Is the CSA legislation wrong?

[erasurefan]

Hi Guys,

First time poster here. I just had to get something off my chest before I go insane.

Until a week ago, since 2008 (when the ex moved her and my kid to Glasgow, 300 miles away) I'd been paying £25 a week for my child to my ex. This was based on the CSA calculator, by us both sitting down and calculating it based on the fact my child would stay with 3-4 nights a week if my ex stayed living just around the corner from me, so making the respective reduction in the actual payment. We wrote up a little letter and both signed it, to this agreement.

Aside from the child maintenance, since 2008, I've also been putting £40 a month (as have my parents - so £80 a month in all) into a bank account (which my and my parents set up) for said child to spend on whatever she likes - I have no idea where this money goes or what its spent on - I've never asked.

I've also contributed £100 every year towards school trips, and £50 a year for school uniforms, without any questions..

So... All in all my daughter gets money to her mum, and money to herself.

Last week, things took a twist and shes approached the CSA, who've said that around £44ish a week is more realistic and told me that is what I have to pay going forwards. Now, considering I actually earn about £2k a year less than when we were together, I found that as a bit of a stab in the chest in the steep (IMO) rise.

I've spoke to CSA for hours over the last few days and asked how this is a fair assessment considering I live so far away. The only reduction they can make are for my travelling expenses (roughly £200 each journey, four times a year), and for the fact I have her 52 days a year.

However - My ex has told the CSA that I dont have her 52 days a year - So, they've just gone with that, due to their "legislation" which favours the mother in every scenario, and theyve refused that particular reduction.

I try to organise to have my child every school holiday, but, as the years have gone by, my ex is making this increasingly difficult to arrange. She leaves everything to the last minute (and now my child does the same!) so my current partner and I have to either pay a fortune for any kind of holiday for us all, or cant get the time off work, anyway and have to only see her for a couple of days.

So, my question, I guess, is, do you think the CSA regulation of going with whatever the mum says is right....?

Because, the situation I'm in at the moment is my ex will do everything in her power to make sure I don't get to have my child more than 52 days a year, which is kind of, IMO, denying access... Safe in the knowledge that she will actually get paid MORE money from me for the "privilege".

I've been on the phone to the CSA for two hours this morning, and all they can suggest (even though they sympathise with me greatly) is that if I dont agree with their regulation to write a letter to my MP to try to get the regulation amended. Yeah, right.

It's heartbreaking to know I keep getting a raw deal - I cant talk about it without having tears in my eyes - I do all the travelling, pay all this money, and have the nightmare of logistics four times a year and a very, very awkward ex, and I'm the bad guy.

I just wondered if there were any Dad's out there in a similar situation that could lend an ear, as, at the moment - although my girlfriend as been absolutely amazing and a rock for me - it still feels like no-one is this same situation, and it feels....well, lonely, I guess.

I am clearly in the minority of people who don't find that children cost millions
Children don't have to cost millions but they do cost more than £25 per week.
I'm a working parent and was single for a long time. Nursery fees cost more than £25 a day, let alone a week. Or if you stay at home so you don't have childcare costs, how do you pay your rent/mortgage?
Children may not cost much on top of what you need to live as an adult, but they do impact on your ability to earn that sum in the first place.

6.26 a day. that would not feed my child and pay bus to school. let alone clothe her in basics. 12.52 would not cover her either. its not fair they moved. its not fair you dont see her. its prob not fair if they just accept one persons word. but dont complain about your contribution.

The worse thing to happen is when an ex moves a long distance away thus removing the option of shared custody. To add insult to injury not only does this only vastly reduce the contact you have with the kids but it also vastly increases your financial burden and places into the pockets of your ex (in the hope they spend it on the kids). It adds even extra insuslt when you are expected put all the time and expense of seeing the traveling across the country to see the kids when them being moved away from you was not of your choice. But the states concern is not the wrong or rights of the non resident parent who's kids have been moved away from them but the financial welfare of the kids. Personally I think in a shared parenting (whether it's 50/50 or 30/70 say) situation neither parent should be able to move the kids away just like that 300 miles up the road. So I feel sorry for the poster. But this is how the system works. My only solution I think of is to move to the city the kids live and start shared parenting again (but no doubt this is not practical for you). I am just thankful my ex left me with the kids, I love them with all my heart. She took them 100 miles up the road with her for the first 2 months we were apart but be she wasn't up to it. I was heart broken at the time but felt powerless because she was their mum. So I can understand how heart braking it is to have your children taken away all that distance. And I'm sorry your ex doesn't do more to help facilitate your contact. My ex lives 100 miles away and I do my best to help her to spend time with the kids.

But the fact of the mater is she has the kids up there and kids cost money.

....thank you for your post.... it means alot...

I have been feeling the last few days or so that there's no-one in the World in my scenario. It's good to know I'm not the only one...

Thank you.

I know this has got quite a heated debate. I'm sorry about that, as it wasn't my intention.

Its just a heartbreaking scenario that I wouldn't wish my worst enemy to go through. I've tried to see it from the other side too, but I find it hard because I wouldn't want anyone else's money, so I wouldn't force her to pay anything at all.

I wouldn't want anyone else's money

It's not anyone else's money. It is the father of the child's money. The man who took a 50/50 part in creating her and is morally obliged to take a 50/50 part in raising her and legally obliged to pay towards her upkeep.

How old is your child?

I have a fourteen year old girl and she spends about half of what you've been asked to pay per month on toiletries alone.

