STBXH obstructing divorce because he wants me to talk to OW

[chocoraisin]

I can't quite believe what my H is asking of me. I have no idea what to respond (so far have ignored the request). Essentially, he is refusing to give me the address where he and OW live so that I can serve their divorce papers (I am naming her in the divorce). He wants me to understand that she feels a need to control the situation and is not prepared to allow me to know where they live.

I am 34 weeks pregnant, I discovered their affair when I was 14 weeks pregnant. I've not once contacted her, or done anything at all to cause them a problem - I don't have any desire to be nasty. I'm bewildered by their reluctance to move forward and allow me to file for divorce when H actually asked for the divorce months ago?

Anyway, he has now asked me to give my permission for OW to email me because she thinks she needs to open a dialogue with me and he wants ME to allay her fears.

I don't give a damn what she's scared of - she is living with my husband, having a sexual relationship with him while I'm pregnant with our second child and caring for our toddler. I have every right to name her in our divorce - it's happening because of their relationship. I don't see a single reason why I should allow her to contact me when her reason for obstructing the divorce is the imagined threat of harassment from me!!

Where do I go from here? Is this request as unbelievably unreasonable as I think it is? H is charming, manipulative, incredibly selfish and unable to empathise in any way. I can't work out if this is another way he is trying to railroad me into accepting their relationship (he wants her to have a role in our children's lives - I haven't even given birth to one of them yet). I feel trampled on and hurt, all I want is to get divorced and move on. But I want my divorce to reflect the truth - he is with her, it wasn't a random one night stand. She wants a place in my family FGS so yes, I want to name her!! I'm not crazy for thinking I have the right to do so am I? And she has no right to force herself on me in the meantime?

Help - I'm confused and tired and I just want to know how to respond :(

part of me thinks say yes, let her contact me, never reply and then use the email as evidence of their relationship in the papers. But I don't even know if you can do that? And I don't want to open myself up to her sending me emails all the time that upset me when I'm about to have a baby :(

I would tell him and her to take a running jump. She sounds like a total bitch, it's all about her, etc. Just tell him that you never, ever want to hear from her and that there is nothing she could say that you want to hear. It would all probably be a steaming pile of shit along the lines of she's very sorry, fell in love, etc but hopes you're ok and that you can all be civil for the sake of the kids. Is that going to make you feel better? I doubt it.

Can the divorce papers not be served to his work address?

I have followed your story choco, I have no idea why he thought this was a good idea..Its almost insulting and rubbing your nose in it really (to me)

There must be somewhere else to serve the papers surely? what does your solicitor think of his daft proposal?

I was just going to say can you not send them to his work address? You owe ow nothing!!!

Send them to him at work. Preferably hand delivered a la the Americans. In front of the biggest boss available and as many important clients as can be fitted into a meeting room.

I have no idea about the legalities, but he sounds like a selfish fucker and you're well rid!

Or go to the library and find her on the electoral roll...

choco - part of me is surprised you're surprised. The guy was living with her in your house whilst you were away on holiday. He's utterly without shame.

You should have absolutely no contact whatsoever with the OW. Why on earth would that do you or your dc any good? And they are the only people you need be concerned with in any of this. Fuck him, and her. They are Not. Your. Problem.

So moving to the practical problem - your ex will not tell you where he lives. (The fact it's her house and she won't allow it is irrelevant detail). Does your solicitor have advice on where you can serve papers on him? Or of how much proof you need to name her in your divorce papers? I would have thought there is significant circumstantial evidence you could amass if you had to - like witness statements from your old neighbours who heard them shagging for god's sake!

I would get him out of your head and out of your life as much as you practically can when you're pregnant with his child. Can you reduce contact solely to issues to do with contact with your existing ds for now? I assume your solicitor also will have some advice on how much/what type of contact is suggested for newborns but surely that can't be much more than taking the baby out for a walk in the pram in the afternoon or similar?

Communication is usually good and very few people name anyone on divorce petitions these days, not the done thing, BUT you have the right not to speak to her or email her and you have the right to name her. Of course you can find out where he is living. We can probably help you on here.

First of all have you looked at 192.com? You can buy credits - it has the electoral register on it and if the OW is a company director or your husband will have companies house data too?

Or you could try calling her employer and saying you are a long lost school friend and you just need her address although they are likely to refuse and might rumble you.

Obviously try google searches, her facebook page etc.

It is also not illegal to follow someone so you could surely just follow your husband from work one night just to get the address?

If you really have to pay a private eye and they will get it for you.

Also it is legally permissible to serve some types of court papers by email if there is no other address although I doubt it will be necessary here.

