Question from a Dad - Finances / CM

[MrBrightside1980]

Hi All.
First time poster, sorry for the length. Im a dad who's looking for some input.
Background is, Separated approx 11 months ago, 3 DC's (14,12 & 7). Break up was my fault, racked with guilt but not been making things any better.
Moved approx 40 mins away from where my ex (married, pending divorce) and children live as this was considered best. However, my circumstances have changed and im now without a car so access to my children has become increasingly difficult.
The relationship between me and my ex is almost non-existent (again, my doing), communication is only by email.
I've now hit a brick wall financially speaking.
I pay my ex over double what the CM calculator has suggested but its leaving me absolutely broke each month. I have no money for shopping, to do anything with my children, pay my bills and generally struggle to get to work. Ive gotten in to debt trying to keep up with everything. I will be in a position where i could potentially lose my job through not having the money to get there, which will mean i have nothing to give to my ex and children.
The amount i pay was offered by me as i didnt want my children or ex to be under any kind of hardship due to me being the cause of the break up. I cant keep up with it anymore. I have tried to put this to my ex but not gotten the best response, which i suppose is understandable.
I rent privately and i am looking to move back closer to the area they live so that i can see them more often and have easier access to them and help out as much as possible.
My situation is a difficult one. I need to sort my finances out. I have two options, either i rent somewhere that will allow my children to stay with me, which will mean reducing the amount i pay my ex, or i rent a room in a house to lower my outgoings. This will allow me to pay my ex either what i'm currently paying (or close enough to it) but will mean my children will never be able to stay.
Ultimately i need to look at reducing the amount i pay my ex. How do i do this? I don't want her or my children to suffer but i cant live like this. She works, initially part time, and has increased her hours. She would almost certainly be entitled to tax credits but refuses to do so.
Any suggestions on what i should do or how to approach this?

I would suggest that you go through cms, it makes everything that much easier. If you can eventually give more then do so. CMS is the mimimum. Make sure your wife understands that you need to reduce the amount you pay currently pay or you will lose your income which will make your children worse off. Why would she not apply for tax credit? She is entitled to it and a sensible person would see this would benefit her and the children.

You need a place where they can stay. Ideally it would be nearer but 40 minutes isn’t loads.

You need to be able to afford a car, a roof over your head, your bills, stuff for your DC when they’re with you. Who’s paying her mortgage? You can’t make her claim benefits but she should if she’s eligible.

When people split up the same amount of money that funded one household has to stretch to two, so everyone has to make compromises. Why don’t you have a car? Are you still seeing your children at the moment? She might not like it but you have to reduce your payments. How much is the CMS amount?

I suggest you explain all that calmly in an email to your ex. Tell her you’ll provide the CMs-calculated amount and the difference will allow you to rent a suitable home near to her so you can help her with caring responsibilities, and to continue being a proper dad to your dcs.
If you’ve been banned from driving, get to know the bus routes. Choose somewhere it is easy for your dcs to travel to under their own steam given that the eldest is already 14.
Well done for accepting the blame.

I lost my licence, have a ban, which is completely my fault. Was in a bad place and didnt act in the best way, but no excuse.
I have contact with children by phone/facetime at the moment. The access to the children is something that i am willing to work on, im sure it will improve given time, as hard as it is at the moment, i feel it will get much better/easier if i move closer as i can see them more often.
She currently rents too, no mortgage.
The CMS calculator says £780. Im currently paying slightly over double that.
I think its pride over the TC's and the fact that because it was me that caused the break up, why should she have to claim a benefit.
I am constantly racked with guilt over the breakup and how things have been since, and feel like taking the extra i pay away from her will make things even worse ,but i cant keep up with it anymore

While you aren’t driving you’re not polluting the environment. Sell it to your dcs that way. And your older two will learn to travel on buses and learn a bit of independence. It isn’t all bad.
While your ex may be furious with you now, she will eventually appreciate you living nearby because it will make it easier for her to rebuild her life, and be better the for the dcs.
I hope it gets sorted.

