so sad children have to live like this

[Pasithea]

For a specific reason I spend 45 minutes in a McDonald's / garage. Car park on Friday evening.
during this time 4 cars pulled up and one or two children got out or where carried to another car with obviously the other parent in. Cases swapped , children swapped and off they went.

It must be so horrible to be passed over like this on a weekend , some where crying most just resigned. How can kids continue with clubs and friends etc when they spend weekends away with another parent.

When I was 10 I would have only dreamed of a civilised no one talks handover in McD's.
Instead I got extreme personal slanging matches in the street outside both of my homes and my friends (shared custody) and extreme embarrassment and shame.
My parents now speak to each other after 30 years of ruining every major life event of mine with their pettiness. Silence can sometimes be golden.

Such an awful, condescending OP.

It's horrendous.

Ex is not allowed to come to my house. Damn good thing too (I knew ex for 8 years prior to DC so no flash in the pan). Children have been doing this for 7 years, they don't travel with much, just medications and cuddly toys.

They are hearty sick of it. They have missed parties, sporting events, club holidays. When a certain club started penalising for not turning up to church on the parade Sunday, no exceptions, it was awful. But nothing is more important than his rights over his children.

I won't ever talk the ex voluntarily. We have email contact when necessary. But I need a record of everything that is said, both for myself and the kids sake. It's not a great way to live.

I do think people ltb too easily, however often when handover happens in a car park these are the cases when there really wasn't any choice

Of course you didn't mean that, Vivienne. Just chucking around a glib statement to make women who've not tried hard enough at their relationships feel bad. Jolly well done

Incidentally, I'm not separated/divorced/living separately from my DS's dad

Yes It was a daft thing to say. I asked DH and he said he supposed it was up to the individuals what they did. This topic was never going to end well. I didn't realise it was in the divorce and separation.

I hope the animal is ok OP

Vivienne I have seen you on more threads than I can count, you're usually a kind and astute poster and everyone has bad days

I was married for 12 years with a 4 year old and a 4 month old when I left. At the point of leaving the husband was an alcoholic with hefty cocaine and marijuana addictions who had no intention of seeing his children mid week whilst he could be at the pub. Nobody in their right mind would tell me that staying in that marriage would be more beneficial for the children. Since I left he has detoxed, is sober and a 100% better father. He was not a twat when I married him but people change.

There are too many variables to judge childrens lives in this way. How many children do you know that are happy that their unhappy angry parents stayed together for their sakes?!

Good grief. I was with my husband for 7 years before we got pregnant. Is that deemed sufficient? Sadly I didn't recognise the red flags but eventually they became obvious and I left. As far as I'm concerned I have saved both myself and my daughter. Please everyone think before posting such judgemental comments.

This was my sister and I as a child and it was fine. It was out normal and we had a whole other set of friends at my dads house.

*VivienMary

*My exH's behaviour led me to have a breakdown, I was suicidal, self-harming and it was only the timely intervention of the very good Crisis team which stopped my being hospitalised. But yes, I should have stayed with him for the sake of the children (who I was effectively unable to parent because I was so ill).

To the PP who said about waiting 13 years, I was 32 when I met exH, if I'd have waited as long as you I wouldn't have had children at all.

What a load of narrow-minded, ignorant bolloxology all in the one thread

Yep, can almost here the knicker elastic twinging as the judgy pants are hoiked up!!

HEAR bloody fat fingers!

Children don't suffer because they don't sleep in the same bed in the same house for 365 nights a year x 18 years. What is important is being well cared for every day. Sedentary lifestyles in one place are not a gold standard.

People have to make an effort to get on once they have had children. And men having affairs. I thoroughly disapprove of that and have had a couple of friends who have been left by these cheats.

You do realise women have affairs too don't you.

I was with my ex DH for 20 years (married for 8 before we divorced) and our DD was born 3 years after we married.

He is an amazing father who my DD adores. We have pick up and drop off in a church car park; I couldn't care less what nosey parkers think. We agreed to meet half way and that is what we do. There has only been about 3 occasions where I have had to take a friend with me because we have argued so badly we couldn't even speak and I did not want DD to be too affected. This was in the early years of split. We get on amazingly well now and we often meet in different places because of work, him having a day off etc.

How do you know the child is not crying because they are hungry/tired, or perhaps just been told off?

I see many parents do the same thing and I don't think less them. I would not have done before I split with my partner either. That is their business. Not quite sure you need to be so judgemental.