The gentle way to divorce which we did (we were still in the same house) is your lawyer sends a draft divorce petition so his can make amendments to a version he likes and then once it is agreed issue it. I can understand however that the civilised gentle way to divorce is not likely to be uppermost in your mind.

Yes, his request is totally unreasonable. You have every right to name her in the divorce. And you do not need to speak to her. In fact, I would ignore them completely until the divorce papers have been served.

OP, I hope you are OK. They are a pair of shits to do this to you .

Fucking hell, no of course she can't contact you.
A bit of Internet stalking will i'm sure uncover her address though.

Hi, I am no use, but just wanted to say how much I feel for you...what a horrible disgusting situation this "man" has put you in.

You do have a lawyer? If not you need one. You could then cease all contact and do it through them. You should NOT have to deal with this particularly being pregnant and all. Its too much for you. I would think also that a lawyer would beable to sort out the address issue. Maybe post this is Legal too?

I wouldn't be doing either of them any favours which is what they are asking you to do. You are being bullied into submission when you are vulnerable.

Get some legal advice, and keep posting, lots of people will support you, you need it. I hope you have some support in RL too...

OMG I cannot get over how fucked up his priorities are.

XXX thinking of you.

"Fine, if you want to stay married to me, you do that. These are your choices. Give me your address so I can proceed, or do nothing and we stay married and she carries on living with a man who is married to another woman. I don't care about her fears or yours and there will be no dialogue between me and her. Give me the address and we divorce, or don't and the two of you enjoy your relationship knowing you are actually still married to me."

That's honestly what I'd say.

thank you all - can't believe how many replies there are for a sunday morning! I have drafted a reply and saved it (along the lines of No, NO and NOOOOO) but I think reading what you've all suggested I will hold onto it until the morning and phone my solicitor. I am at the point now where I would prefer everything to go via her, and nothing via me. I think the less I say that he can twist or use as another stick to poke me with, the better.

Hard as it is I think no reply other than 'no, I do not wish to hear from her. Please await instructions from my solicitor' may be the way forwards here. I'm really grateful to be reminded he is a total arse. Sometimes he's such a charming/glib/manipulative fucker he actually makes you think he's doing YOU a favour when he goes on one like this... :(

I'm quite sure he's done the self-important "let's all try and be civilised about this" routine - conveniently neglecting the fact that fucking your OW in your marital home is anything but.

But this isn't about revenge or striking back - your instinct is to keep their relationship out of yours, and out of your life. That's perfectly fair and reasonable. Whether or not she will one day be the children's step-mother is not an issue to be concerned with at this stage.

Don't give them the satisfaction of knowing their loopy request rattled you. A frosty response via the solicitor on the issue of where papers can be served is enough - I doubt it even needs to mention the contact request from OW but as a one-liner 'In addition my client wishes to confirm that there should be no contact made by xxx' should be enough.

If he has a solicitor he can be served via their offices.

I agree that there is no reason whatsoever for her to be able to contact you direct. They do, however, have to admit adultery on the acknowledgement of service forms and if there's any doubt that they will do so I'd be inclined either not to name the other woman (there isn't really any advantage indoing so), or divorce him on his unreasonable behaviour, as he doesn't need to admit that in order to progress to decree nisi.

It will also make no difference to who gets what whether he committed adultery or not and with whom so will not make him worse off is that is used as the reason although as mumblec says above he has to admit he has.

He and she do not have to tell you where they live. However as said above if he has a lawyer the papers can be served there.

Also I am not sure which of you or your husband earns the most but is he paying what he should now? Does he do half the childcare? There is no better way to make a new woman or man realise life will not be a bed or roses than having a screaming toddler waking you up half the night and up bright as a button at 5am on a Saturday knowing the next 16 hours will be sold toddler care and no cosy love nest long lie ins.

He has already said they will both agree to admitting adultery, which makes it even weirder to obstruct now. I believe it comes down to cost. He will give me their address only if my lawyer writes to his stating I will not pursue for costs - but this will not be the most expensive fuck I never had. So that's not going to happen. If I can serve through his solicitor then I will. Alternatively, it would give me great satisfaction to get their address from a friend and serve them there irrespective of them giving it to me willingly

I hear what you're saying about not naming her, but really for me, it's not about getting divorced easily. It's about him and her taking responsibility for their actions. I couldn't care less if it takes years and thousands of pounds to divorce me. I'm not about to fudge the facts or make it easy for them, to spare OW embarrassment. Their actions had consequences - for me, those consequences were the end of my family, the loss of my home while pregnant, the loss of my job and financial security, and a future as a single mother of two. For them, so far the consequences have been moving into a shagpad together and avoiding more or less all responsibilty for the family he has abandoned. They are both students so have no obligation to pay any maintenance. He gives me about £25 a week which he considers to be a goodwill gesture!

