On the cusp of separation

[Verso]

I have my half-hour free legal consultation on Thursday to talk about separation. I am not yet sure how I feel about divorce. My (D)H has been manipulative for years, but it was only a blatant lie about something fundamental at the weekend that made me wake up.

Fundamental. Financial. Potentially fraudulent. Illegal.

I am still in shock and he just doesn't get it. He seems to think life is a game, somehow.

This realisation has also made all the other emotional and sexual abuse that I've put up with really really obvious. It's appalling, really, and I've just let it go on because of some weird sense of "duty" and the fear of losing my girls.

So a big dose of reality is in order. Facts. Figures. Probabilities rather than vague speculation. I hope someone is out there who can offer words of wisdom. If you know of other agencies who might be able to help me (ie not just the CAB and solicitor) do please let me know.

Morning verso
How's it going? After your last post I didn't know what to say, God only knows what that man has done, and it left me feeling worried for you as abuse of any kind especially so much so it's to be reported to the police is unthinkable to inflict especially on someone you love.
Did you go give your statment? More importantly has he been pulled in for it?
It's hard to know what else to say as I have all sorts of awful concerns about what exactly you are meaning so I do hope the police gave you the comfort and guidance you needed and are taking swift action to prevent you suffering anymore.
As my story read similar verso I appreciate the difficulties in taking that step especially so if it doesn't go as you'de have hoped it would, for me it left me thinking why did I bother? Did it help? Because no it didn't they didn't do what any normal law abiding citizen would expect but quite the opposite infact which in turn has left the Fire fueling ever since.

Are you safe? I mean I hope they advised you how you can keep at arms length from him so once they had sprung any surprise on him he wasn't able to seek any form of retaliation.
Always difficult if you share a home, I hope they have removed him from your property and you and your girls are in a less hostile predicament were you can take time to breath think and comfort one another.
I appreciate also it's hard to be any more specific during our discussions incase your posts are somehow recognised as I wouldn't want that your safety is paramount but if you wish to add anything further, get anything off your chest, scream, shout, anything you can always inbox me, I think you can anyway then I can give you my email. It sometimes helps to off load your worrys a problem shared is a problem halved etc... And I really don't mind.

I just pray your ok and this is the beginning of the end of the troubles you have suffered.

I hope to hear that you are alright and that the right action is now being taken to support you.
Do let me know how you are
Take care x

Pleased to see you've had so much support offline and also from Pandamanda3. I could relate to your experience as my STBXH has also been very manipulative over the years. It's shocking how we allow ourselves to overlook abuse and make excuses for so long. It's also very early stages for me and I worry that he'll use my busy career, health problem and business trips as weapons against me, because he's angry that I'm leaving him (asking him to leave). I hope you're okay after your last post. Hang in there and know that you deserve so much more. I'm looking forward to making home "home" for me and my children, when (hopefully) he moves out. Try imagining that and allow yourself to dream of a better tomorrow x

Hi CaptainM. I'm so sorry to hear all these similar stories on here (although it helps and makes me feel less alone).

I flip-flopped over the weekend: this all seems so surreal and weird. Things have changed so quickly. It would be so easy to pretend it's all ok and go back to how things were for a quiet life. But no.

And so I find myself feeling bad about this - and then he tells me he's been looking at rooms in shared flats for ME, or bedsits. Single rooms. Nowhere for the girls to stay with me when they visit. Horrible.

The statement sounds very dramatic (and I was quite scared to do it) but it was to draw a proper line. By recording the abuse officially, it means I have recourse to the police should anything ever ever happen again. It's more around harassment than anything - but you have to prove a pattern of behaviour. Most of the behaviour I have records for is from before the new Coercive Control legislation came in force.

They were very kind and straightforward to deal with - and thankfully they didn't feel they needed to arrest and interview my STBXH. I was very scared that might happen (but why scared? if it needed to happen then it was right, yes?)

All very odd. My friends, and my Mum, have been brilliant. My Mum is mainly staying out of it but is there should I need her.

Thank you, all of you, for posting on this thread. It really helps.

Woke very early this morning, panicking about being forced to pay him maintenance while he stays in the house with the girls, their clothes falling apart because he doesn't do mending and the house gradually sinking into disrepair. Me in a mouldy bedsit, living on lentils.

I have a very overactive imagination . But I guess I have to be realistic - and this IS a possibility.

