Custody for SAHM (Dad asking)

[justbeingadad]

Wife and I are getting divorced - she ended it a few months ago, but at the moment it still makes financial sense to live together - we lead very separate lives though. Not sure it's significant, but she is already seeing someone else.

As she is currently a stay at home mum with a small side income of a couple of hundred £/month, she has indicated that she expects to get custody of the children following divorce and I see them only 1 or 2 days a week. She won't be staying in the family home, we'll most likely sell it as there isn't enough money to run this + another house without some serious compromises which otherwise wouldn't be required.

My job has historically meant I had to work away a lot - 4/5 days a week, sometimes 3 weeks a month, however this shouldn't be the case in the future and I would change jobs and take a significant pay cut if it comes down to it so that I have an equal relationship with my children.

Am I being naive to believe that we should be going for 50/50 custody?

I'm very concerned that over time my children will see me as someone they "visit".

Anyone have any experience of this - does a SAHM have an elevated claim to custody based on the fact they've stayed at home with the children more? Kids will probably be 4 & 7 by the time this is all sorted.

@GummyGoddess

That would definitely not be the desired set up. I'd have no intentions of them bringing stuff between houses. School uniforms, toys, books, etc etc etc etc would all have to be duplicated. I totally agree I can't imagine anything worse. I spend so much of my life living out of a suitcase I'd not inflict it upon anyone.

@titchy

I maybe didn't think that explanation though! I meant low to mid 1xx,xxx, ie somewhere between 110 and 140.

My salary really doesn't go very far where we live. a 3 bedroom house is 250k minimum. It's unachievable for us to both live in separate houses in this area if she does not find a decent income.

She made it clear she did not want to return to work (and I fully supported that decision)
But not perhaps all the consequences of that decision. I appreciate that it seemed like the right thing to do at the time, but just as a SAHM in a divorce finds there was a heavy penalty in not having paid employment, so the WOHP finds there is a heavy penalty in terms of day-to-day contact with the children.

I think in this case, I would tell your ex that you will pay child support assuming you will have them every other weekend but you would like her to agree to more contact on a trial basis without it being taken into account for child support. But this will need to be a regular schedule, it can't be 'as and when' your travelling schedule allows for it.

If your salary is £120k a year, and 3 bed houses are £250k, you can afford to support two homes. That might be a flat, say £200k, but you live in a cheap area so you have options.

Although nesting as a pp suggested might work. Kids stay in current house, you rent a 1 bed flat and you and ex go back and forth between house and flat.

Seems like she doesn’t want anything to change for her. Ie she keeps the house and children and works as she wishes with you working long hours to fund it.

Unfortunately things change when marriages break down. And that includes parenting and childcare as well as finances. Be straight and say you want and expect 50:50 or near to and then you come up with a plan as to how that can work. Children can do well in 2 loving homes regardless of what you will be told here. It is important that as they grow up you can maintain sports clubs etc so they don’t miss out in either home.

I completely get where your coming from re travel etc. That’s fine when it’s for the benefit of the family - but that has changed. Don’t sit back and be relegated to a very part time dad

@titchy but given the OP’s wife doesn’t earn she won’t be in a position to buy a house herself. Also this would mean the OP having to take out two mortgages in order to facilitate his ex being able to be a home owner in her own right. Given he said that they have only recently moved it’s unlikely there is much equity in their current property to form a decent deposit on two new houses.

And how have we arrived at a point where the wife has chosen to end the marriage is already seeing someone else, and yet the OP is being given a hard time for needing to sell the family home in order to enable him to move on as well?

Yes, the OP and his wife agreed that she would be a SAHM. It happens, and the reality is that few couples think that they might get divorced at this point. But she has chosen to end the relationship, and while her SAHM status means she will find it more difficult to get back into work, it doesn’t allow her to remain a SAHM, cultivate a new relationship and mean the OP should pay for it. She can’t have her cake and eat it.

@PicsInRed

No, no school fees, although there would be usual childcare costs associated with two working parents.

We've just had the first row in a long long time. I questioned her motives and thoughts on already being in a relationship with someone else while still living in the family home and having started that relationship before we had even told the children. Not to mention the fact I am effectively financially funding this relationship. (hopefully he's old school and insists on paying!!!).

