Attempting to co-parent with shift worker ex

therearebugsinthepool · 2020-05-31T15:58:37+00:00

Has anyone had any experience of co-parenting with an ex who works shifts? Briefly, I believe he is a narcissist and it's looking like we are going to have to go down the mediation / court route. Ex works shifts, he only get 8 weeks in advance. Doesn't share his shifts with me so dictates when he wants DD. If I say no that doesn't work for us then I am 'being unreasonable', or 'blocking contact'. I was wondering what the courts would say in regards to contact and the fact he works shifts?

OnlyJudyCanJudgeMe · 31/05/2020 17:05

Courts will say he has to tell you his shifts in advance & arrange contact that way.

june2007 · 31/05/2020 17:10

Well if he gets the shifts 8 wks in advance I imagine the court would say that's when you need to arrange the contacts.

Original poster

therearebugsinthepool · 31/05/2020 17:13

When he gets his shifts he will tell me when he is going to have DD for the next 8 weeks, but he doesn't actually tell me what his shifts are so there is no discussion. It's all his choice. I wasn't sure what the court would say would have to happen

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okiedokieme · 31/05/2020 17:22

If he cannot choose his shifts then he needs to tell you when he can be available - he doesn't get a choice. I'm sure he would prefer to have set shifts but just isn't the case for many

Original poster

therearebugsinthepool · 31/05/2020 17:29

It's not so much that he works shifts (although that is incredibly annoying!), it's more that when he gets his shifts rather than let me know what they are, or what his days off are, he will simply tell me when he is going to have DD. I wasn't sure if the court would be happy with him doing that (as there is no discussion between us, he just tells me), or whether they would actually make him share his shifts so I know myself when he is off. If that makes sense!

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OnlyJudyCanJudgeMe · 31/05/2020 17:45

From what you’re describing, I don’t really see what he’s doing wrong?
He’s telling you when he can have his daughter, surely that’s his days off?
How much contact does he get?

Kaykay066 · 31/05/2020 17:49

Do they not have some sort of pattern? My ex is 4 earlies 3 back and 3 night, in a pattern I know so if someone asked me if I could do a shift at my work I’d be able to tell you if he was off so I could work or working so I couldn’t but he lets me know too in case of court dates or courses he’s scheduled for.
Not always plain sailing with shifts as we both woro them but would be easier for you to know but if you do know when he’s having her for 8 week blocks then what’s wrong with that? Or am I mistaken? Is he reliable and takes her when he says?

spongedog · 31/05/2020 18:01

I also get told what the contact schedule looks like. No shift patterns with us. No discussion - just these are the future dates. Ex might vary them to suit himself but wont accept any request from me (or his DC). Last year he made a change and gave me dates this coming June - 18 months ahead.

I know that we parent in parallel not co-parent and this is for me a good example of that in practice.

I do agree with other pps that if he only knows shifts a few weeks in advance then sadly you are stuck. However, what happens when you work/return to work/change jobs. I found that when we initially separated I wasnt working so was very accommodating to contact patterns. But after I returned to work ex refused to accept that I was allowed a say. That is the pattern/attitude you need to avoid and family court wont help with that at all.

So if I were you I would very occasionally refuse and state eg "Sat 3 weeks away I cant have DC - you will need to make other arrangements". So that your ex gets used to managing your non-availability.

Original poster

therearebugsinthepool · 31/05/2020 18:06

Unfortunately he has 8 weeks of random shifts, and after they are done he gets another 8 weeks of random ones different from the last.

The issue is that he appears to plan all of his social activities and then fits DD in afterwards, but claims he is actually working. He normally sees her about once a week.

So for example he will say I can have DD overnight that week on the Tuesday as I am on nights the rest of the time, then afterwards I will find out that he's actually been off 4 days that week and wants DD the Tuesday because he has planned social things the rest of his days off. If I say to him I'm afraid the Tuesday doesn't work for us as we have plans, he will then say you're blocking contact etc. So I quite often cancel those plans so he can have DD (which is why I'm angry when I find out he's lied).

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BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup · 01/06/2020 06:43

Unfortunately you can't force him to have your joint child at all. He doesn't need to tell you his shifts but does need to tell you when he wants your joint daughter to spend time with him in advance.

If you know his rota is done 8 weeks ahead then unfortunately you can't book anything in for your daughter that far ahead the majority of the time.

If you are booking something like swimming lessons or your daughter wants to do a particular hobby, then tell him in advance the days she does it and ask him to facilitate it on his days. If he refuses only then state she isn't available on those days.

If he isn't giving you 8 weeks notice of when he wants your joint daughter to spend time with him then that's where you can kick up a fuss. Parents where neither works shifts tend to plan contact time a year in advance based on the school year.

Original poster

therearebugsinthepool · 01/06/2020 09:21

He's currently refusing to give me 8 weeks in advance and wants to do it on a week by week basis for the moment. I don't know why - he refused to see DD for 10 weeks through lockdown as it wasn't 'safe'.

It just seems to be incredibly unfair that he can dictate when he sees DD without there being any kind of discussion, it feels like I can't plan anything with her within those 8 weeks incase he decides that's the day he wants to see her!

I already accept way below what the CSA says I'm entitled to due to him saying it was 'unfair' that he had to pay that much and insisted I drop the case or he wouldn't help me with DD!

