Is there anyone that thinks my position is wrong on this?

[howdeydudey]

I have 2 children (g10 and b8) and separated from their mother in 2015. I'm very lucky in that we have a shared-care court order stating they are with me 5 nights out of 14 during term times and half of holidays.

However just before the final hearing in 2017 where that order was made, I was taken ill with cancer. This was treated with surgery, but in late 2018 they found it had moved. This was also treated, but at this point I started to ask the kids mother if we could move to 50/50 so the children could spend more time with me.
She actually responded saying that they children shouldn't spend more time with me because "if the worst happened, they would miss me more". I applied to the court and to be honest, I was staggered in the final hearing last October when they decided to make no changes to the current order. I simply can't understand why. I have always been a part of their lives, have always been there, have been involved with the school and extra-curricular activities. I've never been abusive to them, and they love being with me. I live a 5 minute drive from their mother so I could still take them to school etc. And it actually seems that their behaviour and general happiness is better when they are with me than her (she has mentioned at a school meeting that they have issues when they are with her.)

It appears that the cancer has now come back, and in a place where it is not possible to remove with surgery. The reality is that I may not have too many more years with them. I have tried to put myself in the position of a child in this situation and I firmly believe I'd want to spend as much time as possible with my father while he was fit and able to do fun things, and of course if the worst was to happen, I'd want to spend as much time with him before he wasn't around any more.

In fact, I am sure if I ever discovered that my mother had blocked this from happening, I would resent her for it forever.

I've explained this to the children's mother, but she is refusing to even discuss them spending more time with me. So it now looks like returning to court is my only option.

Can anyone provide a solid defence of the mother's position? Or indeed why the courts would be opposed to this?

I guess I'm asking more for court preparation reasons, but of course if anyone has a good argument for why this might be the wrong thing to do for the children, I'd be really interested to hear it so I can consider it.

I’m sorry to hear of your Illness

While I can’t see why it’s right you don’t have 50:50 in practical terms is your Illness likely to mean hospital trips, treatment it periods of illness where it might be difficult fir you to care for your children?

I can see why your ex might be thinking that the children need stability in one home

What do the children want ?

OP, I am very sorry to hear about your illness and you sound like a great dad. It must all be very painful.

You have asked for insight and I can maybe share a bit, because my ex also has advanced cancer. He has always been a very full on, decent dad. I have not limited my dd's contact with him in any way.

However, I do see reasonable arguments for not increasing contact. Firstly, your desire to do so feels (understandably) motivated by your need to pack in as much rich experience as possible with them - I would say more for your sake than for theirs. For them, I can imagine this being quite disorientating and overwhelming - not without pressure ("daddy's sick so we have to do all this stuff, have all these magic moments, and if I don't fully enjoy and be a wonderful kid for him during this time I am failing him").

Also, and sorry to be blunt, I think your ex has some point. Though sounds like she expressed it without much nuance. For the children, it is vital that they have a secure base that is there for the long term.... and also, is there with space relatively away from the stress of illness and hospital visits, while you are ill. Of course they must know what is happening, so they can emotionally adjust, but this is one advantage children of divorced parents have if a parent is seriously sick - that they have a parental base away from the site of stress and illness that will remain unaltered throughout. That does not mean that contact with the sick parent should be reduced, but to increase it to 'pack in good experiences' just to then withdraw it more painfully if things go bad does not feel like a process focussed on the child's wellbeing.

Neither is spending valuable time you have wrapped up in court, or putting your children through the stress of telling a court whether they want to spend more time with their sick daddy.

If at all possible, I would spend your time and energy working things out with your ex instead - in a way totally centred on your children's wellbeing. Read some books and guides on how to support children through parental illness and do it together.

I have sat with my ex and worked out and agreed the best way to talk about his illness so they can understand it and cope with anything that comes. I have made our schedules totally flexible so he can have them on days he is well, and I am with them in days when he is in the hospital/ not well. We both tell her any key events/ developments together. While he is unable to do active things, I have taken over doing those things, and don't watch fun movies etc with her, so he still has something to do with her that is special, despite his limitations....

But piling in extra time with him I don't think would be better for her. It is incredibly stressful having a sick parent, and time away from that is extremely important, as is encouraging the children to continue all their hobbies/ interests etc independent of their parents....

