Worst decision a woman could make

[Notbeingrobbed]

As a working mother with two children to support, my divorce has made me see that getting married was the worst financial decision I ever made.

I have been the higher earner so will lose a big chunk of the money that I have made throughout my life. I also have the kids to support (happy to).

My ex will get a big payout having benefitted from my income as well as his own for years.

Why would any modern woman marry? Oh, because we are all influenced by society (and hormones) to think it’s a good thing.

People say I am arguing like a man. But the law was surely designed to protect a stay-at-home mother with children from a husband who leaves. Not to protect a layabout-at-home father?

@Notbeingrobbed
If all women give up work permanently to raise children then what are we teaching our daughters? The vast majority of women now work out of the home so we aren't in any danger of that. Even without reforms to divorce law most women are choosing to work. I think showing girls and boys that they do have a choice and that they can adopt whatever roles/model they choose providing they can afford it and they understand the consequences of their choice is important. Horses for courses and all that...

@Hideandgo I understand that is the approach taken by some very middle class families. But then I never understood why such people would pay fees for a girl’s education if they didn’t think she should earn her own living at the end of it? Or do they just see Public School as a posh dating agency or finishing school like the Middletons?

I’m so glad I am living at this point in history. I believe women should take every opportunity to participate in the world and contribute to its future in all walks of like. I couldn’t have lived a Jane Austen existence - her characters not the author!

I understand children need parental input and support but it doesn’t have to be down to one parent or 24/7. I’ve said before that it strikes me that some SAHMs are not too happy being with their children anyway!

Finally, career potential is not the same as actual achievement. It is still harder for women in the workplace, not least because the men there think women have their husbands to support them and don’t need to advance.

Notbeingrobbed, it wasn’t really as blatant as that and the school was both not in the U.K. and not that expensive to attend (like the U.K. private ones). I think we’d gotten to the point where everyone was in agreement that girls should be educated to third level (standard thinking in my school). But there was something there that said ‘great if you can study medicine and be a dr. No problem if you work in a shop with no career path or chance to earn much’ which wouldn’t have been acceptable for the boys. They would have been considered failures for working in a shop. But it’s alright for women?

*working in a shop does not make a person any less valuable a human than anyone else. But it does not lead to high earnings or job security.

Going back to what our daughters will think - I suspect it will be not to define anyone according to gender or to enforce gender stereotypes. That’s where the political front line is these days. Yet we have only been discussing marriages between a man and a woman and how the law views those.

I wonder how the wave of LGBT divorces yet to come will change things??

Notbeingrobbed - I agree with your comments and am in a similar situation as I am part time but a higher earner than my husband. Was it suggested to you that you should go full time in order to increase income? I work 4 days a week and my STBXH is saying my earning potential is even higher as I should go full time.

My husband is also requesting that I get a valuation for my engagement ring. Given that my parents paid for our wedding, I paid £4,000 for our honeymoon, the only thing he actually paid for in terms of our marriage costs was my engagement ring, which cost around £1,500, and he clearly wants to try and get some of that back. He has and will benefit hugely from our marriage, but his greed amazes me. I doubt the engagement ring is worth very much but he needs me to prove it.

@pinkpanthershow I believe from something else I’ve read that engagement rings belong to the woman who received them! It’s property from before marriage. Strange but true, I think, as I had a house before marriage too but that is considered joint. The law is baffling.

Yes, my STBEX is suggesting I should be back working full time. I’d be happy with the earnings from that but I have my child to look after full time and various reasons to do with my working hours would make that impossible. He does not seem to see that but is not doing any parenting.

The greed is staggering and hurtful. Someone said I shouldn’t be bitter but how could I feel otherwise?

Thanks, I will check the engagement ring point. It is all unclear as the form we have asks us to declare any item we own over £500, although I really doubt my ring is worth more than that as second hand rings fetch very little.

It is impossible not to be bitter, but I am trying to see it as the cost of being free from him.

In same way as you, I am part time as I do more parenting, and have been since our son was born. I don't see why I need to be full time so I can ensure my ex gets more money from me, but will have to see what the lawyers say

I wonder how the wave of LGBT divorces yet to come will change things??

I'm genuinely excited to see the case law that comes from this- both when children are and are not involved. Only when gender is not a differentiating factor will we see what the courts really think of the purpose of divorce settlements.

I fear for a society that only values education and people in terms of how much money the can make. There is a lot of value in educating a girl who then stays at home with her kids and invests in them as is educating a man who takes a relatively low earning job as a nurse, care worker etc - all of which are very valuable jobs in society and makes our world a better place.

As someone said upfront, we all balance our marriages and families based on our values. These are decisions that we take based on what we know at the moment. Like everything else in life, some of these will turn out well and others will not.

@pinkpanthershow I think most household items have negligible resale value. I believe the only thing you need to list is cars but I may not be right about this.

@Moknicker the truth is society does put a monetary value on every activity. This is why different jobs have different pay rates. And it is galling for me to not keep the fruits of my labours.

I agree caring roles such as nursing are highly valuable and should be paid more but the market decides.

I don’t believe a woman’s role is just to raise children.

@Notbeingrobbed
Completely agree society does put a monetary value on activities. Doesnt mean it is the right monetary value as you note.

I also agree that a woman's role is not just to raise children. But it is important not to denigrate those that just want to do that - for some time like I did - or all the time like my mother did.

