We don't agree on childcare split. Unsure of the next stage of the process.

[dontrecycle]

Hi
I'm seeking clarity on what to next. We don't agree on the childcare split. Not had mediation but no amount of mediation will help I don't think as we have such different expectations.
Can someone explain the next stage of the process to me?
If I 'apply to Court' is it the same court hearing that decides the split of the finances as well as the split of childcare?

I've received an email from the a mediator (instructed by him) asking me to attend mediation. His business hasn't been valued yet so we don't know the total pot of money. Should I say I agree to mediation but only when we know the final figures?

His pensions/shares are really complicated so I'll need financial advice before I agree to anything.

Would it be ok to reply to say that I want my solicitor with me during the financial discussion?

My friends have recently been through a divorce. They decided to sell the family home, split the proceeds 50:50. No maintenance and their DC (he’s five) spends alternative weeks with each parent.

Thank you @Parker231 but he hasn't done 50/50 in the past and I honestly don't think it would be good for the kids. He doesn't do homework or reading. Refused to join the school email newsletter so has no idea about school trips or own clothes day. He's bad tempered and impatient especially with the youngest.

I think it's best they spend more time with me. Both are possibly adhd- undiagnosed but the school have suggested further assessments. I think they need a permanent base that's ordered and calm.

@dontrecycle Then, if he won't agree to that, he can initiate court proceedings, and you can both argue your case in court. Even if the children's main base is with you, though, that may take the form of a 60/40 split, so you may need to start getting your head around the possibility that you may not have as much time with your kids as you want.

I don’t know but it can be useful to work out his motivations. I’m moving 300 miles away, but it took a couple of years for Ex to agree. He initially said he wanted joint physical custody. Which is crazy as he does almost zero parenting. He would farm childcare out to his sister.

My solicitor said it was his Ego, and many men are like this in her experience. She’s not a man hating harridan, so I kind of believed her. On separation, she said sometimes it is especially the Dads who have done less who are quite forceful about 50/50. They want to show the world that aren’t abandoning the family. They can’t lose really as if they accept less than 50/50, they can say that they tried, they would have done it. Reality is your Ex seems to have made no real effort to understand what his kids need, and will not parent 50/50, but stick them in front of the TV.

My own father did this. He wanted full custody of me because he’s so delusional he thought he still thought he was a great Dad. Reality was he abandoned family life. Family is what he was running away from. After divorce I didn’t see him for a year.

With my ex I patiently listened to concerns, and gave him time. I just kept reiterating that I needed to move. He couldn’t hear my reasons, for many months. But in the end he wants his freedom more than a fight about custody. Because all along his reasons for separation are not to be a father. He doesn’t want to be. He will make up in his mind that the reasons for separation are me. But it’s not true.

So I think you will find your Ex doesn’t really have the fight for 50/50. Because he doesn’t really want 50/50. He wants that easy route. So just stick to your reasons and put your kids at the heart of it. As their main carer you’ve always done this.

Thank you everyone. Are there any solicitors on here who can advise what I need to do next when it comes to replying to the mediator?

I was going to reply that as his business isn't valued yet we are not in a position to discuss the split of the finances but I'm willing to go to mediation once all of the information is available. Does this sound reasonable?

For those of you suggesting my own solicitor for advise I do have one but she is furloughed.

If your solicitor isn't available then you need another one. You must have someone who is very good at family law.

You having given up your career for his will be accounted for. There are various other entitlements. There is also your option to require half of all assets and half of his pension, etc.

Don't mess around with this. Don't go into mediation with no plan. You may feel pressured (by yourself) to seem 'reasonable' and agree to something. You MUST act under the advice of a solicitor.

Regarding children, it does sound as if there are reasonable concerns from his conduct up to now that he isn't good as giving them educational support. However, as someone has said, that doesn't mean he can't start to try. In any application to the court, his known behaviour would have to be clearly listed as part of your reasoning for wanting the children more. Again, though, this might not be considered sufficient reason to set 70:30. It will be up to what the court considers in the best interests of the children. It may find that indeed you have more time for them particularly re school, and that you have been the sole provider of this support. As someone mentioned, a common split is:
Every other weekend
One school pick up (but maybe not overnight as disruptive for school morning - back to you by 7pm)
Half the holidays (arranged so they don't have to go a long chunk without seeing either of you)

Ideally they wouldn't go longer than about 4/5 days without seeing him in term time.

The same court does finances and arrangements for children. Both issues can be dealt with in the same hearing.