I hate to speak bluntly, but if you are to lose your life, then your ultimate objective in your remaining time is to help them be strong, resilient, and able to cope without you. It sounds like you already spend so much time with them they will be packed full of happy memories, regardless of whether you increase your contact. And they already have no doubt that they are loved deeply.

I hope this helps and am sorry if any of it is upsetting.

Very sorry for your illness

But unless anything has changed then it's pointless going back to court surely?

Another couple of thoughts OP. If it does sadly come to a question of memories for your children, the quality and feel of those memories will be much more important than their quantity. If you are sick, I think it is best by far to rest and then make the time you have with them warm, calm and focused on them....

Finally, the best possible thing you can do for your kids right now is get better if at all possible, or live healthier for longer, if not. Sometimes that means resting when you would rather be with them. That is better than being super dad now, and possibly shortening their time with you. I apologize - I don't know anything about how your illness is progressing or affecting you, but my ex has often pushed himself to be with my dd when really he isn't well enough. It comes from good intent, but it is not a good experience for her, and it also lessens his ability to fight his illness....

I have told him everybody has their job. His ultimate job is to get better or lengthen his life, and do the dad things he can that matter most while he does that. My job is to be the secure parent who is ultimately responsible for looking after our dd. Trying to do both fully at once for him, is more than anyone can do.

I am sorry to hear of your illness and I hope that you will be able to recover.

First and foremost, in court decisions, it is about the wishes and interests of the children. The court when it made the order will have taken this into account. Whilst understandable, your desire to see more of your children seems to be motivated by what you want and think is best for them.

I know this is not your point, but I think it is sad you raise that the children are better behaved with you because of what their mum said openly and transparently at a school meeting. She is the person who has them most of the time, and it is to her they are most likely to express their issues because that is where the emotional trust is.

The children are quite young and have already gone through two court processes. That in itself is disruptive. Surely as part of that, the children’s views were taken. So they know there has been that stress and uncertainty between their parents. I honestly would not add more.

I agree with the poster who said use the time you are not with them to rest and focus on recovery if that is possible and enjoy the time you do have with them. It is such a burden to put on children to be there for you in the way you suggest if this is not what already happens or what happens naturally.

I am sorry

Thanks for the replies, all. I'll attempt to answer your questions here.

Unfortunately due to a string of false allegations she made and her total refusal to communicate on matters that don't directly work in her favour, there is no way to work on things with my ex. That is just a dead end I'm afraid. My ex has never, and almost certainly never will be flexible in the way you describe. She continues to make unilateral decisions - sometimes quite bad ones. I'm pleased for you that you worked things out the way you did but this just isn't going to work that way for us.

This isn't about packing in rich experiences. I probably worded it badly. It's just about doing the things we already do. It's not a massive change to the children's lives - just 1 night a week, which to be fair even without the illness I think they should have had anyway. I've been asking for this for years now. The hospital visits etc will happen anyway. Just as the have in recent years. The children have been shielded from the worst of it and have formed a wonderful relationship with my parents that their mother used to stifle. It's been wonderful to see them grow so close. My parents are able to help if things are really bad, and I have a great support network. But I've already gone through 3 operations and chemo, and other than when actually in hospital, no matter how tired I've been, I've managed to have quality time with the children, even if that is just watching films, reading to them, or being silly and laughing.

You ask what my children want. My son doesn't really express an opinion. I've not asked my daughter directly, because I don't want to put her in the middle of things. I talked to the children about the court process last time. I told them that mummy and daddy are both trying to do the best thing for them, but that we don't agree on what the best thing is so we've asked the court to help us. When nothing changed, my daughter asked why they hadn't asked her opinion. I think she would prefer things to be equal. That's the feeling I get.

This isn't really about the extra time for me. I genuinely believe that given that I've been trying to arrange 50/50 care for a few years now, if the worst happens, they will hold it against their mother that it never happened. I know that is how I would feel if I was that child.

I do appreciate that it looks like I'm doing this for my own reasons. And of course I don't deny that I would love extra time with them. But this isn't my main driving reason. I think they will be a lot better off for a more even pattern of handover, removing the 7 day spell were they don't see me every other week, and also knowing that their mother supported them seeing me more.

Thanks for the feedback - certainly some things to think about.

I think you have a good case for the court to get a bit more time.
However, I would not focus on 50/50. That extra day each week will probably be a school day. How much would you and children actually gain from that? Not much. And ex can argue that any more time with you would disrupt their education and daily routine. Mess with her childcare contracts etc etc.