This will sound harsh but stop with the guilt it’s not conducive to anything. You both need to be able to move forward. If not already, start divorce proceedings and financial settlement which will stop people being in s state of limbo. It’s ridiculous paying double if that leaves you penniless. You should have somewhere the children are able to stay too

Your ex will need to claim working tax credit if eligible or up hours to full time.

Unfortunately the reality of relationship breakdown means all parties will have to make adjustments. What’s the longer term plan ?

No definitely not harsh, its what friends are telling me too. Its just difficult to grasp, i caused the break up and now need to reduce the amount i pay. I do need to accept and deal with that though, otherwise everything falls apart which is no good for anyone. I have broached the subject of divorce proceedings but i get the response that she will when she is ready. I attempted Mediation a few months after separating, even paid for both of us but she didnt want to proceed with it, so i paid the fee for the certificate that we had attended. I understand her bitterness and upset towards me but i cant make things better for the children, and support her with their well-being if i cant live.
Long term plan would be to at least get to a point where we can be amicable. I miss my children so want to spend as much time as i can with them, support my ex as much as possible both financially and through the upbringing of the children. With me living closer i can can help out more with child care etc which will give her more freedom for work and if thats what she wants, to get out and have some time for herself. As she is the resident parent, and with my current situation, i appreciate that things are difficult for her, and she has the sole responsibility of looking after the children, getting them to and from places etc. She does have the support of her family but i want to be involved too.

My ex pays nothing and got loads of money from me on our divorce (I earn more and we both wor full time ) and he has always chosen just about never to see the children eg no nights a year! At leat you are interested in seeing them.

one possibility is you move back in - you have a legal right to do so whilst you are still married. You might even be able to arrange the house so there is a separate entrance for you or something like that. Giving up sex with the other woman until you are fully divorced might be a price worth paying. I don't thikn your wfe has a legal right to bar your entry to the house as there is no non molestation order agains tyou. Then you can negotiate the final divorce capital payments that way. My ex was advised not to move out until the final sealed our consent order on finances, decree absolute and my taking on a big mortgage to pay him out.

Thanks Xenia. The CMS amount of £780 is making the assumption that they spend no overnights with me at all during the year. Until recently that hasnt been the case at all, with my DD staying almost every weekend and my 2 DS's staying regularly. Im not interested in reducing the CMS based on how often they stay with me as i could get by on the calculated amount (possibly a tad more). I just need to lower what im currently paying as its just not sustainable.
Moving back in is not an option, and to be honest i wouldnt want to add anything to an already difficult situation.
There isnt another woman anymore, which to be honest is a good thing, toxic situation which did nothing but make things worse. Which is why i have felt so much guilt.
As for seeing my DC's, i would see them every second of every day if i could. Its the little things that i miss with them. The things that when you are all together you take for granted, wake ups, bed times, even the noise! All reminders of how stupid we can be

Stop wallowing OP. What’s done is done, you’ve been apart nearly a year and you need to try and take the emotion out of it all as much as possible and be practical.

File for divorce. You each have an equal right to do it so just pull the plaster off and get on with it. You’ve tried mediation so that’s done. You can download the forms online and it costs about £500 to submit them.

Leaving yourself short is stupid. It’s her responsibility to support the children too, she has a job and can make a claim for benefits on top. You’re painting yourself as a martyr doing penance for your wrongs and it’s not helping anyone. Finances in a split are about needs not blame and courts don’t penalise based on moral behaviour so it won’t matter that you had an affair - you still have to eat and feed your kids when they’re with you.

If you can’t see your children from where you’re living then try and move.

Reduce your payments, you’re being daft not to. Just do it and tell your ex.

Why aren’t you seeing the children more? 40 mins is not far - I commute to work longer than that every day. Why are you having to build up ?

You can press ahead with divorce

You left for an OW, moved away from the children (to be with OW?) but it hasn't worked out.

Lifestyle choices have also contributed to a driving ban. You now seldom see your children.

Don't compound you ex's problems by now showing up at her door and forcibly moving back in. That would be unbelievably cruel, bad for her mental wellbeing and therefore bad for the children.

You are paying child maintenance plus an extra amount. Would that extra be part of the mortgage to a house in which you hold an equitable interest?

