Help I don't get what my solicitor said any have experience

[Changeisahead]

So today I saw my solicitor to finalise my form E for court.

So im not working at moment been having panic attacks and been signed off by the doctor for stress, DV and abuse still living in the same house.

I have every intention of going back to work once I am free and settled, my solicitor said the court may insist that I go back to work full time, I don't get, I didn't work full time before and I have a 6 year old, and a older Daughter how I am supposed to go back to work full time, I don't have a career anymore I gave that up, 20 odd years ago to bring the kids up, had been working part time do odd jobs type work.

What about the 13 weeks of school holidays a year, even if my x shares some of that I will still have to pay for holiday clubs and out of the salary I will receive I wont be able to afford them, alone eat!

Anyone have any help they can share feeling so very stressed.

Thanks

It's hard to explain what the solicitor said without context. Did they just mention it as a possibility, or did they say they thought it was likely?

You can get a second opinion. If your solicitor doesn't have experience in domestic abuse I would strong recommend that you do.

Have you contacted women's aid or an equivalent local domestic abuse support organisation? Are you getting any counselling or CBT?

It's not surprising that you're having panic attacks given that you're still living with your abuser. Have you sought advice on options for living separately?

Work would be the least of my worries tbh, I advise you to focus on improving the living situation and your mental health. You may need to get more work in future but not immediately.

Judges no longer support mothers looking after dc and your solicitor is rightly forewarning you that the expectation is to work fulltime to support yourself and children. You will get CMS and tax credits if applicable.

You may get some Spousal maintenance but it will be for a short time frame, maybe 2 or 3 years max. This is only likely if your Ex is very high earner.

Sadly women are financially disadvantaged by divorce and this must be getting worse as benefits are less generous. Its why MN posters always advocate women never give up work to have children. The reality is women can be left struggling after divorce with most of the childcare reslonsibilities whilst the Ex H contributes only a small portion of his salary.Irs unfair and detrimental to children but that is the reality.

Your Ex will only have to contribute CMS at the standard rate. You may be able to get a greater share of any equity for housing but the default position is 50:50.

What is the housing situation? Is there a pension?

Hello another Emma, Thanks for that yes I have sought advice and basically I have tried everything to get him to out of my life quickly there is no short fix, the Law does not support woman in DV unless you physically been stabbed or have wounds that are clearly. My x has a non mol and I still cant get any where.

I want to work and I will but not at the moment yes you are right I need to improve my living circumstance, and that is what I will say to the court, but still she said they may ask that I work full time. I get it I really do, its not a free lunch I m not looking for one, I don't expect him to work and earn the money and look after me, but on the flip I also don't expect to be forced into full time work when not able to

Please can anyone explain what the court will say.

I actually I don't mean what the court will say as no one can predict that What I mean is does anyone have any experience

My point is life begins at 50 is how can I be expected to work if I cannot function in every day life, I had two panic attacks last week, my daughter is only 6 how will I pay for care for her through the holidays. I don't have a career where I earn the 80 K he does last year I earn 9K

Also Life begins at 50 the default position is 50/50 so he goes off earns his huge salary and I don't I was told they never leave anyone worse off than the other one.

I think what she was probably trying convey is that the court may not make (be able to make) the kind of order that will provide for you to never work again.

The court obviously can’t order you go out and work full time from tomorrow but when looking at the complete financial picture which they must do now they do need to consider - what is your potential earning capacity, ability to work etc. Obviously potential childcare costs would be factored in.

Your legal team need to know - what did you do before, could you/would you return to that?, what else could you do, would you need to fund any training to get back into work, if you return to work what hours could you do, what childcare would be needed, what would that be likely to cost. You need to think about it because the other side may well stand in front of the Judge and say you are perfectly capable of getting X job and earning X amount and you don’t want to be on the back foot in your team being able to explain why it isn’t as simple as all that.