She seems to think that I'm unreasonable for thinking there's anything wrong in this situation. Is it acceptable to start a new relationship this soon / while being financially supported by your husband / still living in thr family home?

Well it’s very likely she’s been having an affair and it started prior to ending your relationship. If you read these boards the general view if this were a man would be make him leave, he should lose the house and children blah blah. You won’t get that in this circumstance- no doubt it will all be your fault that she’s done this because the wife is never to blame.

You need to be smart here. Keep it amicable fir the kids but I wouldn’t roll over backwards to give her what she wants! These are your children too - and you’re their dad so make it clear you won’t be accepting eow.

It's not up for you to decide when she starts a new relationship unfortunately. Legally I'd imagine you could send your pay to a different account and just pay the bills directly and she'd have to pay for her dates etc out of her own income but I'd caution that it's probably not worth the fallout from that.

Have you not been to see a solicitor to get the ball rolling and get some ideas on what amount of custody you'd actually likely get and what you'd owe for CM and potentially spousal support?

@millymollymoomoo

Sadly, I know for a fact this relationship didn't start before we split, one of the main reasons we split and what led to it all coming to a head was me questioning her about messages on her phone (but they are definitely from a different guy!) pattern here....

Of course it's all my fault, I've already accepted that is how society treats a divorcing couple, it seems futile to try and argue against that.

@Rtmhwales

The reason I asked is because I told her I thought it was morally wrong and that all my friends, male and female thought so too. Her retort was that all her friends thought it was perfectly fine. I appreciate the majority of friends simply tell you what they think you want to hear so it's usually pointless asking for their advice. Hence my question here.

Oh, and yes I've been to a solicitor and they are utterly useless. "agree between yourselves, avoid court" is the consistent answer I get.

The solicitors are giving you good advice, I'm afraid. You aren't in a good position to reset to 50/50. Have they explained this to you? And the likely outcome were it to proceed to court?

Avoid court - yes. It is very expensive and there will be no amicable co-parenting thereafter. The vast majority of cases which go to court involve some form of abuse.

As others have said, you both have PRR - parental rights and responsibilities. This means that you are an equal parent, even if you only saw your DC one day a year, in the eyes of the law. Not suggesting that you do see your DC one day a year, just making the point you would still need to be consulted in education, health and welfare issues etc.

So residence and contact are separate from PRR.

The focus of PRR is on ensuring the best interests of the children. What are they likely to want? what will they manage? are they old enough to express their wishes? You can talk until you are blue in the face about how many night here or there but actually, when it comes to it, what will matter is how your DC cope and what they want.

I do not think that rowing over her relationship and calling her immoral will really help matters. You would be well advised to find a good mediator and begin to thrash out the details with your wife so that financials are sorted (and separated).

In terms of changing your job, it sounds like the end of your marriage is already one big life change and I personally would not throw in another one. You know how your job works and what time you have around it. You also have a secure salary. That is one less thing to worry about.

Your children are used to a scenario where mum is the main carer. If you can organise regular and consistent contact around your work, then it is likely that will evolve naturally as your wife’s own work (and social life) develop. Try and remain amicable and focus on what is best for the children.

Okay maybe not ‘thrash out’ the details - talk constructively about the details...

The court expects women to work following divorce, if the kids are over 5 and under 12 this should be at least school hours, if over 12 full time. She won't get extra custody because she's at home these days. The court takes 50/50 as the starting point, she would need to persuade them why it's not possible.

I haven't read any of the answers or your subsequent posts, but in answer to the original post I have 50:50 custody of child which was opposed by my ex wife (and was granted in a final child hearing), where she was a stay at home mum and I work. She originally suggested that time with the child should be split 13 nights with her and 1 night with me per fortnight.

So yes, it is possible to get this if it can be shown to be in a child's (or children's) best interest.

However, please note that I work from home frequently and whenever necessary when required, and there was no logical reason why she was suggesting the alternative. I was always available to the child and was very hands on. I work a 35 hour week and have 35 days holiday a year.

