Is it usual for men to feel a bit "meh" about fatherhood?

[HeadFairy]

DH and I were having our usual argument about having another baby (I would like one more, he doesn't) at the weekend and he admitted he doesn't feel that excited about being a father.

DH's father won't exactly win any prizes for being father of the year, he divorced his mother when dh was 10 and didn't see him again until he was 25 and before ds was born dh always said he wanted to be the father his father wasn't, ie always there, never missing a football game/sports day/school play.

I think he found the reality of having a new baby tough, the fact that it didn't involve him much must have hit him hard. Maybe I was guilty of taking charge a bit too much, but since I've returned to work dh gives ds his bedtime milk and puts him to bed three times a week and he's brilliant with him.

Our son has been a fanastic baby, but dh says he can't take the stress of another baby, but we had almost no stress. His counter argument on that one is what if we had a baby that was hard work?

He says he's selfish and he's trying to change but another baby would mean more of our freedoms would go. I say they're gone already because of ds, but he said another child would make it worse.

A part of me thinks he's being a teensy bit immature thinking it's all cute football games in the park and fishing trips, after all motherhood isn't all hugs kisses and "I wuv you mummy" either. Maybe I'm being too harsh. I'd very much appreciate a male perspective on this, sorry for rambling.

I'm not a male but had to post here - my DH and your DH sound like twins!! Although my DH loves DS to bits, he does ramble on about how hard it all is and I'm thinking that compared to a lot of Dads, he does have it quite easy with DS....you are not alone. Will be watching this thread with interest!

Nive months is a bit soon to bring the subject up. I'm not a very "baby" person, used to think good grief why on earth would anyone have a second. Once DS hit about 18-24 months, we just setteld down and now I can't see why anyone wouldn't want two!

Suspect I am a bit of a man in this respect.

I did suspect dh wasn't alone in thinking like this pussinjimmychoos... I hope you get a bit more success than I've achieved thus far.

kewcumber - I'm worrying a bit about my age, it took 18 months to conceive ds and I'm 38 so although it's not blind panic, I don't have the luxury of too much time. My family have been urging me to get pg and he'll then just have to deal with it, but I think that's awful. I wouldn't do that to him, although I've been so tempted. Mind you, considering how much effort it took to conceive ds I don't think I'd get away with it (suddenly turning rampant might give the game away )

justabout - I think I do too much entertaining ds really. This weekend was typical, dh sat around and read the paper while I played with ds. I've told him that children once they get a bit older can entertain each other, but he says that's a rubbish reason for having children. personally I think it's a brilliant reason but maybe I'm wrong.

We do want another one and will TTC as soon as my smear results are back and hopefully ok (blardy thing taking an age!!) but DH has mixed feelings about it all. Sometimes he's positive but then when we have a bad night with DS or an argument, out comes the gem of 'oh and you want another one' or 'you wait, if we have another one, I'll remind you' blah blah...I just let it go over my head because men don't like to think of anything that gives them extra work and they moan about it!

Oh lucky you pussinjimmychoos... I hope the smear results are good. I could put up with the "and you want another one?" digs, I do in fact. But he sounds so determined I can't see him changing his mind. I don't know why it's hit me so hard this time, previously I've shrugged it off and thought he'd come round in the end, but I've spent most of the weekend in tears this time. He did almost relent when he said we could have another baby as obviously it would be inconvenient for us for a couple of years but if we didn't it would devastate me for the rest of my life, I should have leapt at that but I didn't. I'm being stupid and wanting him to want another child and I guess that's probably not going to happen. Thing is I know he'd love the child if we had another one, he's totally gaga about our ds.

Yes DH is mad about our DS too so I know he would be fine if we have another one (God Willing). I just think all men see is the disrupted sleep, the hassle etc and lets face it - they do like an easy life don't they? That's why it puts them off! Have you sat down and really talked to him about why he doesn't want another one?

One factor in us wanting another child is that we don't think its good for DS to be an only child - its good for them to learn how to share, to have someone to be there for them when the parents get older - my sis and I supported each other through our parent's divorce for example. Has your DH thought about that at all?

I wanted a second but dp doesn't as he thinks our life is pretty perfect so why change things. DD is now 2.8 and she and dp are very close and spend lots of time together. I respect his point of view and can see his logic.

I did worry about her being an only child as I'm one of four but dp is an only child and assures me it's okay.

pussinjimmychoos - we did sit down and discuss it a lot this weekend. His reasons are many really... he doesn't want to go through the stress again (there wasn't any last time), we can't afford it (we can really, we're much more protected than most), we're just starting to get our life back and we'd have to go back to sleepless nights and disruption again (none of which he did last time, I did all the night feeding) and he offers up the "what if we have a nightmare child" theory too. I said what if we have another dream baby but he can't see it that way at all. They all sound like a lot of excuses to me, like his excuse that he's too selfish to have another child. Deep down I think his relationship with his father has affected him more than he recognises. I did suggest that perhaps he might be more affected and he agreed. I think not having a dad around from 10-25 has left him with shattered confidence. It's not something that's obvious normally, but I think in this case it has left it's scars.

Yama - my biggest concern is ds being an only child. It fills me with sadness that he won't have a brother or sister to share things with, fight with, turn to when he's fed up of us. I'm very close to my family and esp my sister and dh isn't very close to his sister at all, there's an 8 year age gap between them and he's really only had proper contact with her since ds was born. I'm sure that's coloured his thinking too.

