Divorce Courts Financial Hearing

[CF43]

Hi, Does anyone have any experience of divorce court hearings, I have submitted paperwork to take our financial proceedings to court as an agreement between us can not be made, but I have no idea what to expect, do we have to all sit around a table with the judge, do we have to attend, will the judge look at the paperwork first then call us in for talks.

I don't want it to go to court my legal bill is 7K now, i could be looking at another 4 to 8K on top of this I have been advised and anything upto another year.

We have agreed contact arrangements but he won't sign any paperwork making everything we have discussed at mediation void.

Divorce and court is a pretty big subject. Try googling for an idea of the process. Something like this www.divorce.co.uk/divorce-resources/finance-procedure-guide

I had a solicitor for about 18 months, and as it was clear my ex was going to play out the process as long as possible at any cost, I then went LIP (litigant in person) self repped and took him to court. So other than the court fee it didn’t cost me any more, other than buying a lot of printer ink, a big file and a strong hole punch!

For court, they’re probably all different. I visited mine when I filed my Form E, to get the lay of the land. There was a waiting room, with 4 private rooms leading off. Then there were the judge’s rooms - normal sized, they sat at a large table and my ex, his solicitor and I sat in a row on the other side. I did the talking on my side and his sol did the talking for him. The judge lead everything and we answered when spoken to.

I think it depends on where you live on if you have to attend. The judge should have looked at the p/w beforehand.

There’s more to it, but signing up to wiki or even can help, as can becoming aquainted with the MCA S25. Just take it a step at a time.

I went to an FDA where you just sit in front of a judge and check what paperwork is required for the FDR and any actions to take. Literally lasted 5 minutes. My judge sent us to Solicitor led Mediation which proved successful and we never went to the FDR. This took a whole day! Overall cost of FDA and Mediation with Solicitors is probably £10k

We didn't have any ocurt proceedings or financial disclosure - we just had our solicitors advise and we reached a financial agreement without any of that and no mediation (but we did konw 100% of the other's finances, all joint accounts etc)

If yours goes to trial I think there are usually two court hearings - one which tries to give an indication of what you ought to settle for in the hope the final hearing won't be needed with both sides giving lots of financial information to the other in advance and then the final one where the judge decides who gets what.

Thanks, it is a scary thought having someone else deciding on what your finances are going to be, I was hoping it wouldn't come to this, I think my solicitor has done a brilliant job and I only hope that he uses this last ditch attempt to see sense before it costs us mega bucks.

It makes me so cross, he's literally my whole life on hold for the past 11 months and I hate him for it.

The judge making the decision only happens at the final hearing if you both cannot. There are lots of negotiations normally before then. I went into one of the private rooms with my ex’s solicitor just before the 2nd hearing, and we decided then. It ended up being pretty similar to my first proposal 2 years earlier! We took the hand written decision into the judge, who checked it over, said it was fair and asked when the solicitor would have it typed up by.

You are both pushed quite hard to negotiate. Hopefully the idea of court will help your ex see sense

In my case the process in 2015 to 2016 was:

FDA (First Directions Appointment)

Ideally both parties will have exchanged their Form E's (or whatever they are called these days). Both then prepare their questions to ask about the other partner's Form E or anything else they consider relevant. Judge will decide what questions are and are not relevant and give direction on what further information and documents are required. Unless you are LIP you will likely not have to say anything.

FDR (Financial Dispute Resolution)

This is meant to give an indication of what might be said at a Final Hearing. Notoriously ineffective apparently as booked at 3 per hour according to legal on MN.

Final Hearing

This can get nasty as solicitors/barristers and judge can ask almost anything they want. Each person will give about half a days oral evidence (or longer if a complex case). Applicant goes first.

After hearing the evidence and advisers' summing up the Judge will leave the room to make a decision based on the oral evidence and the documents in the bundles submitted by the parties.

Worst case scenario is that Judge makes a decision neither partner wanted.

Hi thanks everyone, we have done the Form E and things and questions he has made one offer in the past but it was so low it was insulting, to think that the properties he said were suitable for us were complete dives in run down areas, i would be too afraid to open the door not alone going outside. He makes out he can't afford a massive mortgage but he's taken on the wrong person seeing as our joint mortgage currently is in both names i walked into the bank on his behalf with all the facts and figures and got a figure from the bank which was completely different.

If it goes to court it will make him look like a liar and show him to be the b...... that he really is.
However I know that court will delay this process even more, and my life is on hold whilst this is happening and I hate it.
But I am not going to life in a s... hole for the rest of my days and I want to give our son the best chance in life to be something, if he takes the wrong path still when he is a teenager at least I have done everything possible to prevent it.
I've done mediation for contact and have been very fair and just with contact arrangments but he won't sign the documents making them legal, so what's the point, he won't stick to anything.