Hey verso
Hold up hun, why are you contemplating moving out? Why are you even contemplating that he will get the girls?
No no no, nobody can rule that those girls would be better placed with him!
My goodness after your history of abuse don't even let him have that enter your mind lively.
Your there mum and a good mum at that. You are thinking of them as well as yourself in taking this huge step to freedom. So why on earth he would have you think you will be the one to move out. Saying he's looking at bed sits the evil
Man.

He is unfit to care for your girls but you on the other hand have nurtured them cared for and provided for them all along.
Please tell me you are not going to move out.
They stay with you he moves out!
As long as he has somewhere to go how can he complain?

Oh im worried now you will be rail roadsd out by him?

Do reply thinking of you,
Take some deep breaths you have our support and I'll always reply with support and a friendly ear should you need!
X x x be strong

Panda you're so sweet! Please don't worry. My lawyer said the thing I absolutely MUST NOT DO is move out. So I'm staying. I'm just saying he keeps assuming I will be the one forced to move out by the Judge. It plays on my mind and worries me (which I think is why he says it).

I've been very clear with him today. This is the end of the road for me and I will be petitioning for divorce. He has finally got the message and says he's "devastated". I feel pretty rubbish too - but then I've been feeling rubbish for years if I'm honest!

Just a thought would you not now consider the occupation order and issue him with a 7 day notice to quit?

I know some say it's seen as a draconian thing to do, however as long as he has family parents, brother sister etc... To go to or that you know will house him then he can't argue as you are trying to ensure a safe environment for you and your girls.
you are fully within your right to issue that if the situation is unbearable at home and he won't be able to say no! You can also approach the court without his knowledge for an emergency order which can be enforced by the police, providing the judge see's fit once you present your reasons/evidence this can be done.
A later date Is then set for a hearing.
This allows you to free yourself of the situation your in as an emergency without waiting 7 days for him to voluntarily leave.
As if he said no im staying then you need to go to a hearing and wait for that date to come to ask the judge to force him, this is obviously uncomfortable being in the same house as him.

And as in my case can escalate the situation & then like I if it gets to point break, you end up having to call the police.

Just as I say a thought, but it's hard 'as im unsure what you have done to date, have you already asked him to go? We're are you up to etc?
As I understood it and I may have missed a bit but I thought he just knew you were concerned about the relationship and he believed you would be attending counselling to try and resolve it!

Speak soon hun chin up keep strong.

Ahhhh verso I see our posts must have overlapped, wow so yes I understand he knows now. Well no you do not move out absolutly right.
Don't listen to him telling you all that rubbish.
No judge is going to tell you to leave your girls no way.

Just be strong now and ask him to leave, also be prepared for him to play on you at your emotions etc.. In order to try & weaken you they are all the same, you hear so many similaritys with caricters like there's the patterns are always the same!
You will feel rubbish lovely but it won't last forever I promise you are going to have a beautiful happy life you just have to be strong now take each day as it comes baby steps.

We're all behind you, you can do it!
I know you can x x x

You're most certainly not alone, Verso! I also have these panics and worry that he'll find a way to screw me over.It's all.very passive aggressive with him - one minute he's being really mean, the next he's playing sad victim. As you said, none of this is new. It's just more in the spotlight. He's refusing to move out so I'm having to live with him, at least for now. I'm hoping only for a few weeks. Will look into an occupation order but really trying to avoid too much drama. I just want my home to myself and children, and some peace. A glass of wine with dinner and an early night seem to be helping. Real escapism! I need to keep sane as have a manic work schedule and clearly need to hold on to my job/sanity! Hang in there x

Good morning captainM gosh another poor victim, would believe it would you, why are they so mean? I know not all are the same but when you've experienced it and hear so many dreadful story's it kind of has your guard permanently up.

You should look at the occupation order especially if he refuses to leave, I understand how difficult it is to live with somebody when they know it's over but refuse to leave.
Especially with aggressiveness on top it is a fuel for the flame.
It's hard for our dc too & as a mum you do worry, but if it's any help to any of you lady's once my ex had left I thought my boys would hate me, the younger one had difficulty coping for a while but that was more about what he'd been like what he'd done etc.. That he struggled to come to terms with. But after they said mum life's so much better now and we are actually happy he's gone. No more walking on egg shell's no more listening to him slam around and shout.