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OnlyJudyCanJudgeMe · 01/06/2020 09:48

Not a chance! Get back onto CSA and get what your daughter deserves!
He won’t get away with week to week notice in court if he gets his shifts so far in advance and one day a week is pathetic!

BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup · 01/06/2020 19:56

Contact is for the benefit of the child. If she is over 5 then she understands what a schedule is. Regardless she should have a relationship with her father and he should also support her by paying the minimum the government asks.

From now on only communicate with your ex in writing - use email. If he refuses to tell you 8 weeks in advance when he would like to spend time with your joint daughter, and you have something booked for her like swimming lessons, a hobby or you are seeing extended family then state she is unavailable. (Make a note why she wasn't available) State to avoid that happening again he needs to tell you when he gets his rota 8 weeks in advance when he would like to spend time with your joint child.

Block him on your phone so his calls go to voicemail, then ring him back when you feel capable of dealing with him if you ever do. If he shouts at you on the phone cut him off immediately. You never have to listen to someone who upsets you on phone calls.

As a PP said lodge a claim with the CMS. (The CSA doesn't exist for new claimants.)

Also he is not helping you. His role is to continue to have a relationship with his own child and parent her by spending time with her.

If he wants to take you to mediation and then Court let him, as at least he will be forced to set a schedule in advance where he gives you sufficient notice.

Original poster

therearebugsinthepool · 01/06/2020 20:17

Thanks for your replies. I've had him blocked on my phone for the past few months as every phone call would end up with him shouting at me (because I didn't agree with him or see his point of view etc).

He has just asked to have her this weekend, I've actually already booked something to do with her (outside!) so have said she is unavailable on the Saturday. I've offered Sunday instead but nope it has to be the whole weekend or not at all. I've now had texts off his girlfriends phone (from him) saying that it's unacceptable that DD is not available the whole weekend, he has a right to see her when he wants to, and if I don't let him then he will be taking me to mediation / court.

I'm just so fed up with it all.

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Original poster

therearebugsinthepool · 01/06/2020 20:18

DD is 6, so still fairly small!

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RandomMess · 01/06/2020 20:24

Just let it go to court and claim via CMS and accept he will never help with DD.

I would keep 2 evenings per week that are fairly free that are his potential nights. At the start of his 8 week block you tell him what weekends she is free and he can have first pick but he only has 3 days to inform you else you will not guarantee to keep them free...

OnlyJudyCanJudgeMe · 01/06/2020 20:25

Then tell him you'll see him in mediation, then speak to a lawyer. It needs to be written down.
Don't let him bully you.

Schmoana · 01/06/2020 20:29

As someone who is at the end of this(mine don’t need looking after now) - my ex had a shift pattern but still booked nights out/bike rides/gym etc then decided when he wanted the kids; there is the option to drop the anger, accept
that you are the default carer for your daughter at all times, and if you have already booked something on a night when he wants her, say no.

I used to be very resentful about this. But there is power in it too. You can do battle, but at the end of the day he doesn’t have to have her at all.

Original poster

therearebugsinthepool · 01/06/2020 20:33

Sometimes I think it would be easier if he didn't want her at all rather than yes I do want her, but completely on my terms or I'll cause you no end of problems!

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RandomMess · 01/06/2020 20:39

I think by standing up to him and refusing to be bullied he'll flounce off. The fact he has threatened not to see her if you go to CMS means you should do it...

If he is a narcissist you want him far far far away from your DD to protect her!

SoloMummy · 01/06/2020 20:49

@therearebugsinthepool

Thanks for your replies. I've had him blocked on my phone for the past few months as every phone call would end up with him shouting at me (because I didn't agree with him or see his point of view etc).

He has just asked to have her this weekend, I've actually already booked something to do with her (outside!) so have said she is unavailable on the Saturday. I've offered Sunday instead but nope it has to be the whole weekend or not at all. I've now had texts off his girlfriends phone (from him) saying that it's unacceptable that DD is not available the whole weekend, he has a right to see her when he wants to, and if I don't let him then he will be taking me to mediation / court.

I'm just so fed up with it all.

Then I would simply reply, please let me know the mediation agency he is wishing to use.

Then add, that unless you have the dates of his availability for the next 8 weeks, then he will have to accept that he cannot have ad hoc with no advance planning as you have an entitlement to plan quality time with your child as well. Once you receive his availability, you can discuss contact dates for the next 8 weeks. I'd also add that consistency and planning is important for your child so that they too know when they will next have contact.
I'd also tag on that as maintenance is not even being paid at the minimum cms rate, that you will be opening a claim.

You need to be upfront and not be afraid to challenge his conduct.

Original poster

therearebugsinthepool · 01/06/2020 20:59

After months of harassing me to drop the CSA case (which I eventually did), he has announced that he will be getting in contact with them to open a new case as he is now living with 2 other children so will therefore have to pay less

I'm wondering whether to get in touch with a mediator to take that threat out of his hands, I'm just worried what the court would say about planning contact with him.

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Porridgeoat · 01/06/2020 21:03

Tell him which days he can have DD. And don’t budge.

RandomMess · 01/06/2020 21:04

Thing is you shouldn't do mediation with someone that is abusive. He wouldn't have to stick to anything agreed to in mediation so perhaps just let him take it to court?

Porridgeoat · 01/06/2020 21:05

As long as you can evidence that you’ve offered regular days don’t worry about him declining them