My experience was slightly different to Beers. My ex, even though represented, was asked a couple of question at the FDA. I think the judge did it to get his measure. She also added a question for me to rely to before the FDR on my mortgage potential (zero chance so in my favour). Then our FDR was scheduled to give enough time for negotiations etc if needed. They do try to push for you to sort it yourselves as much as possible first - can get very shirty if you don’t.

Have you done mediation for finances before applying to court, as this is a stipulation and you should have a signed form from the mediator to this effect?

Re initial proposals - I had the same - offering me 10% of the value of the matrimonial home. Quite laughable really as I ended up with over 50%.

Try not to think about what court will show him up as - it doesn’t work that way. You might even find yourself chastised for something, it’s just how they work. They deal simply on the facts rather than the behaviour.

So you’ve exchanged Form E? If so you should be able too see everything in black and white, as long as everything has been disclosed.

As far as where you live, anywhere unsuitable will just be discounted esp. with a child, if the other party is living in a much better house. It’s all about being reasonable.

Now oddly enough, for me I think court sped the process up. If I hadn’t taken him to court I still be trying to resolve things now. I think the judge got the jist as with the decree nisi date being 2 years before she asked If I’d like her to sort the decree absolute straight away 😀

Just need to ask, how are e forms exchanged and to whom are they sent to? Court/solicitor?
Sounds silly but don’t want to send in mine first for info to be copied.
STBXH doesn’t know DC’s birthdays or their plans for education does it matter?

You are both expected to get your Form Es to court and also exchange them with each other (ie to your respective solicitors or you if you are not represented) by a date already set by the court (ie before your 1st Hearing)

In practise these can be sent in late, and there's not a lot you can do about it. Just make sure you get yours in by the date asked for. Re dates/info he has no idea of - it might be relevant to you (I felt the same when my ex got that wrong too) but in the scheme of things is not that relevant.

Just try to go with the flow for the moment and do whatever is asked of you re court.

Read the first link I put up which briefly explains the procedure. Btw filing means sending to court and exchanging means sending to the other party

...and also, if you are doing this yourself, keep copies of everything!

Thank you!
No court date given just his lawyer wanting mutual exchange on 29th of this month.

Well I’d be guided by your solicitor them. Have you done mediation for finances? If so there should have been some sort of disclosure already given then.

Absolutely nothing has happened other than STBXH severely crossed the line and is filing for divorce on MY unreasonable behaviour.I returned the acknowledgement of service agreeing to the divorce but not with the behaviour ( the lies were just too big to agree with) Sent reasons why I didn’t agree with behaviour against me.
That was 4 weeks ago.His lawyer said fill in e forms so that’s what I’ve done. Waiting to hear what happens next.

Ah ok I wonder if there’s a little confusion here. The divorce itself and the finance settlement are 2 separate things.

Your STBX has filed for divorce citing unreasonable behaviour on the divorce side, and in the meantime you are exchanging Fom Es for the finance side. If you can’t agree the finances then you have to go to mediation before you go to court - the one with potentially 3 hearings.

I think all this depends on how much you want to get divorced. Unreasonable behaviour might sound unfair to you but in the grand scheme of things makes absolutely no difference to the finances or anything (unless there’s been very bad abuse, I think). Unless you want to prolong th8ngs, you’d be better off agreeing
Here are the grounds for divorce:
www.linnitts.co.uk/family-law/divorce/grounds-for-divorce

I know it doesn’t seem right, but all the to-ing and fro-ing between solicitors and telling yours just how bad things were, the effect on the kids etc is just wasting money in solicitors fees as it’s all largely irrelevant. If stbx was the unreasonable one in the marriage, is he really going to be any less reasonable now? It’s best to just bite the bullet really. Think about it, neither of you will accept UB so unless there’s been desertion or adulterous your next option is 2 yr separation with consent.

Of course if you’re not in England the rules might be different

Do you still have a solicitor?

Thanks for the advice and info. Going to book another app tomorrow.

Hi everyone,

I give up I just don't know how to get through to this guy, we had a big screaming match the other day (not in front of children they were at school) because it's like hitting my head against a brick wall.

Basically he is saying that I will be in a better financial position to what I am now and that there isn't enough money to go around, I know that but he is capable of getting a mortgage 10 times bigger than mine, he earns 60K plus compared to my 3K a year at most at present. He says that I am asking for too much money but what he is offering isn't enough to buy a house with, I don't want to live in a palace but surely we have a right to have a house of our choice in a safe and decent area. My worry is that what is he offering won't buy a house, I can't afford a mortgage, if we end up in the wrong area I won't be able to get out again, I won't be able to afford to move, my son is at an vunerable age with teenage just around the corner.