Instead I would put a plea into the courts that during school holidays, you get more than half due to your life limiting illness. Because after you die, the children would then have the rest of their holidays 100% with mum. So I’d ask for getting the children for all their holidays except a few weeks each summer with mum for a holiday with her and a week with mum over Christmas.

You can underline that mum will need the extra free childcare from you during half term breaks and so on to better establish her career and earning power for when you are gone, so goes your child maintenance funds and other financial help you give her.

That’s what I would do in your shoes.

Present it as a win-win. Don’t make it all about you and what you want.

Oh and ignore the comments that imply “more time with you is not in children’s best interest because it will hurt more when you die”
That is complete crap. No one who is an actual caring human being has ever said when a close relative dies that they regretted spending more time with them before the end. No, it’s always a wish that they had spent more time! Never a wish that they had spent less time.

I was staggered in the final hearing last October when they decided to make no changes to the current order. I simply can't understand why.

Well, what did the judgment say?

If my ex-husband, their dad, had limited time with our children, and I had the rest of their lives, I would let him have the children 50/50 at least.

Not all women fight against men.

In the meantime if I had limited time I would make some video diaries for them about you, privately, give them fatherly advice you would say on their wedding day, leaving school, passing their driving test. Talk about you, your politics, best memories, childhood favourite sweets, best holidays etc. Leave them with a trusted friend/ grandparent. Write them a birthday card/present every year until they are 30.

Yeah I get what you are saying. Try the gentle approach with your ex. Can you not try via her parents, your parents, anything that isn't court?

There is no way of getting through to the mother. I already approached her - she won't even discuss the matter. She ignores the advice even of her closest friends. Court is the only way that has ever proven successful at getting any serious movement from her. At the beginning, she didn't even agree with the children staying overnight with me. She got nothing she was asking for during the first court process - that's how far away from reality her suggestions were.

Believe me, court is the last thing I need too - I have other things to focus on. But at the same time, I still think spending more time with me is the best thing for the children. Almost everyone I've spoken with agrees.

The idea of video diaries is a lovely one - kind of makes me thing of After Life on Netflix.

Is it just one extra night per week that you are fighting for?

@HeddaGarbled

Is it just one extra night per week that you are fighting for?

In simple terms yes, it's just one night per week more - but it's more than that in a way. At present the pattern is such that there is a 10 day period every other week where they only get 4 hours of usable quality time with me, and there is a full 7 day period every other week where they don't see me at all. I think they feel this imbalance a lot. My suggestion is to move to a 2-2-3 pattern. We live 5 minutes apart, they have everything the need in both households, so this wouldn't be as disruptive as it might sound. And my belief (hope) is that this might actually force the mother to communicate with me more too. At present, she might ask my opinion on things, but then will just ignore it and do what she wants anyway. The 2-2-3 arrangement would make it so we are both forced to consider the other's opinions more on things such as extra-curricular activities for example, as each week it would fall with a different parent. I think this would be a positive thing as we'd both have to support the activities, would both have feedback etc... It might not work for everyone, but I believe in our case this would be a huge positive for the children.

What was the reason stated for making no changes to the arrangement last time it went to court? This is quite key as to whether it still applies or not and therefore the likelihood of success this time. The other matter is whether the children would be ask their views this time.

Do they know your situation? Are they recieving counselling?

Is a 2-2-3 pattern one your children would want or would this just make them feel as though they have no base? I wouldn't want that for my DC's as would hate it for myself but I agree 7 days without any contact is too long.

Fixed days are probably easiest in terms of everyone knowing what they are doing and being able to arrange lives around it.

Tbh, things don't sounds particularly amicable so perhaps she doesn't want to communicate with you more. Having too much cross over could make what sounds like an already strained relationship worse which would be a shame for all of you.

Hi think the last pp is right.

OP, your last two posts really don't go well together. If it is impossible to collaborate with her, then having a schedule that demands constant collaboration is going to mean that you will fill your children's life with constant strife.

I am sorry but I really don't see how it will make your children's lives better....

You should probably have had 50/50 to begin with. The problem is courts don't like to mess with routines. So whatever the kids are used to courts generally seem to stick to as long as there is a reasonable amount of contact.

To reply to the last few posts, it is not impossible to collaborate with her. It's just that because most days are exlcucsively hers, she doesn't have to. This has lead to scenarios where she will sign the kids up for things and then send me a bill (saying "it's great for the kids, I'm sure you'll want to support this)... Clearly this is wrong and the communication should take place first, but the current arrangement causes her to think this isn't necessary.