Up until a couple of weeks ago i was seeing DD almost every weekend and my DS's regularly, but not to a schedule as they are at an age where they are out and about with friends. We've never formally agreed arrangements as she doesnt agree with things. As such she has periods where she says i cant see them. This is one of those periods. They come and go. Im hoping that if i can move closer then i will get more access to them as there would be less travelling involved etc.
Will need to look at progressing the divorce myself as there seems to be little or no movement her side, even though she was the one who was wronged.
As AnneLovesGilbert has said. I need to remove emotion from things as much as possible and be realistic. Not looking forward to the response, but i need to be more focused and advise her i need to reduce the amount i pay. I've already started a dialogue around this but her response was pretty non-existent. Its best for all in the long run as i f i were to lose my job, then i cant pay anything.
Thanks for all the input

if possible try to move right near them even if it is just a flat in a bed sit (if moving back into the martial home is not something you want to do).

in terms of what is fair to pay that is hard to say. I was obliged to pay school fees for 5 and university costs for 5 in our order, no matter who they live with which is at least £50k a year. Every family and their income and their resources and what their children cost will differ hugely. our full time childcare for the youngest was £30k a year of after taxed income alone! So CMS amounts mean very little when two parents work full time and need full time childcare for under 5s whether at a nursery or child minder or nanny.

I think guilt is holding you back from moving on with your life. Learn from the past but don't let it stop you from being the best dad to your kids. You can find a balance where you see them regularly and pay towards their upkeep but don't leave yourself short.
I would definitely recommend a few sessions of counselling to help you separate the guilt from the practicalities.
Best of luck to you - your love for your kids is shining through your post.

@PicsInRed not at all. There was OW, but not a straight forward situation. Yes that was the major contributing factor in the break up of my marriage. But certainly not a simple explanation. I live alone and was never living with OW after my marriage breakup. My ex was obviously and rightly devastated after our marriage break up and requested i moved as far away as possible. I had friends that live in the area i do now and so had a slight support network, which is why i moved here.
I have in no way suggested in any of my posts that i would turn up at my ex's demanding to move back in, so im really not sure where you are getting that idea from. Ive actually said that is something i would not do?
There is no mortgage on the ex marital home as it is a rental property, which i am no longer on the tenancy agreement.
I simply wish to be able to live, spend time with my children and be the best dad i can be. I cant do that whilst paying the amount i do now. I hold no vested interest in the property, the amount i have been paying is because i messed up and didnt want my ex or my children to suffer financially because of that. However, if it continues the way it is then i will be in jeopardy of losing my job, because i cant afford the travel and therefore i would not be able to contribute at all.
@bluejelly thanks for your words. yes i think you are right. I need to ensure that i am the best i can be to support my ex, and be the best dad i can be in the situation. Thats the most important thing to me

A PP suggested you moving back into the marital home. I wanted to dispel this as a feasible option due to how disruptive it would be to the stability that the ex has managed to wrangle from such a difficult situation. It sounds like she is managing to get her life back on track (working more) and obviously it is desirable that this continue, for the children.

It's good if you are giving extra money toward the support of your children. Obviously, if you cannot afford it, the amount will need to change. Do the best to engage your ex in a discussion of this. Consider moving closer to your children so that you can see them regularly - your ex would be right if she is concerned about long regular legs of travel for youngish children.

I think you should press ahead with the divorce and make sure you get good legal advice beforehand. It does cost money but it is entirely worth it. If you go into a mediator without a starting position you will simply be asked how you plan to accommodate your partners' demands and go from there. I know a number of men who have been unfairly treated as a result.

Blame has nothing to do with it and the fair way to sort it out is to split assets and access equally. You both need to have suitable homes for the children to stay and of course both of you are going to be much worse off to do that.

@PicsInRed absolutely, and this train of thought had never entered my mind, ever. My ex and the children have had enough upheaval to their lives as it is, I would never even suggest such a thing, whether there was a vested interest in the property or not.
I also agree on the travel, which is why im looking to move closer to them.
@Bouledeneige if im honest, there arent any assets to split. My only concern is that if i were to continue to pay what i have been then its not sustainable and would end up in a loss of my job, and then i cant contribute at all. My worry is that im potentially letting my ex down again, but im hoping she will see it from a realistic standpoint. Only time will tell.

