Different retirement ages following divorce?

[coronabeer]

Going through the divorce process.

Aged 50. 25 year marriage, 2 children aged 14 and 16. I have been a sahm since the oldest one was born and dh has always discouraged me from finding a job (well, he's changed his tune now!). I had quite a well-paid job when dd1 was born (£40k per year).
Dh is slightly older (52) and plans to retire at 55. He has a big pension pot - almost £1million. He is telling me that I need to get a job - any job - and work until state retirement age.

I have googled, but can't find any similar cases. Bearing in mind that I am unlikely to earn much more than minimum wage, would it be accepted that dh retire in 3 years with a pension of £30k plus, whilst I work for the next 17 years and earn maybe £20k per year? And I would be responsible for the children because there's no way they would live with him.
I know some people might think I'm being lazy, but it's not about that. Dh's salary has always been somewhat reduced because he's been squirrelling so much away into his pension. As I result, I have always had to live pretty frugally, whilst dh has spent whatever he wants and blamed me for over-spending. For example, I own a single coat (from Millets!) whilst dh has a wardrobe full of designer gear. But he still says I spend too much on myself. Tbh, I don't mind the idea of having a job in itself, I just wondered if a court would be likely to deem it fair that I retire so much later than dh, and live on so much less than him in the meantime?

He is trying to pressure you. Unfairly. That's why you have solicitors. Use them.

Please seek legal advice ASAP, do not make any agreements with H or think about getting a job until you have taken advice-don’t be scared by his bullshit and bluster, he’s trying to intimidate you. Make sure he makes full disclosure of all assets, whatever he tells you, pensions are marital assets. Don’t believe a word he says.

I have 0 advice but just wanted to wish good luck!

For a relationship of such long standing the split STARTS at 50% and of course if you have a child arrangements order that says you have residency and majority care then it only goes up and if you have mid teen kids you obviously need to provide a home.

My advice is get paper evidence/copies of everything make sure you know bank account details and be quick getting in with your claims - hit hard and fast so he doesn't have time to pack it away and hide it and before he gets savvy to playing the system

Oh and get onto child maintenance services too

Definitely make sure you see a decent matrimonial specialist lawyer. You will get more than half of all the assets (which include his pension) as you are housing the children. Crack on and do it soon while they are dependants. Claim for child and spousal maintenance (but ideally get a capitalised lump sum rather than stage payments so he can't dick about).

The point is that you enabled him to have a family and career to your detriment which is why you are up shit creek now. Do not get a job.

Thanks all, you're making me feel a bit better.

Dh has basically bullied me for years, more subtly than now, but bullying nonetheless.
It feels good to stand up to him, but it's very difficult. He has gone nuts about me seeing a solicitor, but tough.

Very interesting to hear about someone in a very similar position. I've seen others on this website with similar problems (not least concerning the kids). It's both sad and comforting to know I'm not alone.

Obvs you need a solicitor, but the Pensions Advisory Service offer a divorce and pensions review which is very handy! Its free you book an appointment and it takes around 45 minutes on the phone.

You need a solicitor, but no need to tell him until he gets that first letter. As regards him letting himself in, leave the key in the door or the latch down so he can’t get in without knocking.

If he wants you to agree to anything tell him you can’t and keep saying that.

The hardest thing IME is learning not to talk to your STBX. Rest assured that anything you do tell him will be twisted and used against you. He does not need to know that you are seeing your solicitor, he does not need to know what you would settle for to keep the peace and be reasonable (an utter waste of time anyway).

I know it is difficult to break a habit of years, but seriously, learn to STFU, as MN lore correctly has it - this man is not your friend.

You may be interested in this:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8055775/Female-lawyer-sacrificed-career-look-children-awarded-400-000-compensation.html

Good luck OP.
I'm not splitting with DH but I've always been super clear that the pension is our pension not his, 50/50, because I've carried the dc load and kept leaving jobs to move round the world.
If we split an even 50/50 plus any appropriate child support would be my starting point and DH knows this.
Don't let him bully you, get good legal advice.

Of course he’s ‘gone nuts’ about you seeing a solicitor. He thought he could bully you into an unfair settlement and lie to you about your potential entitlements.
Stay strong, get legal advice and don’t communicate with him directly about it unless it is at mediation.
After years of being deprived of family resources this is your chance to have a good life.

First thing tomorrow you change the locks. And tell him he can save his 'little chats' for his solicitor.
Of course, he 'needs' a bigger house and income so he can attract the younger woman he thinks is his due, especially as he was at the back of the queue when good looks were dished out. You might well end up having the last laugh when he discovers he's not as big a catch as he thought he was. You, however, could be stepping out into the best years of your life.
PS Go and buy yourself a nice new coat as soon as the locksmith's been!

Off course hes gone nuts over you speaking with a solicitor, you now know were you legally stand when it comes to division of assets. I think the only answer you have for him if and obviously when he brings up the divorce is to say that you no longer wish to discuss the finer details of the divorce directly with him but if he has a question he can get his solicitor to speak to yours, and then change the subject. Dont get drawn in however difficult it is, mouth shut unless you repeat the answer above, Oh and have a stock phrase for the dc incase he involves them too, such as its in the hands of the solicitors and ive been advised against discussing financial matters with your father!

I’m just another ‘random on the internet’ - but my high earning (£100k p/a basic + bonuses) DH left me at the age of 50 for his PA a few years ago and thought we would split the house 50/50, he would keep 600k pension pot and that would be that. Kids were 21 and 18, youngest had just gone to Uni. I was working in a 25k a year job. I got 90% house and a pension sharing order which gave us equality of income in retirement in return for a clean break. I would be very surprised if you didn’t get similar - and you’d probably get some spousal maintenance, even if for only a few years. It does exist in cases like this, no matter what is often spouted here.