It’s such a daunting time especially with the abuse and still being under the same roof. Try not to feel pressured by this - this isn’t about forcing you into any old full time job tomorrow especially when you are dealing with the current trauma and anxiety. It’s about trying to think as best you can about what you want for your future and trying finding a way for you to have the opportunity to get there.

DinoMamasaurus I hear what you are saying and agree, its hard for me to rationalise I have had an verbal abuser for years tell me I am crap at everything undermining me calling me dreadful names. That just the name calling, without the violence, of course none of that is even heard at a financial hearing.

No I could not go back to My full time, job I have been out of that market place for some 20 years it was a sales role and very pressured. I cant even do that Job on a part time basis I was sacked.

My solicitor didn't even ask me what I did before, she already booked my barrister, for the court hearing, believe me if I could of gone back to do full time work successfully and had a good career I would of done it years ago as it would of made my dreadful situation much more manageable , I struggled to find full time work. I guess I am worrying too much

My x is vile, as I said im not looking for a free lunch, my soli put on the court forms I intend to work part time once the divorce is finalised then look for full time work once the children are older.

Sorry to be pessimistic but it is better to know upfront the challenges.

This is from a news article in 2017 and certainly is the experience that most women have.

*Frances Hughes is a senior partner at London law firm Hughes Fowler Carruthers. In her long career in family law, she said, things have never looked so bad for women. “In terms of getting real access to justice, we must be back to the way things were before the second world war. The legal aid reforms have had a terrible effect on the courts, as has the reorganisation within the courts themselves.

“A lot of matters involving children are now heard by lay magistrates. There aren’t enough judges and the legal aid reforms have meant the courts are just jammed with the massive rise in litigants in person, which make for very laborious, gruelling and exhausting cases for all concerned. Women are the losers in all of this. Even in mediation, women tend to do badly.”*

For context I have just survived a very hostile divorce due to an abusive man so completely understand your thoughts..however courts don't look at a case "sympathetically" and I don't think they really take into account the childrens needs..a judge will view it as perfectly acceptable for your child to go into childcare whilst you work fulltime. You top up your salary with benefits and the Dad retains 90% of his salary.

In my case Ex was an extremely high earner and whilst my earnings were not bad I was still a much lower earner than him and I had contributed more than 50% of house equity yet the asset split was 50:50. My situation is not unique. CM threshold means he pays considerable less than someone on a much lower salary. Prior to divorce he went on a spending spree, depleting assets, yet non of that was judged relevant.

It's not right but it is the reality.Men seem to have persuaded judges that they were hard done by so the balance has swung even more in their favour.

The divorce law says "no undue hardship" yet judges now add "but that doesn't mean no hardship". The hardship only applies to mothers however it seems.

Your solicitor can propose SM but be prepared for 2-3 years only which maybe sufficient recovery time.

Try to keep focussed on a life away from him and know that it will be better than today.

Lifebegins50 I am glad you sent me that article,
I am quite aware of what the court may ask of me as I said previously Im not looking for a free lunch, I think I was frustrated as my sol didn't offer more support but then she not a counsellor. she didn't even ask me if I had a full time career to go back to or she didn't take into account that I was medical unfit to work at all alone full time

Lifebegins50 I am a clear loser already in all this, Ive lived with an abuse violent man for 20 year I stayed as I thought I could fix it! I now Understand there is no way you can rationalise with anyone like him, and understand why he's behaved the way he has. but you know what lifebegins, our children get effected every day I continue to live with him, and they have darker times ahead. All they know is misery and upset and abuse

your post says absolutely nothing about my current circumstance. It hot AIR you posting that post actually made me giggle, as it reminds me that whatever happens working full time having not a penny to my name and seeing my kids less, I can smile be safe and actually know my life is my own to live and be free of abuse. If I am that happy all that will happen is my kids will be happy, right now I am failing them so anything I can or cant do will be a result. Yes of course one day I want to work full time being at home and now working is boring and Im always skint, I need and want to rebuild my life, right now I'm just struggling to get though each day.