Sanitary products, deodorants, hair products, make-up, spot creams etc all add up. This week we need shampoo, leave in conditioner and a new spot cream because the last one 'stopped working'. Last week it was conditioner and face powder. Next week it will something else.

it also vastly increases your financial burden and places into the pockets of your ex (in the hope they spend it on the kids)

You seem confused. You would still have to finance the children if they were staying in your home. They still require food, electric, heating, hot water, clothes. Your child spending more time with their other parent does not “vastly increase your financial burden”

Your language regarding having to pay slightly more for your (growing) child’s upkeep is quite hilarious. Heartbreaking? Really? Are you emotionally attached to that £19 extra per week?

Op believe me they don’t, it might feel like it to you. As someone who can’t get a full payment out of my ex and due to no one knowing their arse from their elbow neither can they.

To be fair it's not much of an increase! £44 a week is hardly going to break you is it? I actually don't think you understand how much it actually cost per month to raise a child especially as they cost more as they get older. Your her father she is entitiled to this money it's not 'somebody else's money', £25 a week is pittance that wouldn't even last a couple of days, £44 is still too little but if that's all you can afford then so be it but you just have to suck it up and deal with it.

My mind is blown that someone can spend 9 years paying £25 a week towards the cost of raising a child (or even £50 ish per week if we factor in all the other payments made) and feel hard done by.

I'm (thankfully) married to my children's father so have never had to negotiate maintenance payments but surely anyone could see that it costs more than that to raise a child? The fact that the child's mother might be entitled to tax credits or child benefit on top of that is irrelevant, because it's the parent's responsibility to support the child.

Your mind is blown? Seriously?

I travel over 4000 miles a year to see my child, and I'm constantly told to get lost when I try to show concern over her career, upbringing, potential sex life, and organising her coming down to stay with me. She doesn't even come to the door to acknowledge I'm there. After a 5 hour trip, surely I can expect a "hello, was the journey OK" at least?

So, Yeah, for me it's really upsetting.

Really? Your teenage daughter isn’t interested in talking to you about leaving her home and friends for a couple of weeks to visit the man who resents paying a tiny proportion of her costs? How surprising.

OP: my DH travels a 200 mile round trip every other Friday and Sunday to pick up one of his children, or two, or three: they are teens and have busy social lives. Plus school/uni hols it's about 6K miles a year, plus he pays maintenance (a similar amount to your new figure). Plus a few treats and that's it: all money gone. I pay for everything else to enable his relationship with them. And yes, his exW behaviour is very like your exW. You just have to do as much as you can and do what's right by your child. It's all you can do.

Yes, my mind is blown. My husband has paid a hell of a lot more than £25 per week towards the living costs of each child. I think most non absent parents do.

Sorry, I shouldn't use the term absent since you have stated that it's not your choice. Apologies.

You are absolutely wrong OP. They accept whatever information is given to them first and check it with the other parent, irrespective of gender or who the child lives with.

£100 per month is a shockingly small amount. Really insulting to give a further £80 to the child when you are not providing adequate financial support to the resident parent. Completely laughable to suggest that you are paying for the whole cost of raising a child. You were joking, right?

told to get lost when I try to show concern over her career, upbringing, potential sex life, and organising her coming down to stay with me. She doesn't even come to the door to acknowledge I'm there. After a 5 hour trip, surely I can expect a "hello, was the journey OK" at least?

Are you talking about your daughter here?

I wouldn't want anyone else's money, so I wouldn't force her to pay anything at all. So you don't think you should pay anything? Wow

It’s crappy that they are taking her word over yours about the number of overnights but it’s not Policy to assume that the mother is telling the truth and the father lying. For example, say a RP wants to make a claim against the NRP. It is up to them to find info so that they can be traced. How many people know their ex’s income especially if it’s years after a split?

The CMS is failing many kids which is totally unacceptable. I’d like to see them with hardline powers like in the US.

In your shoes, can’t you just pay the £44 and reduce pocket money or the savings account by £20pm to offset the increase?

The fact that you say you wouldn’t take “someone else’s” money suggests you are fairly comfortable. Certainly comfortable enough to pay more than £25 a week for your own child’s upbringing.

Got my numbers wrong. Stop the savings account and pay the £44 via CSA instead. How old is your dd? My kids cost less than £40 per year in school trips bar a couple of years that they went on residential. Is she in primary or secondary? £100 is a generous amount for uniform (assuming that she hasn’t just started a new school )

£100 is a generous amount for uniform!? You must be joking.

£100 is about half of a bog standard cheap uniform that can be bought in supermarkets. But it depends on the school. Check out the current thread about the colourful uniforms in NI to get an idea of those prices! Sit down before reading! my son started secondary this year and even his PE socks have to be the official school ones. £12 a pair! His PE gear alone was £68, that’s not including football boots which he must have. (So another £18 minimum from sports direct) blazer was cheap at £35. I haven’t totalled my whole spend. (I’m scared to) his dad contributed nothing. Doesn’t see kids so isn’t providing food or energy. Pays £53/week between two DC.

@erasurefan I hear where you are coming from with the siding with the mother.

After 6 years of having the children 2-3 nights a week, the ex called up and asked for a re-assessment as she claimed DH hasn’t seen the children in years so they new claim was to be worked out on 0 nights.

We then had to prove to the CSA than that was bollocks.

Our court order was ignored, because in her words ‘what are they going to do? Take them off me?’ We lost out on our holiday based on that

Frustrating, to say the least.