Get that solicitor and get what you are entitled to after such a long marriage! And good luck - I am very happy now living in a small but lovely cottage, kids have grown and left home, I maintain myself easily on my salary and know I have a good pension income to look forward to in a few years.

oldfatandtired (seems beyond rude to address you in such terms!l

How did you arrive at your settlement? Was it through mediation, or did you go to court? Or something else?

We're trying mediation at the moment, but getting nowhere due to what I see as his unrealistic and excessive demands. The mediation is good in the sense that it gives me a bit of confidence to say things, but we don't seem any further forward after 4 meetings.

corona my ex told me when he left I looked old, fat and tired - I was 9 1/2 stone, we were both 50 and I guess I looked tired after all the stress! Should really change the name as it’s not who I am at all now but I joined MN for advice when he left and it seemed appropriate then!

He wouldn’t consider mediation and dragged me through court. We settled just after the FDR (where the judge gives his opinion on what would be ordered if the case went to final hearing). Judge told my ex the pension share was a given due to ages and length of marriage and house could go 70/30 but then I would require spousal maintenance until state pension age. I wanted a clean break (if he lost his job he wouldn’t be able to pay SM) - I think ex needed to be told he was not above the law.

It sounds like you have enough in the pot to house you both and give you incomes - but I think your H might have to reconsider his wish to retire at 55! Because if he can do that you should be able to, too!

I think given his situation and your, he will,be very fortunate to keep 50% overall. You are likely to get a higher % given what you gave up to look at children.

I rarely advise seeing a lawyer as people on here are very quick to kick off seeing lawyers at £300+VAT an hour when they dint have large assets. You are in a different position and you need really good legal advice.

I suspect either one of two scenarios. Either he postpones retirement or he suddenly wants to give your marriage another try😉

Thanks everyone. I really do feel a bit better about everything now. I even took myself out for a run this afternoon and I'm feeling much more positive.

It's hard to change a long term pattern of being bullied and told what to do - but then, that's why I'm divorcing him. It's scary watching the legal bills mount up, too, especially considering I haven't had much advice in any case and what I have had has been a bit vague at times. I like my solicitor, but I think I need one who'll take a tougher stance (and get to the point more in appointments, with a bit less waffle).

So, next step is to find a SHL and really get on with things.

Solicitors sometime love waffle at their daily rate. Good ones don't.

You need to be organised and don't keep phoning or emailing. Wait j til you have a number of issues as they change for each phone call and email

See a solicitor . Only they will have the experience for what you can both reasonably have and if it’s not enough then both of you will be working for probably longer than you had planned for . His dream of retiring at 55 is likely gone . Now one pot has to support two households .

Financially if it goes to court a judge will first look at if both parties can be reasonably housed and a clean break achieved. In this case it can be achieved easily.

The judge will then look at asset split - if you have been in a medium or long term marriage and you have looked after children, you earning potential has reduced and because of that it is likely the asset split will be in your favour, do note however that where there are plentiful assets it could be closer to 50:50 than 70:30 in your favour. 50:50 split across everything is the least possible you would get and the best outcome he could hope to achieve. I would suspect a judge would award you a higher proportion in lieu of spousal maintenance.

Regarding him retiring at 55 it's his choice, but he'll have to evaluate his options after the judgement and is likely a tactic to reduce his own forward earning power.

You need to see a solicitor and I suggest state you want 70/30 in your favour. This is a starting point, it may go down to 60/40. Just because your DH had planned to retire in a few years is now irrelevant. He will be in for a big shock because you are going to get over half the family assets including pension.
You have put your career on hold and limited your earnings where as his earnings have grown, this will be taken into account.
Your DH will probably have to work a lot longer than he expect because you are going to be entitled to a lot of the pension pot.

He has moved out, but still has a key so lets himself in whenever he feels like it

I'm so sorry about how terribly he has been behaving. Discouraging you from having your own career, having you as full time bang and housekeeper then treating himself to designer togs while you well don't is really not fair in any case.

He may want to pressurise you into agreeing. Do not agree to anything with advice from your lawyer.

Meanwhile, put the lock on or leave your key in the lock so he can only come in if invited.

Make sure your lawyer is a real "shit hot" kJ d that understands your position. That isn't taking him to the cleaners, it's just making things fair. Starting now. All the very best.

Of course he doesn’t want you talking to a solicitor! Ignore that.

Based on what you’ve said, and all the reading on divorce I’ve ever done, I see no reason why you wouldn’t get 50% of the house and the pension. Let’s forget any other assets and child maintenance, or if spousal maintenance might be possible.

He must be shitting his pants!

Whatever your settlement, the date you choose to retire is YOUR DAMN BUSINESS. You look at the money YOU have, and choose what YOU can live on. The more frugal you are, the sooner you can retire - you don’t need as much.

So - a full paid off house in the SE that sounds like you can buy outright with your half? Nice.

The £1m pension. Even if it’s not more than 50%, that £500K get transferred to a different pension account in your name with a PSO. Nothing to do with him anymore.

You can access it at 55. Are you familiar with drawdown? Some people say the safe rate is 4%. That means, you can take 4% of the money every year and the growth in the funds will replace it. Not every year - it averages out. Others say that’s a bit high, but let’s take 3%. That’s £15K a year. (taxable) Alongside no mortgage, that’s not that bad. Not even allowing for the 25% tax free amount from a pension - I don’t want to go to into detail.

Fuck him. Go and see a solicitor. You’ve tried mediation. Check with your solicitor but you’ve probably done enough to satisfy the requirement that you try. No more little chats. Black & white, from your solicitor - tell what you want. And make sure it’s not a penny less than the highest amount your solicitor thinks is realistic.

And enjoy your retirement. It will be richer than his in many ways.