ExH won't stop hitting children as 'punishment'

[Rosyleigh]

He seems to think its an acceptable form of punishment. One which I absolutely am against and have told him personally via email and through a solicitors letter.

I am the residential parent and I have never hit the children, he sees them every other weekend and consistently hits them (around the head, and also apparently this weekend kicked, with shoes on!) I have pulled him up on this before and even had a solicitors letter go to him regarding the matter (which back and forth, cost me £1000!!). But he just slips back into this behaviour.

How do I stop this?? This weekend he apparently showed the children an article online to tell them that it was 'legal' for him to hit them as 'a reasonable form of punishment' and then went on to hit and kick (mainly DS - 9) 3 times over the course of 2 days.

Do I stop contact, point blank?

He was EA towards me in the marriage and I have NC, only curt emails if absolutely necessary.

I don't know the best course of action, please can someone advise what to do for the best?

In this situation, I would simply stop all contact immediately and contact SS again.

Emma our arrangements for the children, although it was communicated through solicitors is not agreed or laid down by a court, so it is 'informal'.

Thanks AF I'll give that a go.

These people might be able to help - Children's Legal Advice Centre. They were very helpful to me when I used them for a very different issue.

www.bab.org.uk/downloads/Smacking_Leaflet.pdf

Smacking children in the head is illegal in Scotland, so don't know if that helps you or not. Will keep looking.

This website seems to suggest that a smack on the head is unacceptable, at least according to their interpretation of the law:

www3.hants.gov.uk/chastisement-and-punishment

I've also found a Met police briefing powerpoint which states that strikes to the head/face are never reasonable punishment.

If the arrangements are informal that's good, it means you can stop contact without breaching any legal agreement.

My god, of course you stop contact. WTH????

Exposing children to pornography is sexual abuse. Speak to SS about that too.

If you have no child arrangement order already in place, you will be doing nothing illegal by stopping all contact. Alternatively, you could ask him to arrange for contact to take place in a semi-supervised contact centre (google NACCC for details) - which is probably what the court would order anyway.

You should do whatever you honestly think is best for the children. It might be worth talking to Social Services? (they take this sort of thing quite seriously).

He will need to take you to court if he wants to see the children on 'his' terms. This will trigger a Section 7 report from Cafcass, and you will be given the opportunity to talk about your concerns. Cafcass will probably also talk to the children.

I'm sorry this is happening... must be so hard for you all...

Thank you all so much opioneers emma AF and FNF really helpful information here and I will ring around tomorrow and see what best course of action is.

What would happen if you told your dc to actually call the police if he was hitting them? Do either of them have phones with cameras in that they could use to video what was going on covertly?

Obviously you wouldn't want them to do that if it escalated the problem but it might be worth checking that they do know how to call the police, what address to give, what happens when they make the call, what to say and so on. Also you want to give them permission to call them if they ever feel they are in danger with their dad or if they've been hit and they're scared by him. It can be a scary thing to decide to call the police, especially if you don't know what's going on. If you're a child you might think that you need an adult to do it, or that they won't believe you only the grown ups or whatever. By making sure they know exactly what to do and when to do it and that there won't be any consequences to them if they ring the police in these circumstances (regardless of what their dad might say to stop them from doing this) you'll be empowering them to be brave and make the call should they need to.

It might also be worth talking to his local police force (or your local domestic violence unit and seeing if they can co-ordinate if they're different) and seeing if you can register something against his address to show that he has form for hitting his dc (in the way that victims of domestic abuse can get it registered against their address so that if they call in the police already know it's a serious call - then if the dc do call, they will know that he has form for this rather than just being a he said - kids said situation

Talk to the police. Smacking round the head, or kicking (especially with shoes) sounds well past "reasonable chastisement" to me, but anyway, they can advise and the worst that could happen is that they're not particularly interested - either way you've nothing to lose (just as long as you don't let him know about it).

But I would also stop contact entirely. If you are having to consider giving your children instructions on how to call the police while there, it means you know you are sending them to an unsafe environment - so surely that means they shouldn't have to go anyway.

I am a retired SW/Mgr with some 30 years experience all in Children's Services. I think you should stop contact and tell him why. I wonder why he is doing this - almost sounds like he is exerting his authority - can't imagine your 9 year old is misbehaving. Don't bother with solicitor's letters - they aren't worth the paper they're written on and cost a fortune as you've found out.

The reason you didn't get much help from Children's Services is because they are totally overwhelmed with work and are having trouble undertaking statutory work that will end up in court. This is on a national basis and there is a huge problem with recruitment and retention of SWs. I blame this govt who have demanded massive savings, so budgets are utterly depleted and so that's going to affect service delivery.

If there is no Child Arrangement Order (CAO) then you won't be breaking any Order by stopping contact. He would have to apply to the Family Court for contact to be resumed. There is no legal aid available so he would have to represent himself. You would both have to have mediation to prevent a court hearing. As FNF said a social worker from CAFCASS (Child & Family Court Advisory Service) would be appointed by the court to investigate the circumstances and make a recommendation. I hate to say this but CAFCASS SWs are the same as LA SWs - struggling with unmanageable case loads so it would only be a brief report. I think probably your ex would get contact restored with an undertaking that he doesn't hit the children again.

