Dividing assets - is there any way I can keep the house?

[anowlmostfoul]

I'm getting divorced, currently waiting for Decree Nisi. Doing all the work myself because I can't afford a solicitor. Soon we will have to agree on division of assets - I am worried about losing my home, is there any way I could keep it? Here are the facts:

Me: age 49, work part time, earn £8,500 per annum. I have ASD which makes full time work difficult.

Stbxh: age 59, works full time, earns 21,000 per annum. Will have contributed 21 years to university pension scheme upon retirement.

We have 2 children, 21 (at uni) and 17 (sixth form, final year)

House is worth £140, 000. £25, 000 still to pay on mortgage.

No savings. House is our only asset. He wants us to sell up and divide equity 50:50.

My DD, 17, wants to live with me. Very worried about the future. I want him to sign over the house to me in return for not claiming on his pension. Do you think this is achievable or totally unreasonable? I am a bit clueless as cannot afford legal advice and don't know who to ask. Would appreciate your opinions x

Splits of pension are often worked on the basis of opening negotiations with a position that the other spouse gets half of the value of the year's accrued during the marriage. Not whole pension contributions after marriage has ended.

He also needs to afford somewhere to live.

Younger DC is nearly adult. So I don't think there will be child-rearing reasons to give you favourable housing.

You need to get proper legal/financial advice. From what you have posted, your case sounds both weak and over-optimistic. But a proper assessment of all factors may lead to a diffe ent conclusion. It's an area where younreally cannot afford to do without professional advice.

I am happy to be corrected.
I thought that if I died in retirement (after I started drawing on my pension), then nobody (except my spouse) can get any part of the remaining amount in my pension.

If the chap has a pension which (on paper) says it's worth £100k, then posters here seem to be saying he has to pay OP £50k cash out of that, or something equivalent.

Even though he might die a year after retirement, and his heirs would get nothing... but OP would still get £50k? how does that work?

If I were the chap, I would DEFINITELY forfeit all future pension to OP and go for the house instead. Because the house is a realisable asset. He can make a residence for their kids.

If a member died in retirement with no spouse then a dependents pension would be payable to any children still in full time education. Also if he died in the first year of retirement as in the example below, then there is a guaranteed period of 5 years. This means his estate would receive pension payments in a lump sum for the remaining 4 years.
This is assuming he is in the USS scheme which is defined benefit.
Transfer values are high at the moment but interest rates are now rising which will lower them.

Even if the children are age 26 & 30 in full time education? That's not bad.

If no kids in FT education, and no spouse, if OP's STBxH retires at 65, dies at 71, he would get 6 yrs of pension. But OP is entitled to 50% of whatever the pension is worth (on paper only) today. OP gets paid 50% up front while STBxH may never get his own 50% of the pension. STBxH takes all the risk in that situation.

I suppose whoever gets the house takes all the risk if there is a terrible house-price crash.

My ex got a proportion of my whole pension including 10 years before we met.

Lljkk. if the pension is notionally worth 100k then an order is made as part of the divorce proceedings to split the pension. This doesn't mean that spouse is handed cash - a portion of the value of the fund is usually transferred into a personal pension of the spouse and they to take the benefits as a pension as and when they wish to under pensions legislation.

£1000-£1500 to pay to even get a pension evaluation - is that typical, what OP should expect?

Gawd divorce is expensive.

In my FSP, 12-13 yrs of contribs on a 21k salary meant getting in retirement about 3500/yr (£300/month). Amazing to me that could somehow be interpreted as > 70k value, or similar, since you'd have to live at least 20 yrs after retirement to actually get 70k back.

Ahhhh... X post with Loki. Transfer into another pension makes some sense, now.

Still can't believe my £300/month would be worth fighting over.... but I guess that's divorce for ya'. Friend going thru divorce has some equally weird demands (they are at least ignoring each other's pension).

lijkk This is what I got when I googled “annuity rates”. www.sharingpensions.co.uk/annuity_rates.htm

£300 per month is £3600 per year. If university The there would be escalation in the pension. So even assuming no guarantee (and I suspect there is guarantee) then £100k would buy you £3716 a year at retirement at 65.

Ie your rubbish old pension is worth about £97k!

Scary scary stuff.

My “middle manager worked for the council for 40 years” dad is technically a millionaire due to the value of his final salary pension.

It is possible he might agree to this but it would have to be done through a solicitor I think. It would take an expert to work out if this was a fair deal IMHO. So basically you are asking for £115,000 in exchange for not asking for a share of his pension. Which won't be much if his salary is around £21K a year.

Doesn't seem like a good deal for him on the face of it. You really need to reach a deal which is fair for both of you. Spousal maintenance is a thing of the past it seems except for mega earners. How can he find somewhere to live on his salary. He can't. Back to the drawing board I think.

But you cannot afford not to get advice.

Trying to combine pensions, I had a recent-ish quote that I would have to pay £9k for each yr I bought (on a final salary of £32k).

thus, My back of envelope calc is that each yr of OP's DH FSS pension is £6k value if he had to buy into it. So his 13 yrs x £6k, comes up as £78k value. Except university pensions switched to defined contributions last year so really just 12 yrs x £6k (=£72k), plus the extra 20 months which I bet he hasn't put more than £2k into. That's the weird part I can't grasp, every £1.2k he puts in becomes £6k in the valuation.

Not remotely close to the £250k someone else speculated.

I guess that means OP has £57k equity in the house, maybe £35k stake in his pension. minus the £4k or so the lawyers are going to get :(

After lots of agonising I've decided not to make any claim on his pension and to sell the house and take 50% of the equity. Anything else will just be difficult and unpleasant.

*Trying to combine pensions, I had a recent-ish quote that I would have to pay £9k for each yr I bought (on a final salary of £32k).

thus, My back of envelope calc is that each yr of OP's DH FSS pension is £6k value if he had to buy into it. So his 13 yrs x £6k, comes up as £78k value. Except university pensions switched to defined contributions last year so really just 12 yrs x £6k (=£72k), plus the extra 20 months which I bet he hasn't put more than £2k into. That's the weird part I can't grasp, every £1.2k he puts in becomes £6k in the valuation.*

It’s not weird at all - this is why FS pensions have been stopped - they are incredibly expensive for the employer.

Also are you 59? Because if not then the cost of providing you a pension is very different to the cost of providing the Op’s Husband a pension. (Expected growth vs Expected Inflation / salary increases to the power of years to go.)

Op - it is your decision. But please be aware that you are handing over well over 50% of the family assets to him as a result.

After lots of agonising I've decided not to make any claim on his pension and to sell the house and take 50% of the equity. Anything else will just be difficult and unpleasant.

That is deeply unfair to you. On the information you have posted so far, if he gets half the equity, you should have half his pension.

And you should be able to hold onto the house until your youngest has finished sixth form.

Please see a solicitor (which is what I am, btw).

I was 47 when I got that quote, Mumof2YK. I plan to work until at least 75, but I don't know what assumptions were made about my time to retirement.

I dunno, watching a friend go thru divorce I can see why people are loathe to see solicitors (seems like bare min. is £200/hour). When you need to stretch your limited assets as far as possible, the idea of frittering precious thousands away to solicitors is just gauling.