I really feel for you headfairy. I would like 3 but dh wants to stop at the 2 we have and I am finding that hard - would have been gutted if he had only wanted one. Did you discuss number of kids in the early stages of your relationship? What did he say then? My dh has always said that he wanted 2 but I naively thought that I could talk him round when the time came - it turns out to be harder to do that that I'd thought!

I do think that men often find toddlers more interesting than babies and can feel excluded from the mother - baby relationship. My dh didn't complain about it at the time but once ds1 got older confessed how relieved he felt that he was enjoying him now because he hadn't enjoyed having a little baby around.

If you can bear to perhaps you could try not to discuss the subject for 6 months or so? I think that constant discussion can make people more entrenched in their opinion - I think that's where I may have been going wrong with my dh re having a third.

So sorry that you are having a hard time with convincing your DH. It does sound as if his relationships with his family have clouded things an awful lot. Would counselling help you think? DS has been a relatively easy baby too and I know DH is thinking what if we have to walk the floor with the next one, what if my PND comes back etc but like I said to him, if we are blessed with another child (yes, I am religious! lol!) there are no guarantees on anything...it may sleep straight through at 10 weeks, it may not, I'm more prepared for PND if it happens again and so forth...you just cannot predict.

On a lighter note though - I did say to him, right I'm off the pill now as I'm tired of taking it and I think its making me fat. If you really don't want another child, you go and sort the contraception out. They just don't bother and that way you haven't done anything sneaky.....

Birdyarms - we did discuss it before we married, I wanted three he wanted two, so we agreed on two but now he's reneged on that saying it was so much harder than he thought. Like you I decided not to mention it at all, I know what men are like, they tend to react badly if pushed in to a corner and badgered about something and this is not something I wanted him to dig his heels in about. This was the first time we've discussed it for months and really the first time we've discussed it properly.

Pussinjimmychoos - I've tried to persuade dh that things will be easier second time round as I know how to bf now and I know how much sleep they should have and how to look after a new born etc etc but to no avail. He says every baby is different, I'm sure he's right and each child brings different challenges, but we've gone along such a steep learning curve we've got to be better prepared! I like your approach about contraception. Someone else suggested that to me, I've already said I'm not going on the pill, and he hates condoms.

Well I thought to myself I've been taking the pill for over 10years now (apart from when TTC DS) and I'm sure its not helping me lose weight so I thought right, I'll lay it on the line and be honest, say I'm coming off it and that if he wants protected sex to get condoms. He hates condoms too...are you sure our DH's aren't related???

dh does have a half brother he's never met (another relic of his father's terrible parenting!) but he's much younger!

Maybe they're the same person we could be on an episode of Jeremy Kyle!

Maybe men have some very gender specific behaviour patterns/likes and dislikes! Perhaps some of the fathers on here would care to comment?

Yes, where are all the men???!!

thinking up excuses for not having more babies

Headfairy - the only child did bother me until I realised that I was being coloured by my experiences. Dp says being an only child was fine, I say being one of many was fine. I can't really compare; to do so would be like saying 'my childhood was better than your childhood'.

I may think it though .

I do get your point yama, and I'm sure my feelings about ds being an only child are coloured by my own experiences. Despite the fact that my sister and I are very close now, we weren't always. There's 4 years between us and I spent quite a large part of my teens lonely and on my own in a house in the country, with no public transport and no means of getting out. I used to come home from school and sit in the house on my own and feel pretty sorry for myself. Now I know having another child won't guarantee ds won't have the same experience, after all I have a sister and I was lonely, but he would at least have a chance of avoiding that kind of experience.

Being lonely in your teens must have been really crap. I know people can feel lonely anywhere but maybe living in the country was the key factor.

You are going to reignite my desire for a second.

I always wanted 2, so can understand where you're coming from, dp was set against it but he came round in the end, took a lot of waiting and talking and biting my tongue at times but I think on the whole we're both happy we had dd2.

There was so many reasons I wanted a 2nd the biggest one was I felt torn apart at the thought of never being pg again, never having a sibling for dd1 etc

After arguing/ talking about it for about 2 years and him saying def no way i started to burst into tears everytime i saw a baby or a pg lady after a couple of months dp could see how not having a baby was affecting me ( i wasn't trying to emotionally blackmail him I was genuinely upset) so we agreed on a date to start trying and 2 weeks after that I got a bfp

I hope it works out for you too!

oh yama, I'm sorry, I don't want to rock the boat and cause broodiness!

It was tough being lonely as a teenager, I'm sure that's why I overate as well. I was 18 stone when I was 18. I used to come home and out of boredom and maybe a bit of depression sit at home and eat and eat and eat. Ridiculous amounts of food. Whole loaves of bread with masses of butter

I'm glad you managed to persuade your dh lovemygirls. I think dh was a bit shocked at all the tears this weekend. I'm not normally an emotional blackmailer either, but I couldn't control how sad it made me feel. I think dh didnt' realise whereas he was thinking about the next couple of years of our lives I would be sad for the rest of my life about not having another child. Normally I bounce back from every argument, I'm not one to dwell on anything, but I think he was shocked at how down it's left me.

That's okay Headfairy. If ever I feel it's a shame for dd being an only child I remind myself of all the nice teenagers I teach that are only children.

Summer holidays here in Scotland and it is hard work being with a toddler all day. She's been napping for over an hour so I'd better wake her up.

oh yeah, I know it's not going to mean ds is going to turn out horrible, my dad is an only child and my mum says he can't cope with us all bickering and arguing, but if that's the worst that happens....