then so long as they follow any required consultations with employees and any Trade Union, there is nothing which can be done to prevent this happening, as it is invariably a commercial decision by the employer. The employer is the sponsor of the scheme and if he ceases his contributions to the scheme, this may trigger a wind up under the scheme rules. The only option is then for the employees to try and convince the employer to pay as much as he can afford into the replacement money purchase scheme, as the employer contribution is likely to be much less to the money purchase scheme than his contribution to the final salary scheme.

www.pensionsadvisoryservice.org.uk/pension-problems/pension-security/your-scheme-is-winding-up

Ladies he is pulling a fast one as he was jumping mad at having to share half of it with me. I have a defined benefits pension - worked with the company for 8 years and it is worth £112k ! He works for a well known employer with a fab pension scheme pre 2018 - it will have been closed - he just doesn't want to provide the CETV figure . There would have been an uproar in that company if they just closed the scheme.

I just found this - so his defined benefits pension is protected

Current BTPS members will become deferred BTPS members. All existing benefits accrued at that point will be protected.

I think it sounds like he didn't transfer his old one he's just retained it and started a new one in the new scheme - hence it only being worth £18k.

This is what I did when mine changed because my defined benefits was worth more left frozen so to speak. I effectively have 2 pensions but I'm only paying into (and therefore increasing the value) of one.

He's definitely pulling a fast one!

Thanks for the info PlanDeRaccordement.

Mummykins I can understand his upset as I'm in a similar position to him and going through the process. ExH opted out of every workplace pension scheme he could have joined in order to maximise his income to fund his drug habit, so as you can imagine how it galls me to have to give him anything, never mind half my final salary pension. However, that is the way it is, so your ex will have to get used to the idea. Playing games now will do him no favours.
As you know he is protective of his pension you could use that to gain a bigger share of other assets which may be of greater immediate value and benefit to you in exchange for taking a lesser share of the pension, which won't benefit you immediately.

Frangipani - that is definately what he is doing - he has paid into the defined benefits one for 21 years and the other one for 2 and only provided the CETV for the last 2 years.

And Itsorange - I gave up a good job to be a full time mum. I also have a CETV worth 112k which he is due half off - so I don't think he has any reason to be upset. I looked after 2 kids then got a part time job when they were older. I have more than done my bit - he is just bitter at having to give his wife of 23 years what she is due by law and not doing himself any favours in the process.

I am not sure what the consequences of trying to hide a pension would actually be?

Mummykins54 I wasn't disputing whether you are entitled to claim half, you definitely are, irrespective of giving up work. I was just trying to give some perspective on it and suggest a different angle to take as him being this difficult at this stage is going to end up costing you both loads in legal bills.

My situation is different in that I am the main earner and have juggled being the primary carer for DC, household organiser, paid virtually all the bills and saved for the future while my exH got pissed and coked up and lost every job he has had for the past few years within a few weeks as a result. He contributed almost nothing in most respects but is still entitled to his share, now that truly is unfair! But I don't see any point in messing around and being completely unreasonable, we both need it over and done with. Your ex needs to wise up and start realising this. Good luck!

Itsorange - thank you - I am sorry for your situation - I know what it is like to deal with an addict (my son is a recovering addict).

Yes he does need to wise up. I have waited almost 2 months for this information - his statement is dated 25/8/2020 so he has held on to this until last Friday which is totally unacceptable.

I dread to think how long it is going to take to get the details of this pension from him. He can just ignore any correspondence between lawyers.

Tbh I am shocked at his almost infantile attitude. We have two teenagers - when asked why things were taking so long he said I was holding proceedings up! This is starting to affect me mentally but I need to stay strong.

Thank you for the advice

I don't blame you for being upset. I'd be fairly cross!

Are we married to the same guy?!

Mine didn't want to put forward his main pension at all in mediation, he has had to admit to it now. Like yours, he sat on statements for months. He's hiding others, I'm sure, but maintains they don't exist. It's probably not going to be worth the battle for me. I'm being up front about all of mine but he thinks the rules don't apply to him...
And he's also tried to blame me for the delays, which are all down to him.

Stay strong :)

When you submit your questionnaire for the FDA you could legitimately ask for past payslips/P45/P60 which would then give you an indication/prove that he has been contributing to a pension scheme in the past. I guess you could also ask for a copy of his work contract prior to 2018, which again may indicate whether he has a work pension...You would of course need to justify the reason for this request with the judge at the FDA. If he doesn't pay any tax on his pension then his P60 will indicate this, as it will only show his gross taxable pay. Copies of past P45s/P60s can be obtained from your online HMRC gov.uk account, so there shouldn't be any excuse why he shouldn't be able to provide this information.

I'm in Scotland too and my ExH "forgot" about some of his pension. I payed £500 to an actuary who found it all and it increased my pension share by £90000. Best £500 I ever spent! My ExH thought I wouldn't notice or would be too scared of the cost of involving an actuary. Ha!

He definitely has another pension - and it will be worth a lot of money which is why he is so angry at how "unfair" it is that I should get half.

Stormsurfer - how did an actuary find this cash - surely no one can look into his finances without his permission ?

There are forensic accountants who can track down these things but I'm not sure whether it has to be court ordered.

As far as I can remember, I supplied his date of birth,National Insurance Number, his Employers name, address, dates of employment. I think that was all. I think pensions have to be logged by National
Insurance number? Your lawyer should know.

I've just looked back over some of the paperwork and my lawyer wrote to his lawyer stating the name of the company and dates of employment and asked for vouching of the pension for that period. Hope that helps.