He says that I can't have everything, I don't want everything but there are things that need to be considered, i gave up work, I have virtually nothing in ways of a pension, I have to re-train to get any decent qualifications in order to get a decent paying job, it will take time and what are we supposed to live on.

He just shrugs and says that there isn't enough money to go around, I just can't get through to him. Why should we (my son and I) live in s...hole whilst he goes out and buys a three bed semi somewhere, I am the one that has our son the majority of time, he goes away 3/4 of the year, his needs are not the same as ours, does he need a three bed semi with a garden, he has no animals no interest in gardening, he doesn't or hasn't done anything to date with the one we live in now.

The solicitors we have are taking their time and our money it takes weeks to get an answer out of them, if this goes to court I have to go through mediation again, having just done it all for the contact which took months and he still won't sign the My plan to make it legal.

I'm sorry I just don't know what to do.

For years this guy walked out when our son was 10 days old, every time I try to leave it makes it impossible, I leave it 5 years think it should be no problem, but he comes back again trying to be dad of the year, I let him for our son's benefit, I go to mediation for months and plan out all the days and times to make it fair, he won't sign the document. What to I have to do to get rid of this b........

What you have to do is stop listening to your STBX (what he says is pretty irrelevant as it’s from his POV) and discuss with your solicitor what is reasonable.

Mediation to discuss finances might only need to be one session. If the mediator feels there is no point progressing it further they should just sign off on the form required for court. You need to do this before court or you will just prolong things.

Whether there is or is not enough money to go around Ihave no idea, but priority is given to the children and their welfare- at least until they complete schooling. Pensions should be equalised. You will be expected to be able to earn at least the minimum living wage (for me 12k per annum). If you can’t get a mortgage, get proof.

Btw if you have already done mediatoion for child arrangements, is he actually seeing his son?

Yes at the moment he comes and goes as he feels like it, he's taken him to his grandad's 80th birthday 200 miles away this weekend spend most of saturday night crying but suppose the first time he's even been away from me ovenight is the worst.

I can't see mediation working though as he just won't listen and I am scared that I will get pushed into accepting something that isn't right for us.

I just don't get him, all he sees is I will be better off even if it is a slum hell hole that we live in for the rest of our lives because it will be mortgage free.

A good mediator won’t let being pushed happen. A lot of people don’t think mediation will work but you have to go through the motions to get the required form for court.

It’s obviously not going to be an easy divorce, but you do need to stop trying to figure your STBX out. A lot will say anything, of have no idea on how the law works. At the end of the days it’s all about reasonable needs for both sides, with children a priority.

Also, for a lot of men it’s all about maintaining control. The trick is to aim for a place where they no longer have that control. With kids it can be difficult, so something does need to be put in place. Sounds like the sooner you mover the better too.

couldn't agree more on that score, my poor son is stuck in the middle, he keeps asking when are we getting our own house, do you need my pocket money bless him.

Totally fed up but at least the sun is shining today.

Your going to get 50% of everything you both own...
His pension will be quiet big by now.
Don't argue with your ex, just tell him that it is best to do it all in writing, via solicitors...

You are listening too much to STBX. Basically, you will get at least 50% of marital worth, and probably more, in order to ensure family welfare, eg, housing children & meeting their needs.
Mediation may not be useful in your case. I did not go thru it, & my lawyer was able to argue to the court that we were not doing it, and to go straight to Financial Hearings process.
Please remember, the court WILL NOT agree an Order that is unfair to one of the parties, so your STBX cannot screw you in that regard. He sounds like a bully.
Beers summary is correct, & is what I went thru. Take a big breath, hold your nerve & find some support. You will be fine in the long run, and will take great satisfaction in seeing your STBX getting his comeuppance. But it may take awhile. (mine took 4 years)
Remember, the court is your friend.

Oh my god, I can not go through this torture for 4 years, with him coming and going when he feels like it.

I have an appointment for first assessment with a mediation again on wednesday, he was supposed to be looking after our son next week whilst I went for a job interview but he's changed his mind so I have to find a play scheme to have him, hes' not happy because his dad has always put work first and now I am doing the same, but I don't have a choice, I have to find another job with more hours sometime so that we are secure.

I had a thought this am and it wasn't a good one, that my ex is hoping that I fail, that I make a mess of things and then he can claim i am an unfit mother and take our son away from me sometime in the future, I hate thinking like this but he would do it.

I have asked him if is is going for custody and he just smirks and says it is not something he has discussed at the moment.