Whilst I get that there are circumstances that lead to parents splitting, I still can't accept that swapping children from one car to another whilst parents barely manage a civil word is in the best interests of any child.
Surely the best scenario for raising happy, secure children is two parents living in the same house and getting on together? I can't accept at all that being passed from one home to another is in the best interest of children.
I'll give you two examples. My dd1 has a lovely best friend whose parents have split up. Her mum has since remarried and she now has step siblings. She refers to "mum's house" and "dad's house"- never "my house". She misses her step siblings when away from them and cries about the things she misses when at her dad's house (he is a loving, decent parent).
Scenario two- a friend of mine has been together with her dh for a long time. They have 4 children from 7-18. They are about to split up because they are now "like brother and sister" rather than a married couple. Really??! I find it difficult to accept that as a valid reason to break apart the lives of 4 children. I do think people are too quick to throw it all away. Sometimes there are perfectly valid reasons to do so. Sometimes it just seems that the grass is a bit greener elsewhere. Sadly for the children I doubt that it ever is.

Singsong your ignorance is breathtaking and if I'd written your post id be frankly embarrassed. You have no clue.

I'm not even going to reply to any of the "points" in your ramble of disjointed babble because it's not worth my time engaging with you.

How fucking sad for you that you're such a deluded, narrow minded fool.

oh singsong, more of your smug crap.

Of course most people would prefer to be in a happy loving relationship with the parent of their child, in a totally ideal world. Unfortunately, that isn't possible a lot of the time due to various reasons, most of which are outside the control of one parent or both.

For example, my father left my mother for her best friend after they had been together for 10 years and married for 6. Don't think that just because you have been with your DP for ages and you think you are happy and committed that either he or you can't burst that bubble. I have seen men (and women) who have been in marriages for 30 years have affairs and leave their OHs.

As a child of divorced parents, I can honestly say that I am thankful my dad fucked off - it made my mum, siblings and I extremely close. We've been through a lot together and we have all grown up happy and well adjusted. So thanks for your concern, but try to keep your judgmental and ill informed opinions to yourself, would you?

FFS It would be a lovely life if we all fitted the dream world of some people. What is worse, swapping cars at the weekend or watching Mummy getting beat up. Unless you've experienced an abusive marriage don't fuckin judge.

I can't accept at all that being passed from one home to another is in the best interest of children.

You're being a little simplistic here, the reasons are many & varied as to why children live in more than one home. Are you suggesting in all seriousness that a child living with parents who hear them screaming filthy words at each other, witness physical domestic violence or when one partner has an affair & the continuance of the marriage is impossible, is better than those parents living apart & providing an environment of peace, calm & love?

It would lovely if every separation was accompanied by parents who were able to be civil to each other, but that ignores the fact that we are all human with tendencies to jealousy, anger, bitterness, rage etc

We are thankfully living in an age now where women do not have to stay in unhappy marriages for years & years & where women don't have to lay in the beds that they have made etc etc Too many of our female ancestors have been forced by convention to live in unspeakable relationships (my grandmother was one of them) for decades & the children from these relationships are extremely damaged & have no idea how to conduct a healthy adult relationship.

Scenario two- a friend of mine has been together with her dh for a long time. They have 4 children from 7-18. They are about to split up because they are now "like brother and sister" rather than a married couple. Really??! I find it difficult to accept that as a valid reason to break apart the lives of 4 children.

I disagree. It's entirely valid. Are you seriously suggesting that couples who aren't in love should stay together? It's not healthy for them and it's ultimately not healthy for the children either, given that their attitude to relationships will be defined by this and they will grow up thinking it is totally normal. It isn't.

I think that couples who otherwise get on, where there is absolutely no abuse at all but where they feel the "spark" has gone should, if they have 4 children, stay together yes I do.

The truth is that marriage isn't all hearts and flowers. There have been periods of my marriage when we've both been thoroughly knackered from raising kids and just getting by and feeling loved up has been the last of our concerns.

If there's abuse, emotional or otherwise then of course that's a different matter altogether but even then I think it's reasonable to say that two loving parents who live together is better for kids, surely??

Singsong I imagine if the child has "two loving parents" presuming you mean loving with each other then yes those parents will stay together. Why would they spilt up?

The situation whereby both parents love the child but don't love each other - my god why would you spend 50 years with someone who you didn't love and who didn't love you? Do you think that would be healthy? Do you think that would demonstrate a fulfilling and happy relationship to the child? Do you think that would result in a happy household?

I'm agog. Really.

You are then basically teaching children that, as adults, their own thoughts, feelings and needs don't matter when they absolutely do. There is no benefit whatsoever to two parents staying in a loveless marriage 'for the sake of the children'.

I genuinely can't believe that you are saying that even in cases of emotional/physical abuse it's still reasonable for 'two loving parents to stay together'. If there's abuse then at least one of them isn't a 'loving parent'.

To be perfectly frank that's a disgusting attitude and I'm quite horrified if that's the kind of bollocks you're passing on to your DC.

If there's abuse, emotional or otherwise then of course that's a different matter altogether but even then I think it's reasonable to say that two loving parents who live together is better for kids, surely??

No.

Singsong is suggesting that women should continue to live in abusive marriages? Wtaf? I will say again. Let's hope you are never in a situation where your husband suddenly turns into an abusive fuckwit. When that happens, I might be prepared to listen to some more of your crap helpful (not) advice.