What age can a child choose not to see her father?

[chocolatesaltyballs22]

DD is 16, have been divorced from her dad for over 8 years. I left him because he was controlling and manipulative. I've always thought he was a relatively good dad despite his faults but this week I called her when she was there and they were having a screaming row. Last night she broke down in tears and basically said that he treats her like crap. Exactly the way he used to treat me. Constantly tells her she's disrespectful and ungrateful for all he does for her (which is basically fuck all as she lives off ready meals when she's there and does all of her own washing and most of his). She said she can't wait for the day she doesn't have to see him again. I can't stand to think of her being unhappy when she's there. I've tried calling him out on his behaviour in the past but he doesn't listen. He's one of those who is never wrong about anything. I really don't know what to do - if I had my way he'd never see her again. She's there 3 nights a week just now. I don't know whether at the age of 16 she can decide for herself with no involvement from the courts?

No specific advice other than to say I'd trust your daughter to make this decision. I cut contact with my dad at 16/17 and it was the best decision I ever made. I'd hated having to stay with him from age 11 but hadn't felt like it was an option until I was older. If she wants to stop seeing him, I'm sure she's old enough to decide.

I am not a lawyer but I have some knowledge of the family courts. You may have to end up with a judge deciding, but a 16 year old will be very unlikely to be forced to see her father. There’s no cut off, but children’s own views and experience are increasingly taken into account as they get older (some ppl would say not enough....) and 16 is normally deemed old enough to have the final say.

Do you have a court order?

No court order, informal arrangement for access which was agreed as part of divorce when she was 7.

You can't really force a 16 year old. If she physically wouldn't go then you couldn't make her without assaulting her.
Courts should take a child's wishes into consideration from age 12. I can't remember the name it was given but it was a rule brought in and named after an abortion case involving a 12 year old I believe.

At 16 the courts will take her seriously, I'd stop forcing it. If you force it there's a (good) chance she'll reach tipping point when she's there and leave in the middle of the night and be unsafe.

Sorry to drip feed but the added complication is that he pays her school fees and she's worried that he's got that over on her and he'll stop paying. She has two years left (starting 6th form). I can't afford to pay the fees so it would mean her changing schools.

As long as he doesn't get that horrific excuse for a terrorist group F4J involved, (and even if he did), no one can force a 16 year old to see their father if they don't want to. I have memories of shaking and sobbing and feeling physically sick at being forced to stay with my father, but I was forced to anyway. If she doesn't want to, please don't make her.

She can stop seeing him right now. My son had made that decision at 16 and the court couldn't make him, you can leave home at 16.
if he takes either of you to court he will not win. Let her make that decision today, it worries me that if she continues seeing him her self esteem will become too low to say no.
next door neighbours kids absolutely hated him and all three of them decided at 13,14 and 16 not to see him any more.

I'm sure a court could force him to continue the school fees as he can afford it and it would have a negative affect on her education.

Is it part of the divorce he pays the school fees?

There's no court order in place and if he tried to get one, he wouldn't get anywhere.
The school fees are a complication. Can you speak to the school and see if there are any bursaries she could access if he stops paying? School do this sometimes when they want to keep children and their circumstances change.

It sounds like your daughter needs to decide if private school is worth putting up with his abuse. He does sound like the type to use the fees as a means of control.

Yes, all good advice. Thanks. She loves the school and keeps saying 'it's just another 2 years' but I'm concerned about the impact it will have on her as well. He has a nice partner (god knows how, doesn't live with her and I've never met her). Have thought of trying to speak to her to see if she will help to talk some sense into him. He thinks they have a great relationship, he's seriously oblivious as to what she thinks of him.

She really doesn't have to go. Does she have the courage to tell him herself that he makes her feel like crap? If not stand up for her. If he threatens to stop paying school fees then he's an absolute bollocks but a change of school might even be worth it if he's being such a horrible dad.

I think she's tried to speak to him - she's confident and a bit fiesty like me - but he doesn't listen. Still treats her like a child.

I think they're allowed to have a say in it age 12. Going through something similar as my poor DD is stuck abroad with her father and she's just experienced another one of his epic tantrums. She doesn't want to travel to see him again and I'm not going to make her.
Not relevant, I know but he pays minimal maintenance anyway despite his high level job and she's at a bog standard comp.
Could you talk to the school about assistance for the next couple of years as a back up just in case? I know a lot of private schools offer this - my friend's son was given a free education for sixth form when his father became an arse and refused to contribute.

My daughter decided age 16 that she didn’t want anymore contact with her father and so doesn’t. He went to a solicitor to see if he could force her to through the courts and was basically told that it was unlikely that a court would make her.
Definitely speak to the school about fees.

• Gillick Competant was the term I was looking for in my previous post.

Can she cut the amount of time she goes there now she's in sixth
form due to 'extra curricular activities' or 'study sessions'?

That's an option, I'd also like her to get a PT job so that could be another excuse.

Your dd is well past the age of being Gillick competent/ Frazier guidelines.
Courts wouldn't force her to go against her will.
Maybe try and subtly drop contact down using clubs and pp job as excuses to begin with.
Talking to school is also a good idea.

I separated with them in their teens. Both kids were asked independently who they want to live with and how. Still not sure on the loyalties of the older one now 18 cos he only wants to know me when his dad is away...

Do talk to her though about benefits of a fresh start at a local sixth form college Vs having to keep him sweet for 2 more years and how that's her choice. Often a school sixth form is very different to sixth form only site... And it might be a bit harder but equally she would make lots of new friends and be more independent

@Otter71 we did have that conversation as she is moving schools (from one private school to another) and we looked at state schools. Her dad wouldn't agree to her going to a state school. He's just paid the first term's fees - I would hope that once she's settled in and happy he won't do anything to compromise that as he does care about her education (even if he has to have absolute control over it).