Wow of wow I do wonder what on earth you even bothered post that message, its just someone's view And yes you are pessimistic as I say that article actually proves nothing, I'm guess you had a bad experience of the court system??? My doctor told me three bits of very important advice FACT EVIDENCE AND EXPERINCE May I ask what yours is

With all due respect Lifebegins your replies are not wholly objective, the OP may have a similar outcome but may have a different one, and it's wrong to state or imply that what happened to you is universal. It depends on the circumstances, the lawyers, and the judge.

and I don't I was told they never leave anyone worse off than the other one

This usually applies to assets only, not income post divorce. My Ex has an income post CMS 6x mine so our standard of living is very different. It's like an episode of "Rich house, poor house" for our DC.

Ummm cross post

Life begins at 50 our post crossed I now see why you feel cheated,

you say considerable less, I have earnt between 5 to 9K for most of our married life he earnt 78K last year.

I don't have a full time career to go back to, lets give an example if I worked in a shop full time (not that there is anything wrong with working in a shop) I would not even be able to afford the holiday club and after school care, I challenge my x or the court to show me a job how and where I can do this, its going to be a interesting ride ahead.

Do you mind me asking how long you were married. I know for certain courts do not award in favour of one person so I do wonder why they left you in a weaker position to your x. If they have done then there is something very wrong. Did you consider contesting the order that was agreed as it seems wrong. The court rules that no one is every left in a weaker position that the other so he cannot live like a king and you not to. I am truly sorry if this is the case I think you need to revisit.

I don't agree that men persuade judges in their favour but if what you say is right I will keep my eye on the ball for this one, if I believe and think this is happening I will make sure I shout very loud" Ive been bullied for far far too long, My strength has kept me alive and well to this point Im not failing now.

Lifebegins50 I just don't get your posts the courts look at all this, why wasn't it addressed that he earns 6x more than you, were you only married a short time?

They do not leave one person rich and the other poor, its equal standards this is exactly why woman don't get looked after in divorce, and given more money than the man, so it works the flip way too, a man does not get left with more than the woman, so let me get this straight and clear the court let him live the rich life and left you not in the same status, how did this happen I'm very confused and it seems another emma is too am I right anotheremma? are you a bit baffled too?

To OP

No two Divorces will ever be the same so listening to generalizations can be dangerous. I am not a family solicitor, but my understanding is that the Law applies equally to both genders.

Asset split will be based on many factors such as; length of marriage, age of children, earning potential, pensions. On the assumption that you will be the main carer the fact that there is a 6 year old child and you have historically earned much less is in your favour. However, Courts will also take into account that your ex has needs too. He needs to have; a roof over his head, food to eat, clothes to wear, etc.

Courts are unlikely to plunge one partner into poverty so the other can continue with same life as beforehand as though nothing had happened. If there are insufficient assets to go around (often the case) then both partners will have to accept a reduction in standard of living which will of course affect children too.

If you both complete Form E accurately and truthfully experienced family solicitors should be able to make a deal that is fair to both. However, if Courts become involved costs can rise rapidly which serves only to deplete assets.

Suggest you concentrate what is best for the 6 year old child rather get into a contest with ex over who gets what.

If you are the main carer then Child Benefit should go to your account. You will be able to claim Child Tax Credits too even if not working. If you work part then you may qualify for Working Tax Credits and possibly help with childcare. Make sure you claim the Council Tax reduction for being the only adult in the house.

Child Maintenance your ex should pay can be obtained from the online calculator. Look at the link:

www.gov.uk/calculate-your-child-maintenance

Divide your ex yearly earnings by 365 and then multiply by 7 to get the weekly amount. Enter this into the calculator and then enter the number of nights, if any, the child will stay with their father.

Suggest you do this via CMS. Application costs 20 pounds, but worth it as once they have made an assessment it is binding and can be back dated to the date of your application.

Tricks to watch out for that your ex may try to reduce Child Maintenance are; asking for 50:50 shared care of child. This results in fathers paying no child maintenance. Fair enough if both parents earn the same, but if there is a large difference it is wrong in my view. However, that is the current legislation.

