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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

Dividing assets - is there any way I can keep the house?

65 replies

anowlmostfoul · 01/12/2017 20:37

I'm getting divorced, currently waiting for Decree Nisi. Doing all the work myself because I can't afford a solicitor. Soon we will have to agree on division of assets - I am worried about losing my home, is there any way I could keep it? Here are the facts:

Me: age 49, work part time, earn £8,500 per annum. I have ASD which makes full time work difficult.

Stbxh: age 59, works full time, earns 21,000 per annum. Will have contributed 21 years to university pension scheme upon retirement.

We have 2 children, 21 (at uni) and 17 (sixth form, final year)

House is worth £140, 000. £25, 000 still to pay on mortgage.

No savings. House is our only asset. He wants us to sell up and divide equity 50:50.

My DD, 17, wants to live with me. Very worried about the future. I want him to sign over the house to me in return for not claiming on his pension. Do you think this is achievable or totally unreasonable? I am a bit clueless as cannot afford legal advice and don't know who to ask. Would appreciate your opinions x

OP posts:
flamingnoravera · 02/12/2017 09:01

The judge at my divorce hearing (I actually attended) said "I'm not supposed to give advice, but I do not want to see the request for decree absolute without a consent order in place, otherwise this man may return to take more of your assets" OP please get legal advice.

Original poster
anowlmostfoul · 02/12/2017 09:02

@noisykid But how am I being unreasonable? He earns twice my wage and will have a reasonable pension. I was the homemaker and carer for our children for all of our 21 year marriage.

I will less than £60,000 if the house is sold. I earn £8,500 per annum. How can I afford another house on that?

OP posts:
MattBerrysHair · 02/12/2017 09:02

Hi OP, I'm going through the same situation with my Stbxh. I also have ASD and a limited capacity for work. We have decided between ourselves that I will keep the house in return for not claiming on his pension or inheritance. His solicitor was trying to push him into various situations that would have left me in a very bad position but we've stuck firm to our agreement as our dc are both primary school age. He also earns 6 times more than me and has an inheritance in a trust fund, so he has easily managed to finance another house for himself and his new dp.

Your stbxh doesn't seem to be in such an advantageous position though. If it went to court your ASD and limited capacity for work would be taken into account, but you really need some legal advice in order to determine how. As pp's have said, get all the information you can and take advantage of the free 30 mission most solicitors will provide.

Achoopichu · 02/12/2017 09:03

Yes get legal advice. Ask about family mediation service to talk about assets it can work out cheaper. His pension value could be £100k so definitely worth doing

Original poster
anowlmostfoul · 02/12/2017 09:03

*I will receive less than £60,000 of the equity if the house is sold and divided 50:50

OP posts:
noisykid · 02/12/2017 09:06

anowlmostfoul

He is a few years from retirement. So will have only £9000 a year to love on the same as you earn plus you will get disability.

You will be better off with your wage and benefits and you want to keep the whole house and force him to rent when you could sell and both downsize and get a house each.

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 02/12/2017 09:06

Pension will be worth a lot. Quite probably more than the house.

Pension sharing on divorce came in in 2001. It isn’t exactly a new thing and yet people (men!) constantly seem surprised by the fact that the have to share the most valuable asset from the marriage.

Myreputation · 02/12/2017 09:09

Getting him off the mortgage and into your name only is not straight forward. You would have to prove to the mortgage company that you could afford the repayments on your own salary. Why don't you enquire about what that would entail?

Tbh I don't see how you could do that unless he is happy for his name to stay on the mortgage which is unlikely as he wants to sell up.

Not nice but the reality of divorce I'm afraid and I have just been through it myself ie lost family home despite having two small dc as I couldn't afford to buy him out.

Original poster
anowlmostfoul · 02/12/2017 09:14

@anoisykid I don't claim any benefits at all....

I live in North Wales but even here I don't think I could buy a house for only £60,000 if the house is sold... I phoned a mortgage advisor who said the most anyone would lend me is about £20,000

OP posts:
Melony6 · 02/12/2017 09:20

You need professional advice.
but if you get 60,000 each selling the house. You need to find a way of paying him his 60,000.
Half of what his pension is worth must be a few 10s of thousands surely. (thinking that 9,000 pa over say 15 years is 135,000 I think). I don't see why he wouldn't accept his 60,000 as a lump sum (your share of pension) plus x amount a month.
Perhaps you could get mortgage extended over a longer time. Perhaps they won't even let you take it on yourself. You need to start phoning people to find out the facts.
Perhaps you could visit CAB - they can help with financial stuff usually.

noisykid · 02/12/2017 09:25

anowlmostfoul

But you can once you are single so with your wage and disability you will have more a year wage than your ex pension per year but want him to rent while you take all the house.

Be reasonable and spilt it 50/50 and each of you downsize.

Retepetite1 · 02/12/2017 09:42

Also going through this and I've just had to leave my home...some thoughts:

  1. find out if you can get new mortgage on your salary & how much - go see a broker.
  2. visit csa website and find out what you should get in child maintenance
  3. get legal advice. There is a very good chance a judge won't approve your financial order anyway if you are not represented.
  4. get legal advice ! Most solicitors will give you an initial consultation free. Explain you just want to pay for advice and financial order & you are happy to do mediation with ex & court documents yourself. Solicitors deal with all sorts they will understand.
  5. try to be fair to your ex too. the priorities are: house kids, then house parents (equally), for that you both need ready cash - pension cash isn't accessible, but 50/50 isn't reasonable either. You have a good case for spousal maintenance for a few years, but you should factor in work more hours, unless you can prove medically that you can't.