No more seeing me cry or trying to make excuses, they always felt bad they said as they wanted to tell him to stop the nastiness and to treat me better but they were too scared. Hearing this was awful made me see how hard it is for them to listen too and I wish Id done it sooner.
But life's better tough as it is a big adjustment paying everything on one income but better calmer happier.

So you too will find that peace in your life again soon and it makes it easier to cope with the actual divorce process as you can think and not have to be in a horrible environent.

I'm thinking of you both verso & u and pray it gets delbt with soon for you
X x x

Aww...thanks, Pandamanda. My worry is that my dcs are still very young. He is fighting for a 50/50 access, even though I don't know where he plans to live with them. He quit his job a couple of years ago and claims to be broke, as a way to push me to sell our jointly owned property. He has other properties but refuses to touch them - really very selfish and seems determined to screw me over, even if at the expense of dc. Unfortunately mediation hasn't helped so it's bound to be messy:(

Hey captainM
My solicitor said to me that the court/ judge will always in 99% of cases favour the mum as she has immediate birth rights upon separation. So I doubt he could force you to sell especially with a portfolio of property's broke or not!
They aren't interested in him or you really as mad as that sounds but the children first off, are priority.
He probably figured if he did 50/50 he won't pay maintenance how not soft are they!

Anyway he's got to house himself and soon because it is affecting you and ultimately your children so Id tell him to go or threaten police.
Make sure you have copies of all propertys bank accounts etc.. As you will need them. The fact he quit his job won't look good either as you can play on his laziness and how you've been forced to care for him it's financial abuse too.
The way it reflects to me Id say you've a good case. They will expect him to sell a property available to him to house himself
They won't take your main home to sell as your children are there.
If I can help with advise at any stage as you go do post me im not legally qualified but been there and learnt lessons. I would hate anyone to go through what I have.
£17,000 of useless rubbish & court hearings.
Hope this mKes you feel bit better don't worry & stay strong! X x

I've been married for 29 years. The last 10 have steadily gone down hill. We have 2 teenage children. I have always been very proactive in my marriage trying hard to keep things on track with little or no effort from my husband. He's admitted that he has with drawn from the marriage and has no interest in sex. To me sex is a very important part of being in a close and loving relationship, which I have always told him. Over the years I have suspected that he may have been unfaithfully but have never found any evidence to back up my suspicions. Recently I found a spare mobile as I picked it up from a charger in our bedroom it flashed a text message from a woman on Tinder. I confronted him immediately - he snatch the phone from me and stamped on it and destroyed the sim. He told me he was just mucking around with his friend (who is single) and nothing had gone on it was just banter. He was very sorry and we had a big heart to heart and he told me he loved me and didn't want our marriage to end. He went to counselling to try and deal with why he can't express his feeling and things got a tiny bit better but then he stopped going. He's started again but things are worse then ever. I have hung on because I don't want to destroy my kids or our families- but I'm now feeling that at 49 I want to be with someone who wants to be with me, who's fun. My life is miserable and this makes me angry which isn't good for the kids. I need some advice. If we divorce will I fair better while the kids are still living with me. Would I get a better financial settlement with dependent children? If I wait until they are 18 will I come off worse? How are assets split? Can I remain in our martial home? I don't work as it was agreed that I would stay at home to support the kids. I have sacrificed my career and earning potential to support him and the children

Hi Seekinghappiness

You'd be best starting a thread of your own. Try Relationships as there's more traffic and experience of others.

Sorry new to this, how do I start a thread?

At the top of the thread, under "topics", there's "Start a new thread". Click on that and you're away!

Hi Seekinghappiness,

Bless you another who's in a dreadful situation, its horrible to hear so many people in the same boat.
I too had a long relationship married 18 years last 3 were appalling, but i thought id answer and say hi! and tell you your not alone, and answer your post.

You are right you do deserve to be in a relationship were you are loved as much as you love and after 29 years you kind of expect that anyway.

Im not a solicitor by no mean's but iv been there so can tell you from my experience.
You mention the children, I'm afraid in my experience you can't prevent nor predict what the fall out on them may be, you just have to be there for them when they fall. you at the same time cannot put of ending your misery for them as much as you don't want to hurt them it does more damage letting them be in a hostile environment.
My dc are 17 & 21 both of them reacted differently and that was another story entirely as my youngest really became angry & ended up having counselling which has helped him no end, whilst the eldest bottled it all up for over a year then blew. It is hard but as a mum you will do right by them and support them and they will support you.
I found we have all been so supportive of each other since my separation and they have seen why i divorced him in the first place because of his ongoing behaviour , they actually think its better now he's gone.