As for a reality check, I facilitate regular contact between H and DS but would not contemplate leaving our 22month DS in their care for days, not even to make a point that having children is hard. H never had childcare responsibility like that when we were together, and I don't trust them to manage DS's medical condition. I also would not be comfortable in any way with sending DS off to stay at a house I am not even permitted to have the address to - I find it controlling and bizarre of them to imagine I should allow that to happen, and I won't. They know where I live, have all my contact details and I share all information with H about DS (above and beyond what my solicitor thinks I need to).

I don't think this is going to be as stress free or amicable as either of us had hoped. Amicable to him means no costs, no embarrassment, no fuss. Amicable to me means him offering to pay my costs, accepting the responsibility for what has happened and making a sincere apology. I am beginning to realise I am not interested in reaching a 'middle ground' - I would rather stay true to myself and fight for him to treat me decently, no matter what. I've given up enough for them already. Dignified reserve is frankly, overrated IMO right now.

He is trying to dignify his affair by giving her some legitimacy in your marriage - fuck that!

I really would be telling him, in the civillest terms possible, to take a running jump.

And if he is already elevating her to this position of power over your relationship with him, then God help you when the children get involved - he's going to just bow to her wishes over everything and ignore yours.

You need to really sort out contact with a lawyer asap - because he is going to do what OW wants at every turn.

I wouldn't bother naming her if I were you, all she has to do is not respond at all and she is left out of the petition.

I named the OW and ex dh. He admitted adultery, she never responded - she was then left out of the petition by the judge.

I am of the same opinion thumbwitch and I'm just not going to respond at all this weekend, I'll call my lawyer on Monday for a chat then go over everything (including formalising contact arrangements) on Weds.

One good thing that is coming out of his fuckwittery this weekend though is that I have realised where my line is, and I am committed to not giving any more ground. I think I needed something like this to make me wake up and realise that if I don't put down some boundaries and reinforce them with 3rd party support, I am going to get royally fucked over in the future. I have been hoping that by treating them with respect I will receive it in return.

Even saying that outloud to myself I'm aware of how ridiculous it now sounds.

I wouldn't reply at all I'd just ask your solicitor to serve it via his solicitor. Keep contact with him to child contact only you just don't need the grief.

Laurie if I don't even try I'll always wish I had. So even if that's the outcome I still want her to have to read the papers and see her part in it. If she runs a mile then I can't do anything about it. But to give in without mentioning her would erode my self-esteem further, and I'm not about to hand over more of what little I have left. I can't control her reaction, but I can choose how I handle this bit myself. I am prepared to let go of the outcome, more or less.

chocoraisin - it's an amazing thing - just when you think they can't possibly sink any lower, they still manage it. I'm glad this has been the kick you needed to take back control - the OW has had it all her own way so far, time you stood up for yourself and your children. Your H obviously has no balls - she "wants to be in control" and he's just giving in to her - there is no respect for you there, none at all - and she obviously had none for you in the first place.

Try to stay civil though, purely because descending to their level will make you cross with yourself at some point in the future, however good it feels in the moment. :)

Also be cvery very careful what they mean by costs. There are two aspects. The person petitioning for divorce (you) gets their costs (ie the court fees, ie hardly any of the divorce) paid by the person on the other side - him. That is totally different from the question of who pays all the solicitor and barrister costs on both sides. He might just be making some point about if you divorce him rather than vice versa he has to pay your divorce petition fee.

If the child is with you for a start you should be given 10% of his after tax earnings per child. Secondly if he works and you don't then even before any money things are sorted out he should be paying you some payments for yourself so you can pay the mortgage or rent and eat etc.

People always rush to blam the other woman (who of course should in part be blamed) but this is about adultery by the husband. The greater fault lies with him. He should also deal with all divorce matters. It is nothing to do with his new lover.

Just to correct Xenia, the CSA rates are 15% for 1 child, 20% for two, 25% for 3 or more.

It may be nothing to do with her re: costs etc, but it has everything to do with her when he's using her wants/needs as a bargaining chip to get me to do things their way.

FWIW I don't blame her for the adultery. I do blame them for the way they are conducting themselves as time goes on. She wants to be stepmother (they have asked to involve her in the care of my as yet unborn child, let alone DS!!) and is trying to not only have a relationship with the man I married (his fault) but force her way into my family at the same time. I am not about to roll over and say sure, here's my baby and my husband and my home. Would you like anything else, tea perhaps? Excuse me while I write you a cheque to take home while you're here.

This is why you are of course, all absolutely right. She cannot be in contact with me and I will only be able to move things forwards via a solicitor. I can't have a reasonable reaction to such unreasonable people... its going to make my head pop if I try!! This may well be the most unpleasant thing I've ever had to deal with. :(