I was desperately upset to leave my home of 14 yrs, but over time I realised it was going to be a heavy financial burden on my own. We moved and everything is still ok. I lost my forever house, but I just have to make a new one!
Home is where your stuff is. The building isn't so important in the end. It's hard I know but make plans for the future you want and I promise it does help.

Also last thought: Divorce...it's a negotiation - like a business deal, decide what's imporant to you but be flexible. But you also have to tough it out. I wish you all the luck in the world.

HouseworkIsAPain · 02/12/2017 10:31

Noisy what about when OP retires? She will be in a far worse position that her ex at the point he retired. Your post implies everything at 50:50 is fair when it really isn’t. I could see it being fairer if they, as a couple, had contributed to a pension for OP that was likely to giveback the same return but they have not.

ferrier · 02/12/2017 10:34

Noisy - your solution is hugely unreasonable to op.

drquin · 02/12/2017 11:12

I know it's the weekend, but seriously get professional advice before you wind yourself up too much more about may or may not happen.

For all the good advice here, your situation is never identical to anyone else's. There's so many variables. Some options may be more feasible or palatable to you, that aren't to me. But until you nail down facts, numbers and specifics, it's all just unknown.

In general, keeping a whole house in favour of a share of pension is something that's perfectly reasonable to do. But will completely depend on the other assets (mainly pension it sounds) to be shared. Plus any child and / or spousal support.
Then it's a whole other question as to whether you could actually afford to run the house ..... even if keeping it turned out to be a reasonable split of assets. That's why we could all speculate for ever .... seriously, get professional advice so you work out the starting point properly. If you choose to negotiate on the starting point, fair enough.

pinkhorse · 02/12/2017 11:20

You need to get a CETV on his pension. This is what I do for a living. I see so many divorce cases. He isn't on a very high salary though and his pension isn't that high either

lljkk · 02/12/2017 12:27

Rightmove says there are lots of 2 bed flats in North Wales for less than 100k, less than 60k even.

On that salary, after 13 yrs contributions, I doubt the cash value of his pension is over £40k. Think of it as £100/month for last 13 yrs (7% of his takehome). So that would add up to £15600 if no growth in the pension. I'm baffled how someone came up with an estimate of £250k... did I miss a post by OP where she admits his real salary is about £80k/yr, or he's actually been contributing 35 yrs already?

Lokisglowstickofdestiny · 02/12/2017 12:34

CETVs are high at the moment as schemes are trying to members out. I have seen some quoted at up to 40 times the annual pension, so get a valuation on his pension!

lljkk · 02/12/2017 12:50

anowl, if you have a copy of his payslip, how much was one of his recent pension contributions?

AJPTaylor · 02/12/2017 13:00

But surely so close to retirement age for h it would be more equitable to divide the equity and share the pension at retirement. My friend took the equity in exchange for no pension rights but they were in their early 40s so 25 plus years to play with. If a family home can be bought for 140k then surely a 1 or 2 bed flat can be bought for 70? The children are adults or will be at point of divorce.

Lokisglowstickofdestiny · 02/12/2017 13:04

lljkk it looks like he is in a final salary scheme, so to calculate the value the scheme actuaries look at the pension he will get and multiple it by a factor (it's a bit more complicated than that but that's the jist of it)it's not based on how much a fund grows by in a defined contribution scheme. As I said transfer values are generous at the moment, if interest rates keep rising they will drop so I'd get a transfer value on his pension as part of the overall assessment of assets asap.

lljkk · 02/12/2017 13:30

How can a value on paper be worth anything, unless it's cold hard cash he can get his hands on to spend as he likes or for OP to claim a share of - is that what the transfer value actually means?

ArbitraryName · 02/12/2017 13:47

The pension is a university pension scheme of some kind. If he’s support staff, it might be the LGPS. In which case he’ll have been paying in his percentage (7%ish?) and his employer will be paying 14-18% in too. The other schemes are similar (I pay in 8% and my employer 18%).

So the amount in the pension pot may well exceed the value of the house and he might actually owe you money in a 50:50 division of assets scenario.

He can request a valuation from the pension scheme very easily.

CleverKnot · 02/12/2017 14:01

Universities had FSS but we all were forced to move to defined benefits a few yrs ago, maybe sooner for non-academic staff.

My typical salary has been similar to OP's DH. My university pension valuation on paper, iirc, is around £90k, but only worth something shockingly small, maybe £4k a yr in actual retirement income. That £90k isn't real money to me in any way. Barring my death before retirement or a spouse, I don't see how I could share it with someone else. I asked about transferring another pension over, and was quoted something like £50k to buy 17 months of service.

ArbitraryName · 02/12/2017 14:22

If you’ve got £90k in a pot for £4K a year. Then a pension of £9k a year will be based on a significantly larger pot.

In this situation, it’s about dividing assets. So if the marital assets are a house with £115k of equity in it and a pension pot valued at £200k (or more) then that’s what’s supposed to be divided. I doubt that the OP should be considering paying anything to her STBEH. In fact, she’d be being very nice by saying that she’d settle for the house (in its entirety) and letting him keep the whole pension.

The OP is not being unreasonable to want her fair share of the marital assets. They will both be poorer for having divorced but that’s just how it is.

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