If there is no court order you can just stop contact.
Would the dc tell teacher ? You could speak to safeguarding teacher at their school.

Do the dc want to go but only if he stops hitting ? Are they scared to not go ?

You need to tell someone and have it recorded.

why am I the only one to pick up on the fact (apart from OP) he is exposing the dc to pornography ?

Can't speak for everyone else, but I missed that in the updates (it wasn't in the OP) - but agreed, that is another strong reason to stop contact; and given the 3 separate concerns Rosy now has (the hitting, pornography and poor supervision) SS certainly ought to support her on this, and have no excuse not to IMO.

What do we have to say to prove to you that we "picked up" on it, AF?! I read and acknowledged it. I understand that OP had already reported it to social services. Tbh it doesn't change the advice I and others have already been giving, which is to stop all unsupervised contact immediately, report to the police, social services and/or NSPCC, and get legal advice.

You are well within your legal rights to stop access (and I would if I were you - I feel for you hugely as I know how horrible it can be feeling that legally you have to send your children somewhere that you don't feel they are safe).

He would have to take you to court to reinstate contact, and with all the unfit you've given I would be hugely surprised if he was awarded anything further than supervised contact (which he could do at a contact centre - you wouldn't have to see him).

If they were to award him unsupervised access then I would ignore it. I know there's been lots of talk in the press about punishing women who withhold access to the dad against the courts wishes but personally I know of many cases where the women have (mostly for complete non-reasons, nothing like the perfectly valid reasons you would have) and all that happens is the dad is told he has to go back to court to get another agreement (which still seems not to be enforced).

You are only acting to keep your children safe. And the courts and CAFCASS are only interested in what's best for the child. No judge in their right mind would demand a child be placed somewhere if there's proof they are not safe and are being exposed to pornography. Keep a log of all the incidents in case you need it.

Big hugs

Just wanting to make sure that Op can be completely sure the verdict is unanimous that she should stop contact immediately.

Thanks everyone. I've rang the NSPCC and they've advised I speak to the children's Law centre which I will tomorrow. They said I would need to go to court to get contact changed to 'supervised' and if they escalated this to child services he'd be invited to attend a 'parenting course' . The problem I have is that the children have specifically asked me that I do not involve social services, they said that supervised contact in a centre sounds awful, they would not want that and they do want to continue with having unsupervised contact with their dad. They just want his 'discipline methods' to change. Regarding the pornography, DD caught him watching some online while he thought the children were playing alone outside, he quickly shut down the laptop when they walked in, but DD saw it all the same and it begs the question why not wait until the kids are in bed if you must watch it? There have been no more incidents of this nature since he was pulled up on it 4 months ago by my solicitor. The 'discipline' issue however, clearly still remains.

Also what do we think about 3 children 10.5, 9 (my DCs) and 8 (x's GF's DC) left to play alone in a public play area that backs on to the house, whilst XH and GF are in the house? Whilst I personally would always supervise this kind of play, I am aware that DD is year 7 soon and this could be acceptable but just wanted to check the concensus.
I'll speak to Childrens law centre tomorrow and see what they say.

I thought legal spanking had to be on the bottom or leg only and not leave a mark? it just shows how crap the law is if hitting a child round the head or kicking them could possibly be considered 'reasonable chastisement'. It's physical abuse ffs!

Op you can't let your dc have a say in whether their contact is supervised or not. Kids don't always understand parental abuse and think it's alright but it isn't and you must protect them.

The watching porn while kids are outside playing is careless and selfish. Surely the point was to have a wank? completely unacceptable anywhere near children!

Jw35 is right - your children shouldn't get to decide, they are too young and they don't understand the implications and dangers of having an abusive father. His abuse is unlikely to stop and it certainly won't stop if there are no consequences. There can be no consequences without reporting to the police and/or social services. And supervised contact only is a perfectly sensible and safe consequence. I would be telling them it's that or nothing tbh.

Anyway glad you called NSPCC. Hope the children's law centre is helpful.

What do you think about the parenting course btw? Why the ? Do you think he wouldn't go or do you think he would but it wouldn't have any impact on his behaviour?

Older children playing out in a play area is completely normal.

Been on the phone all morning, getting various advice from different child protection bodies, I've reported to SS - they are investigating it, took details and his phone number, and I'm waiting for someone to call me back.
I will be ceasing contact, but I haven't emailed him to tell him yet. (not looking forward to the fall out from that!).
Emma the was just because if he was invited to go to a parenting course, he would never attend, this man is the most arrogant man you will come across, he knows it all, and will not be told how to parent his own children.
A few people have said I should contact the police. Should I do this now too? What would their likely course of action be?

I would take advice from SS re. the police. They will do it themselves if they think it is warranted.

Thanks AF SS didn't tell me to do so, so I'll leave that for now and wait to hear back from them.