By the way, even after the final order for 50:50 shared care she continues to this day to describe herself as a full-time stay at home mum and seems to think she has some kind of divine right to be the primary caregiver .

What is it you want from us here OP? I said to you go for 50/50 as much as you can, put her needs out of your mind (I did not say make her miserable, I said she's moved on so think about you and the kids only) and you disagreed with that.

So what do you want people to say? I asked if you worked away say 4/5 nights and were back for 3/4 nights and you ignored it.

It doesn't seem to matter what we say and it's hard to tell what you're even looking for. If you want 50/50, seek 50/50 and be prepared to change jobs and make arrangements for doing so. If you want to keep your job and have the kids a night or two a week, do that.

In any event, you are a parent to the kids and you'll have a say in any major decisions and can also put a stop to things like her moving the kids 100 miles away if it would impact your contact with them just as she would be able to do the same with you.

This is what I've said, stop thinking about what she might do, what might this and what might that and think about mostly what is best for the kids and do that

@AMAM8916

I have some flexibility in work but not a lot. I'm not self employed.

You're absolutely right though, I need to start somewhere and 50/50 is that place. Thanks for the comments.

The solicitors have given you good advice. Everyone prefers that their kids get to enjoy their money rather than solicitors. Costs can escalate fast when solicitors become involved (5 figure sums!) so if you can agree between you it will be better.

I saw your post about the wage difference between your role without the travelling. That's a decision that only you can make but is there a sideways move that you can do so you're not on a fraction of your current wage? My ex did a job that involved 3/4 days overseas and the other days at home (HQ was overseas ) but that was when we were together so it wasn't so complicated for him.

Once you decide what to do about your job, you'll be able to think about how much contact you can do.

You need to let go of the new man stuff. I get that it's awful (my spouse left me for his mistress) but it's been done and won't help you heal and move on. Focus on the practical stuff like selling the house and agreeing the financial settlement so you can think about where you're going to live.

I need to start somewhere and 50/50 is that place

Thus proving the unofficial maxim that one of the the best ways to get a man to step up as a parent is to divorce him...

I think that's very unfair KTara. The OP works the job he has as his wife wanted to be a stay at home mum and said this was happening so the onnus to provide was totally on him. Ok maybe he didn't need to be earning a 6 figure salary, maybe a high 5 figure salary would have sufficed but you don't get to go out and choose what job pays what. Also, I think you've ignored the fact that the OP has already said that when he's not working away, he has all the time with his kids.

You're also ignoring the fact that the OPs ex wife doesn't want him to take a lower paying job or have 50/50 so if that's the case, she didn't end it to make him a better dad. She clearly ended it because she wanted to pursue other men (she was messaging another man before they split and is now in another relationship only 3 months after the split but not with the same man she was messaging).

I think you're right OP. 50/50 is the starting point and working together to figure out what will work the best. Regardless of whether you have an 80/20 split in her favour, your role and your parental rights won't have any less bearing. She may get to decide the day to day stuff but you will always have a say in the big things.

I would also stop providing any luxury money asap. I work. I'm married and work part time. She needs to get into the real world. She's ended her marriage to her husband that has the 6 figure salary so she doesn't get to live the 6 figure salary life anymore. She needs to get a JOB or see if her new flame is willing to provide. Start saving for if and when you need to take a pay cut to get a job to have regular contact. Or start saving in the event you need a solicitor. She chose the stay at home mum life but in doing so, you were able to earn what you earn so although she needs to find her own way post divorce, she should still get half the house, half the savings and a roof kept over her head until your marriage is officially over (divorce). In the mean time, she needs to provide the 'extras' herself

If you want your kids to get the money rather than your solicitors then heres a tip:

You are not the first man to have tried this stunt with the courts and they will see through it straight away. Just like most people reading this thread.

I understand that you are angry at your wife for ending the marriage. And that perhaps you regret the choices you have made. Maybe you would have tried harder at your marriage and spent more time with your kids if you had known how much divorce would costs you. But it’s too late now - you reap what you sow.

The legal system can’t fix your issues. Instead , spend you money on counselling / therapy rather than a legal battle and do what’s best for your kids. If you act like an arsehole they will end up hating you and anything you do gain will be a Pyrrhic victory.