You are right if you are going to do it then you are clearly in a better position if your children are still dependant.
You say you do not work as your a full-time house wife, (btw, this is work hard bloody work lol) but your husband will still need to support you & the children until they are both out of education.
Either by way of spousal maintenance, csa, mortgage etc.. each case is obviously different dependant on your financial predicament of course but he can't simply say no to helping you because you are divorcing.

Id ensure you are aware of all bank accounts, details of them etc.. should you need them in the future.

As far as your home is concerned the first rule the court look at is the children they must be priority so it is doubtful you would be made to move with dependant children not straight away and you would need to be allowed time to re-train get into work etc.. this is all looked at as fair and it takes time to do so. so it may be that you are able to stay there until a said time then you would be asked to sell the property.
They look at assets and try to make sure two people can be housed from the one pot if you like, my husband hide assets and did all sorts of awful things, it is easy to get tied up into so much in divorce and before you know it your bill is huge.
You wouldn't be eligable for legal aid unless god forbid you were in a domestic violence situation, i was but still did not qualify for assistance and in all it cost me £17,500 so it is always best if you can mediate and keep it civil so you can form some sort of agreement together.
But is often the case it at some point gets difficult and then mediation is not possible.
I know it must be awful for you now as you will have so many what if & butts, so many question's whizzing around your head.
But try to be strong focus on the important things if you have decided to separate make sure as i say you have everything you need, get advise too.
If you can't afford a solicitor then try citizens advise, or google divorce there are loads of sites up there.
Don't let him walk all over you, you don't deserve it. After all that time together and your 2 beautiful children, you deserve more!

It is not much to ask to be happy and you will, but you ned to be strong and keep a level head, my advise is stick to the relevant stuff such as finances and don't get swept in to the he said she said silly arguments that occur as they cost. My husband ran up the bill so much he was actually warned for doing it.

Unfortunatly no judge will look at past behaviour unless it they say is so bad it can't be ignored, and i found a lot of my husbands deceit which id proved got ignored by the court as they just want a resolution so any unfaithfulness is not relevant they say. Sad but true.

I hope iv been some help there are so many thing's i could say but don't want to go on so if you do have any more question's or need a gab a cuber ear ha! do pop on.

Good luck to you i hope which ever direction you choose it all works out for the best.

x x x

Oh & i also just wanted to say hi to verso & captain m are you lady's ok hows it all going? x

panda, I've been following this thread from the first post and have found your support and advice incredibly helpful. I am also 49, married for 24 years, 2 DD's age 17 & 15. My H is verbally aggressive and abusive, controlling and manipulative but of course he thinks he is a great guy. I finally called it a day a 2/3 months ago and things have got really bad. He is trying his best to break me, he thinks I am mentally unstable and wants me to be assessed by a psychiatrist, he has also tried to get my oldest assessed. He is a very clever man and it concerns me greatly that people will believe him. I should say that there is no way he will leave the house. I am so on edge now that I am giving serious thought to leaving the house. I had a melt down at the weekend, lots of tears. I only want two things. Firstly, I don't want to be anywhere near him and secondly, I want to have a home with my girls. You give me hope but it's going to be a real struggle.

Jaffa cakes mum- sweet heart that's dreadful, absolutly dreadful do not let him wear you down stand strong. Who said you can't get him out the house? Because you do not in anyway need to be subjected to that in your own home, and you can have him removed.
It seems like the hardest most unthinkable thing to do calling the police but please don't be scared you are not on this planet to be treated like that. Again as Iv said before definatly not buy the man you are married too.
Can you not issue an occupation order you know 7 day notice & injunction? Have you had advise? Maybe you could ask about this.
I know what you mean when you say after announcing you've caled it a day that the situation gets worse as it does.
My situation had me near breaking point but you have to stand strong I can't tell you that enough.
He will know that he would likely be asked to leave hence he's trying to break you to go first. All the accusations of you being mentally ill are a game he's trying his luck with anything.

He can't order your assessed the crazy man, it is not you it is him. It's pure and simple mental abuse!