I would answer the mediation request that you are very happy to come to mediation, but as all the relevant information isn't yet available, suggest the meeting is held when it is, as nothing can be agreed until you have that.

You need a solicitor also for checking spousal maintenance. If he's been the earner and you've looked after kids and home, aside from child maintenance you may be able to apply for maintenance for yourself, so you can continue to live in the manner you have during the marriage.

He has had advice and you haven't. You can't go into this unprotected. Get a good solicitor.

💐

Why wouldn't 50 50 be good for the children? More like you're after more money from the maintenance.

They are only 6 and 9 op, no need to fret about homework and reading. Let him try 50/50 on an informal trial basis and see how it goes. I can't see how it would be bad for the kids.

50:50 when one parent shows no interest in them? Doesn't spend time with them? Hasn't bothered to care for them so far?

If we split DH could go for and get 50:50 because he's an involved dad- not across the board, but in many ways. He could learn about the other ways.

A man who hasn't made an effort, who gets a female relative to step in or sticks them in front of the tv is not a good enough parent for 50:50.

Does he work Mon - Fri ? If so agree to 50/50 but make sure it is an even split of weekend/weekday time. He has to sort his work to fit round school or find childcare. This will give you more opportunity to work.

If he needs you to do school runs he can't have them 50/50 and must pay maintenance.

I wouldn't agree to mediation until all his finances were in - the financial form and you have checked that you don't think he is hiding anything. You need to go for a clean break and assume you will never get a penny from him in maintenance as he is self employed!

Same for residency, I would ask him to put his proposal of how the 50:50 split would work. It's likely to restrict where you both live etc. It will give and insight into what he is thinking.

Usual 50:50 is alternate weeks or a 2,2,3 pattern...has it even occurred to him he will need to pay for childcare?

Thanks everyone. Because I am a reasonable and fair person I just wanted to check. I only want what is fair, nothing more.

My original (now furloughed) solicitor suggested a type of mediation where she could also attend and support me. I only partly recall the conversation as it was a meeting where I got v upset.

For further context he lied on form e to say a building owned by his pension was worth £100k less than the valuation so I know I need to be careful.

As company director he earns hardly anything but has paid himself £££ in dividends over the years. Since I served papers last year (him knowing for months before too) the business mysteriously started to make less money. He will pay himself less dividends last year and this year to make it look like he earns less than me.

I have a solicitor talking over my case but she is slow to reply. Original one came highly recommended by my barrister friend and has been great.

Thanks again. I sometimes can't see what's 'next' in this situation. Like many people you suddenly become the best expert while you're going through it.

May be worth getting a forensic accountant as he is already concealing stuff.

Remember you can tell the CMS that his lifestyle doesn't match his declared income and ask them to take his dividend payments into account.

Absolutely haggle did a high percentage as a clean break knowing that he is being deceitful in order to pay out less and will not be fair about paying maintenance

@RandomMess the forensic accountant has been instructed.

Honestly at the start he was all 'oh we don't need solicitors we can work this out ourselves' 🤷‍♀️

That was clearly code for "I want to keep it all for myself so I'm hoping I can bully you in mediation for peanuts"

Mediation isn't even legally binding...

If he wants 50/50 you better make the judge aware that that means half of every working weekday he during the holidays too. He’s obviously not going to give up work is he. It’s you that’s structured your career around the kids. If you can provide care for them without childcare then those days are rightfully yours.

*cant

50/50 is miserable for kids if one parent isn't interested in supporting school work, extra curricular clubs and their friendships.

Worth reminding him that if he has 50:50 then he'll be responsible for 50% of childcare costs like out of school club, holiday club etc. Often that's more expensive than paying maintenance

The mediation type with her present is called Collaboration. Not all lawyers can offer it. It has a downside in that if the process fails and you need to go to Court you cannot be represented by that lawyer. You’d have to find a new one (so would he).

@TheBusDriver

Why wouldn't 50 50 be good for the children? More like you're after more money from the maintenance.

No evidence at all that 50/50 is best for children automatically. And some evidence that unless there is high cooperation and low conflict, it can be harmful.

It's a small business. He's already making noises that he can't provide all the info required for the forensic accountant.
Same question as previous, what happens next?
I'm beginning to bore myself...

Seriously thank you for replying. Not sure if you are solicitors or if you've just been through it but your step by step guides are helping me more than you'll ever know xx

If you look at the cons calculator you will get barely anything on £8,000 a year I don't think they class dividends as income yet so child maintenance is a bust