You’ve answered your own question. Pay less, move closer, find a place you can fit the kids in even if on sofa beds. Sort out proper access. Don’t think of it as helping her out with kids you are an equal parent and equally responsible. She has an equal right to work and earn. The kids have a right to see both parents. Plan a holiday with kids over summer even if you stay with friends or family for free. Insist she allow you to see them / take them away. Kids don’t want to see parents broke jobless or homeless or living in a bedsit. They are selfish and generally want parents to fit round their lives and disrupt their schedules as little as possible. It sounds as though there is enough money for you both to have acceptable housing even if it’s smaller than what you had before. Kids having time with both parents is what any court will prioritise. And what’s right now may be different in a few years when older kids don’t want to do overnight stays and just want to pop in when it suits them. After 2 years you can divorce with agreement or no fault divorce should have come in by then as I’m guessing there’s no grounds for you to divorce her. If she will struggle on min CM you can offer to pay towards certain expenses eg school uniforms and trips etc and give kids some pocket money directly. Ask yourself what would the kids consider fair and ask them what they want re staying with each of you. Don’t let her use the kids as revenge whatever you have done it’s not their fault.

@Dropthedeaddonkey Thanks, yes makes perfect sense. I have no grounds to divorce so would only look to do after 2 years. I know what i have to do, just feel like even more of a proverbial, when it was my actions that led to the breakdown of the marriage. Have to deal with that i suppose.
I do need to make sure i am there for the children so i suppose the plan is as clear as it can be.
Thanks

Just done some quick calculations. You take home approx £3300, and are paying over £1500 to your ex, leaving you with £1700-1800 a month. I would say that doesn't sound sustainable given you have ti provide a home for your 3 children to stay at too. Obviously it depends where you live as rent costs can vary so much.

Your ex needs to apply for Universal Credit and suck it up like the rest of us single parents do, unfortunately. Do you suspect she already is but may wish to lay the guilt on you some more to keep you paying (can't say I blame her!). She may well be.

If she won't talk about it then you will have to make all the decisions yourself. You need to work out what you need to live on enough to provide a home for your children, and go from there.

You have been an idiot, your ex wishes to punish you - lord knows I would want to do the same (I've been the cheated on wife). But you need to think about your children maintaining a relationship with you for their benefit.

On a side note, on roughly 55k, you have no assets at all? No pension? Where was all your uncome going whilst living with your wife? Do you (and her) have difficulty budgeting, or are their other circumstances which have prevented this (eg. you are still relatively young, only recently increased earnings etc).

@ThisMustBeMyDream you are there or there abouts with your calculations, although my take home is a tad less and i pay my ex a bit more.
Ive never been great with money, but there are other things at play too.
My job requires me to travel, i have to pay out for that and then reclaim monthly which makes up a portion of my take home. I do not take this figure out from my take home when working out on the calculated amount due, so i am also technically worse off because of that.
I completely understand why my ex wants me to feel guilty, and she tells me she isnt claiminig anything and i see no reason not to believe her. Im not proud of what i have done, but equally i cant make things any better if ive never got any money to be able to do anything with or for my children.
I will be sending her the email this evening with the revised amounts.

The guilt isn't helpful, you need to be practical.

What can you afford? £1k? £1200? No need to pay the absolute minimum if you can afford more, but you also need to be able to rent a 2-3 bed house near them.

@abbyHammond i know what you mean about the guilt.
Ive drawn up an email offering £1000 per month to my ex. I also need to give £100 to her for her parents. They "gifted" an amount about 18 months ago, long before we separated, so i could take a course to better my job. Once we split, that soon became an amount that they "loaned" and wanted back. Whether they let her keep that or not, is neither here nor there. Regardless, im offering £1100 in total, including that amount. It is a reduction on what i have been paying but that has become unsustainable. Rent on a 2 bed place is anywhere from £900-1100 per month in the areas we live (where i currently am, and where they live). Im basing my outgoings on the lower end which is what im currently paying. I never intend on paying the minimum as i dont wholly agree that there should be a set monetary value put on bring up children so will always pay above that as much as i can.
Just need to send the email now and wait to see what the response is.