I have a lot of sympathy for your plight as I do for other low earning women who get shafted by their spouses - there but for the grace of god go i and all that. I agree with some of your generalisations based on your experiences. Just not all of them :)

Only when gender is not a differentiating factor will we see what the courts really think of the purpose of divorce settlements

Since when has Gender been a differentiating factor. I am not family Solicitor, but my understanding is that the Law applies equally to all regardless of Gender?

Women are the only Gender that can give birth so if THEY CHOOSE TO HAVE CHILDREN (Remember nobody can force them) then they mist accept possible interruption to career unless they can afford to hire live in nanny of pay for childcare. Or do things the old way and ask grandparents to help.

My mother went on to be a higher earner than father so having a child did not hinder her career. My parents both worked in NHS and whilst I was a young child they worked opposite shifts to there would always be someone around to look after me.

My next door neighbour was back to work 6 weeks after giving birth to daughter. She also works opposite shifts to her husband so child always has someone around.

I don't buy the argument that Women are disadvantaged.

@MissedTheBoatAgain
Women are the only Gender that can give birth so if THEY CHOOSE TO HAVE CHILDREN (Remember nobody can force them) then they mist accept possible interruption to career unless they can afford to hire live in nanny of pay for childcare. Or do things the old way and ask grandparents to help.
Why must women face possible interruption to their career? Normally having children is a joint enterprise so what about the father's responsibility here? Having a live in nanny or external childcare will not necessarily allow a new mother to return back to work if they are still recovering from pregnancy and birth. A third of women suffer PND, are they expected to just pull their socks up and get back to work ASAP? What about the baby's welfare in all of this?

My mother went on to be a higher earner than father so having a child did not hinder her career. My parents both worked in NHS and whilst I was a young child they worked opposite shifts to there would always be someone around to look after me
How do you know that your mother couldn't have achieved even more in her career if she hadn't had children? The fact a woman outearns a man doesn't mean her earning potential wasn't reduced as a result of having children.

My next door neighbour was back to work 6 weeks after giving birth to daughter. She also works opposite shifts to her husband so child always has someone around.
This is common in many countries however, I am grateful that this isn't the norm here. Maternity leave exists for a reason and lots of women would struggle to return to work six weeks post partum.

@MissedTheBoatAgain so you are saying only a woman is responsible for whatever costs their are either to her career or childcare when she has a baby. Surely this really is a family cost within a marriage!?

Remember I have myself sacrificed some career opportunities by being a mother even though I have remained the higher earner.

But also the decision to have children was very much a joint one within our marriage and carefully thought out. My complaint is that my ex did not then keep to the bargain by doing an equal share of either the earning or domestic chores. So I don’t see why the split should be 50:50. I have contributed 70%.

The trans activists disagree that women are the only gender who can give birth. I do not agree with them, just stating their argument.

How do you know that your mother couldn't have achieved even more in her career if she hadn't had children?

Easy answer. She only had one child. Back to work within a few weeks of giving birth. My existence never prevented her from attending her work as most of my childhood was with Grandparents or parents worked opposite shifts.

@MissedTheBoatAgain you are an unusual case then. And your parents were lucky to have grandparents to provide free childcare.

Did your parents also remain married? I wonder what your mother would have thought about the 50:50 split on divorce as she was the higher earner! Who did the washing, shopping for your clothes, taking you to the doctor, the parents evenings, housework?

I think someone’s opinion of fairness must also depend on how much of a salary difference there is or how much of a domestic imbalance.

@MissedTheBoatAgain
Sounds like your mother was fortunate that her health after birth enabled her to return to work so soon, she had a supportive partner, a job where shift work was an option and that she had family support from your grandparents.

Many many women aren't as lucky and when making statements about how women are affected by having children it's important to note when an individual's experience doesn't reflect the experience of the majority (although I'm not sure returning back to work after 6 weeks is desirable anyway).

It also is exceptionally lucky to be able to love close enough to work to not have a long commuting time, to work short enough shifts to have turnaround time and to never be expected to stay beyond the end of your shift because of a crisis.

Live close enough, not love!

Where does this idea that assets will always be split 50:50 in divorce.

Approx. 75:25 if favour of my ex who never worked in the 18 years I knew her. Logic was that due to lack of any formal qualifications and experience best she would ever get would be unskilled work on minimum wage which is what happened. Whereas I can earn in 1 day what ex earns per month. Hence assets split in favour of wife as weaker earner and that she would have to look after child for a further 8 years till he reached 18

I’ve not agreed a settlement yet but that is frightening. Whatever happened to hard work paying off?

And my ex husband got 59% not 50% - we negotiated rather than the court deciding as he wanted maintenance for life too and I wanted a clean break so the 59% was the compromise (he worked full time). My case of cousre is a lot more unfair than Missed as my hsuband chose not to have the children even a night a year (!!!!) so I had a huge amount of full time childcare to pay for, and of course rushing home to be with them as all resident parents do (and he paid no child support and still doesn't even now contribute to the university costs - youngest 2 are at university).

@Xenia 😪😪😪. Very similar to me. I’ll have to see how it turns out.

Xenia

How come your ex did not pay child maintenance? Was he unemployed?

If children are now at university they must be over 18 so maybe he is no longer liable to pay Child Maintenance? If he is working he should be chipping in towards university costs as not cheap.

The youngest were 4 when we divorced. The financial consent order says whoever they live with pay for them (but that I pay school and university costs whoever they live with). He then chose they would be with me all the time.

I could in law after 12 months have gone to the CMS (notwithstanding the court order) for nominal child support but decided it was not worth the effort. (I earn 10x what he does) I think that would have been 25% of his net self employed income by that stage.