Changing addresses and employers is another way of trying to evade CMS. Working on a self employed or through a Ltd Company seems to cause trouble too.

As for your Solicitor advising that you need to look for work I would say they are correct. Courts expect single mothers to work part time once children reach age 7 and move to full time once children are older.

Spousal Maintenance has no standard formula and can only be awarded by Court Order. Even if awarded it may only be for a short time as other poster has already said.

Good luck.

Women are expected to work and fund themselves. This isn’t the 1950’s we’re the alpha male pays for the little woman.

I’m a bit confused - you say you haven’t worked for 20 years, but your children are 6 and older. Did you stop working before you had kids?

Your EH has a financial responsibility towards his children but you now have to start paying for yourself.

I am not basing the outcome solely on my personal circumstances but the pattern from many cases that I am aware of.

It's just to forewarn you so you have reasonable expectations. As others says it is dependant on how your Ex puts forward his case and how the Judge responds on the day BUT the trend is in favour of you working full time and being financially self sufficient with CMS payments for your children until 18. I know that might feel it's impossible now but you will be in a better place in 2-3 years. Your Ex may argue for a "bar" which means you cannot go back for an increase (amount or term) if circumstances change. I think he would be unlikely to secure a bar (Section 28) in your case as your dc is quite young.

Your pension is important so don't disregard that and hopefully there is enough joint assets to help with housing, preferably so you can be mortgage free.

Your Ex will be judged as having higher mortgage raising capabilities so there is a strong case for you to have more equity.

Has your Ex made an offer yet? Where possible I would advocate an agreement outside court but I know with abusive spouses there is often no other alternative.

It is a horrible journey but know that you will get through it.

Northern Spirt,

WOW, I am not sure I every insinuated I thought it was the 1950's or that I thought I shouldn't or won't work full time eventually.

Where did I ever say that, it seems that people really take things out of context here and then run with it instead of giving fact and evidence. Two things that I have learnt through my journey are essential in life.

I have never had a Alpha male look after me, I been married to a abusive violent man for 20 years. Who manipulates and control, me and my daughter. I tired to fix my marriage for many years until I finally realised I can't fix someone who doesn't think that have a problem.

I am pretty sure I didn't say I had not worked for 20 years either, I can't be bothered to read back over my posts, but if that is the way it came over that is wrong, I worked most of our married life, part time and before we were married full time and more. Before we were married I earnt double what my husband earns now, once we had children I worked part time two jobs somethings three, my husband has never worked over time and has never put himself out, hes always bought everything he wanted for himself, put himself first and never thought about me, needless to say I haven't put myself before him or my children.

So what I actually said was due to DV and Abuse, I was sacked from my job, and have been signed off by the doctor and regularly have panic attacks. I said I can't work full time at the moment In fact I can't even work part time, I can just about get up in the morning and put one foot in front of the other.

My original question was what the expectations of the court would be in the short term. Long term I understand the expectation would be for me to work full time, I am not expecting a free lunch, I never had one when I was married, so now after divorce I do not expect to get, but what I do expect is not to come out in a weaker position, I have been told of a repeated basis by my solicitor and my barrister this will not happen. If it does I will appeal. I repeat again in case anyone thinks I am looking for a free lunch I am looking for a fare share of what I build over the last 20 years. I want to rebuild my life without him in it and I am sure I will not do that with a part time job.

May I re ask people to give fact and evidence. Thanks

Unfortunately for you I don’t think the history of who contributed what makes much difference. The court will look at who needs what, given what future income and expense expectations they have, in order to share the marital assets. And in doing that they don’t just look at what income you have now, but what you could reasonably expect to have if you were working. I appreciate this is not helpful to your current position but that is presumably why your solicitor has raised it.

OMG Yes yes I know this. its not unfortunate its face and that's the whole point Im making. I can't earn the 78K he does. I don't have a career.