The only days that are consistently alternated so far are weekends. The children both have a dance class on Saturday mornings. This is the only one of many extra curricular activities they do that hasn't caused issues, precisely because the mother and I both needed to agree. We both take them (or do online classes at the moment) alternately, and we split the cost evenly. This works well.

Classes which fall purely on her days (or ones where the current handover is soon after the activity) have caused all the issues.

There wouldn't be a demand for constant collaboration. It would just mean that both parents would have to agree to all extra curricular activities. In other words, she won't be able to keep making (often bad) unilateral decisions. This can only be a good thing in my view.

In short - the children's lives are already filled with constant strife because the imbalance in time makes the mother act like my opinions don't matter. 50/50 should remove this notion and make her realise that she isn't more important than I am in their lives, we are legally equal. The communication is hard, but it does work when it has to. She just doesn't think is has to...

I mean this kindly but you are using the children to point score here. The activities are clearly an issue which should be addressed but your post suggests you are using the DC's to create, in your view, a more level playing field.

The bigger question really and what I'm sure the courts will be interested in is, do you think the DC's would benefit from being constantly shifted around in a 2-2-3 pattern? Do you think it's reasonable to ask ask them to sleep somewhere different every couple of days? What is the benefit vs cost to them and could you achieve what you want (more time together) in a different way?

I would have really good think about it. You have been to court twice and not managed to change much. There's a reason for this. Have a think about why and work from there.

Classes which fall purely on her days (or ones where the current handover is soon after the activity) have caused all the issues.

What does this mean? How have Activities caused issues?

I agree with the court tbh. I can’t see how the children benefit From not having a base.

I feel like we've drifted from the core reason I wanted to address a bit...

If I was a child, and my mother stopped me from seeing as much as possible of a potentially dying father, I would resent and possibly hate my mother for it.

To me, this is a far worse impact on the children than moving around a lot (which they do anyway).

Regarding having a base - they already have 2 homes. They have their own rooms at mine (share a room at mothers), their own clothes - everything they need. You can't really say they have a single base at the moment. And mostly, they are happy with it. The part they don't seem to like is not the week with all the back and forth, but the 7 days where they don't see me.

So I am considering what I think their feelings are. It might not work for everyone, but for my children that is what I observe.

I feel like we've drifted from the core reason I wanted to address a bit... because you know how it makes you look.

I think I would be appalled my father would use his illness to try to manipulate me as a child and control my mother, and ignore a courts ruling twice. I would think my father was incredibly selfish to upset my mother And tarnish our last memories, knowing full well she would be the one left to deal with the emotional impact for years to come of losing our father. And as i got to be an adult, i would realise the fill extent of my father’s controlling and selfish ways when i thought back to how he wanted control over what activities i loved and did as a child...

The last person you ate thinking of here is your child. You're being incredibly selfish and arrogant. You sound like you recuse to listen to anyone else's opinion and you know best.

Classes which fall purely on her days (or ones where the current handover is soon after the activity) have caused all the issues.

Again, what does this mean? How have Activities caused issues? What is the issue?

@LorenzoVonMatterhorn

I feel like we've drifted from the core reason I wanted to address a bit... because you know how it makes you look.

I think I would be appalled my father would use his illness to try to manipulate me as a child and control my mother, and ignore a courts ruling twice. I would think my father was incredibly selfish to upset my mother And tarnish our last memories, knowing full well she would be the one left to deal with the emotional impact for years to come of losing our father. And as i got to be an adult, i would realise the fill extent of my father’s controlling and selfish ways when i thought back to how he wanted control over what activities i loved and did as a child...

The last person you ate thinking of here is your child. You're being incredibly selfish and arrogant. You sound like you recuse to listen to anyone else's opinion and you know best.

Classes which fall purely on her days (or ones where the current handover is soon after the activity) have caused all the issues.

Again, what does this mean? How have Activities caused issues? What is the issue?

You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but I am certainly not trying to manipulate my children. I have not involved them in this. You are making quite a lot of assumptions. For example, the children don't love all the activities at all. Some caused our daughter quite a lot of anxieties exams her mother made her feel she had to do. The mother has since stopped these activities of her own accord... Like I said, to me she is making often bad choices - I see the fallout from that. In addition she signed them up for things that caused them to be late for handovers during the very short overnight stay where they only had a few quality hours with me over a 10 day period. She did this without checking with me, and only informed me after they had started. She then gave me the option of her removing the children from the activity early every other week to come to me on time (which of course I would not ask them to do) or be late and lose time they were supposed to be with me. I would argue that this is manipulative and controlling.