What did he have your dv assessed for? Why if you don't mind me asking?
My ex- tried to say im crazy went to my gp, family friends my gp told him straight fortunately she was great and I had confided in her previously as part of my trouble was he was forcing me to work 12 hrs 7 days a week sick, he wouldn't let up we owned a business and I suffer pretty badly with my health. I took a turn for the worse and he would not give me time out to recover and so I went and went until I couldn't no more. And I told him I quit in a heap exhausted 6 stone suffering malnutrition as I have a digestive absorption disorder and I was incredibly anemic.
After I quit he just turned on me like you wouldn't believe and that night spelt the end of my marriage as he for the next 3 years tormented me so bad that in the end I found the strength to apply for divorce.
I was stupid, I put it off & off 'he will change, it's me, I should be a better wife oh I had said every excuse under the sun.
It's only now 2 years after he's gone im starting to say to myself no it's not you! It was all him. He killed my self confidence, my ability to be me. And as I say I'm still relating that damage now after all this time.

You really must not be like me, don't let him do it.
Do you have family near for support?

I'm glad it's helped following my rants ha! I just don't want anybody to suffer what I have and I swore blind if I ever cud tell people in my situation it's ok don't become trapped in a horrible relationship then I would. I hate and I mean hate to hear anybody has to be a victim it's so so wrong.

You are not crazy, it is not you, it's him, get him out you stay put & show him you will not be walked over 'let him fester whilst you live a happy life' because you will it's round the corner you'll see!
Thinking of you x

Thanks for checking on me, Pandamanda3. It's been an awful couple of days and I finally met my solicitor today. I'm desperate to get him out of the house (rented) as his attitude towards me and his general cagey behaviour (he's installed a lock on his home office door and lives there. Neither me nor the children are allowed access - not even to look) is making dcs very anxious. My 6yo is very weepy and I've been forced to tell them daddy and I are having problems (because stbxh refused to tell them together) just to explain his recent behaviour towards me and why he's moved to the "locked room". What's frustrating is that when he threatened to no longer pay our rent a couple of months ago, he said he was moving out and dcs & I will be forced to move too, I decided to take on the tenancy for 6 months, just to give dcs some stability whilst they deal with the news their parents are getting divorced. We met with the landlord and signed tenancy over to me, so I now have a new agreement. We also agreed a move out date for him, but when the date came, he changed his mind and now won't budge. I now have the additional cost of paying the rent and he's living rent free and making my home a complete misery

Hi captainM
Oh gosh what goes through there tiny minds at all? They always need to make things worse than needs be.
So you met the landlord and swapped the tenancy to just you? Well can you not now call the police to get him out as its in your name only? Or reach out to your landlord and see if he can support his removal as technically once your names on that tenancy & your paying its your house, not his. You've kids and your their mum so he's going to be fighting a loosing battle thinking you'll need to move.
I'm sure my solicitor said to me if it were rented it's easier to get him shifted.
Your poor little one is picking up the vibes, it will settle down, of course anybody in this predicament would be uncomfortable especially being so young. He is selfish that's for sure carrying on like that, not letting them even just look to put their minds at rest as to what's begind the door.
No wonder your stressed out.
Plus you don't know what he's filling their heads with so that & the overall vibe will be unsettling. It does get better love I know you can't see it now but it does. You just keep being the great mum you are and the dc will take comfort from that and young or not he is spoiling it for himself because they will see his behaviour isn't right and he will loose them.

But if your paying rent then Id say you have every right to shift him, your landlord can even come & remove the lock and him as its his house let to you so you've back up in your case. Once you say & have his back up out surely he's no choice.

At least you'll be away from him then and can start calming things down building your strength up.

I'll see what I can find out a friend of mine rents propertys so I'll see if we can find an answer.
Then he can go carry on his nasty little man act on his bloody own.

Be strong & keep us in loop, thinking of you & don't let him see he's got you stressed try try put on front to let him no you won't be trodden on.

I'll let you know if I dig up any tricks & tips x

Thank you so much for your support, Pandamanda3. It's a tricky one because even though it's all been transferred to my name, he may still have occupancy rights as it's his matrimonial name. Working on finding out. Hard as it's an unusual case. I'm better off getting the landlord to kick him out, I think...or fast-tracking the divorce. The latter is a pain as he moved out the filing cabinet that has all our legal documents and is refusing to give me our marriage certificate. We go married abroad so I've requested another original copy and waiting for that to arrive. Any tios/tricks definitely appreciated! Thanks again x