I agree they look at what is on the table on the day. I cannot ever earn 78K its fact. they will not say I can. believe if I could I would be messaging here Id of been off years ago. If I was working full time I could expect to probably earn in the region of 17K possibly and that would be pushing it. I get it I really really do, but it isn't the original point I raised. I said I felt pressured as Im having panic attacks and can't put one foot in front of the other alone work! I have to be well to work, otherwise Ill just lose another job which is what happened with the last one.

I have been told they do look at what each party brought to the table I gave up my career, and now don't have one. It is helpul really it is as I could never ever earn in the region of anything like he does and you cannot change the facts.

Just in terms of your expectations I think it is really important you try to drill down as much as possible with you legal team the following:

• potential offers to make
• best case/worst case orders a court might make if you go to a final hearing

Ask your solicitor to show you an asset schedule (now that you hopefully have all the financial disclosure from you both to hand this is a critical document your solicitor can prepare) With the asset schedule they can show you how the assets/income position sit now and then how they would sit based on the most likely outcomes/offers you might make. This will be really helpful as you will see the percentage of the overall asset split each of you could end up with. The position on income, capital, and pension is all interrelated so you need to look at the whole picture to understand what the court might order and why that would be the case.

I think you need to see the real numbers in front of you in this way to understand what may happen and you can determine how you then feel about it in terms of no one coming off better or worse. You really shouldn’t go ahead with the conviction you won’t come off worse when you haven’t been shown what the possible spectrum of outcomes is. Your idea of being worse off and your lawyers idea of you being worse off may not be the same at all.

A word of caution on potentially appealing - the grounds to do so are very limited and it may not be a possibility. Even in cases where it is possible it is expensive and you are not guaranteed that there outcome will change. I don’t want to sound pessimistic here but it is crucial you cover this with your team so you don’t go into a final hearing feel you have a safety net that isn’t in fact there.

Now is definitely the time to look at settlement options and what is reasonable.

Of course you may not get a choice about whether it proceeds to a final hearing as clearly you need both of you to agree in order to settle BUT keep in mind every hearing adds +++ to your costs which is coming off the bottom line for both of you. Now is the time to really get your team to get you to grips with the numbers so you know what is worth going to trial over and what you will be comfortable settling at. Good luck!

I divorced 6 years ago when I had a 3 yr old and and 6 yr old. I reduced my working hours from full time to part time, in a shop. I worked about 20hours a week for about £500 a month and I got topped up in tax credits with an extra £800 a month, plus child benefit. I got maintenance from my ex too, not much as he doesn't earn much but still.

Then each year after that I increased my hours little by little, took more responsibility, started using childcare (got extra tax credits to pay for it) and I now have a 9yr old and a 12yr old. I work as an HR Manager, still in retail. I earn a decent salary now and tax credits still pay for childcare, before and after school clubs.

I get nearly 7 week's holiday a year, as does ex. We split up the school hols between us so don't need holiday club (tho quite often the youngest likes to go to sports clubs and tax credits pays for it).

So my point is, there is light at the end of the tunnel...but you make your own light. The court wants you to stand on your own two feet.

Wow finally someone talk sense, yes of course that is good advice
what one person on here might think rubbish another might think that is good, and yes I already know what is on the table Ive managed everything with regard to money for last 20 years all I don't know is the value of his pension they are huge

for example someone told me they got £500 spousal for a year, to me that is amazing! Id be lucky being married if Ive seen £50.00 a month from my x alone that and before anyone jumps on the band wagon Im giving that as an example Im not expecting to get that!

At the moment I have jack shit, yes jack shit so no savings no money and no pension, so going anything is better than nothing, my ex is an control freak he thinks he can make the decisions, I know in the end all we spend comes off the overall amount left.

In general there is not a lot on the table on offer, but I have to safe guard myself and look to what is best for the future, I know its not about today and its not about tomorrow its about long term. My ex will use anything to be in control and tell me what I can and cant do.

I know I am going to trial as my x is not offering any of his pensions at all, he offering 50/50 split on the house and that's it. No spousal no CM 50/50 with children and there is police evidence where he's assaulted my oldest. Like Im going to agree to that lightly yeah sure NOT