However, I didn't wish to go in to more details than that about the activities because my question was about how people generally feel about children not being given the most time possible with a dying parent. You have offered your view and I thank you for that. I'm happy for you to disagree.

However, I don't think that me disagreeing with you deserves you throwing abuse at me. Calling me "controlling", "selfish", "arrogant" - this really isn't necessary, is it? ... Basically. you are saying the mother should be able to be controlling and selfish (because that is what has happened) and I should just leave that as it is? I appreciate your opinion, but respectfully I don't agree. And your argument hasn't convinced me to yet.

I understand that point people are making around the 2-2-3 - but as I've said, they already go back and forth a lot one week, and then nothing the next. It's feast/famine for them and I don't feel that is best for them. 2-2-3 isn't perfect, I agree, but so far I still think it is better than what happens at the moment.

Unfortunately, the mother might indeed be the one to deal with the emotional fallout. That will be the case no matter how much time the children spend with me, no?

The thing is, you asked for people to agree with you that the mother and the courts are wrong and youre right.

People have said the courts are right. You can ask the same question over and over, and keep dragging the woman who will be left to deal with this for the long term to court and back, but it is not in the best interests of the children.

It is mot in the best interests of the children.

Someone asked this earlier What was the reason stated for making no changes to the arrangement last time it went to court? as they might have been able to advise better knowing why nothing was changed. What reason did the court give?

@LorenzoVonMatterhorn

The thing is, you asked for people to agree with you that the mother and the courts are wrong and youre right.

People have said the courts are right. You can ask the same question over and over, and keep dragging the woman who will be left to deal with this for the long term to court and back, but it is not in the best interests of the children.

It is mot in the best interests of the children.

Someone asked this earlier What was the reason stated for making no changes to the arrangement last time it went to court? as they might have been able to advise better knowing why nothing was changed. What reason did the court give?

Some people have given some very valid reasons why the courts might not want to make a change. All of those have been noted and I'm thankful for them. @BraveGoldie for example had some opinions that were against mine, were presented well, had solid reasoning and have given me something to think about - as have others too.

You are simply stating "it s not in the best interests of the children" over and over. That is your viewpoint. It might be right. It might be wrong. But you are the one who is insisting you are right and not actually considering that you might be wrong.

You are correct - I missed the question about why the court made no changes. It is a valid question. First, I didn't have suspected terminal cancer then. I was in remission and was clear at that point. I'd say that was quite a big change.

Second, their mother lied about a recent diagnosis our daughter had for autism, stating that changes in routine are bad. While that is usually the case, the doctor who diagnosed her actually commented that the way I communicate with her is much more in tune with her needs, and she basically advised that any sensitive matters should be dealt with by me and not the mother. I wasn't given a chance to provide this in court. It is also very mild aspergers and she actually deals with change very well if given the correct support.

The court didn't say that 50/50 was a bad thing, or that they endorsed the current arrangement. What they said was that they expected us to work together to resolve it as we know better what is right for the children than the court do. The mother has basically used that as a reason to do the opposite and stop communicating at all.

Finally, you keep stating what is in the best interests of the children as if your opinions are fact (ironically the thing you are accusing me of). Yet you also keep talking about "the woman who will be left to deal with this for the long term"... I don't care about their mother or what she has to deal with - this isn't about what is best for her. It is indeed solely about the children.

I'm simply asking if people think children with a ill parent should be able to spend more time with that parent, if possible, or not. I'm happy to hear all views on this, but you seem to have a different agenda, and one that has made you resort to name-calling.

The argument about how any extra time should work is valid. I understand why people feel there is no "base". But the idea of shared care, which we have remember, is that the children have 2 homes. That is the whole point. Rather than having one base, they have two.

Many people have made some good comments and arguments - thank you for those. They have made me think, and I've taken them on board, but at the moment, I am still of the opinion that if I were one of my children, I would want to spend more time with a parent who might not be around much longer. Nobody has yet made me feel any different about this. I am also certain that I personally would hate my mother for doing what she is. Not everyone will share this view. I understand that. But nonetheless, that is my view still at this point.