wife rants and shouts at daughter

[Grammyka]

hi, i've got an awful situation that keeps coming up and i'd like some other views please.
basically it's like this.

My daughter - 7, who is, to be fair, a bit slack at the homework and room tidying, keeps falling foul of her mum for things like leaving her uniform in a heap. sneaking minutes on the iPad without permission, that kind of thing. all, from my perspective, normal for a 7 year old.

my mrs, is, for the most part a lovely patient kind caring woman but something about her dealings with my Daughter trigger the worst in her. This especially happens during her period. In the interests of balance i have to say that i am not criticising my wife for the why.just the how she deals with it.

This has been happening for the last several months. the mrs does not do this with our son, although he is a bit younger and maybe hasn't got to this stage yet.

So, it goes like this - the child does something like leaving her school gear in a heap my wife starts by asking her to pick it up - the kid is a bit slow on the move and will moan ( all normal, right?) so my wife raises her voice. This does not get the quick response she wants so she starts raising it some more. The Girl starts getting upset. The mrs starts properly shouting cos she is not getting the results she wants. The kid gets more upset. The wife smacks the kid - not abusive, not battering, just a tap really. the kid gets hysterical. the 'thing' that started it is still not done. The wife then starts ranting, shouting about other things that she now notices fall foul of her expectations. the kid is a wreck at this point, heavy sobs, tears streaming. The mrs makes threats about various sanctions she will impose if the 'things' are not done right now. This just makes the child's anguish worse.

Right about here i intervene. I do this because i think that beyond a certain point it is damaging to the kids wellbeing. I intervene by asking my wife to remove herself from the situation and let me deal with it. She resents this enormously and will often turn on me for undermining her - teaching the kid that it's ok to defy mum. I do believe that generally we should present a united front but this keeps happening and i've tried talking to the mrs to explain why i think she needs to adjust her methods. she is utterly unrelenting and unreasonable about this, so i don't know what else i can do, i'm trying to protect the kid.

My reasons are these :

Shouting at a kid is useful, for impact only, it should not be sustained or continuous, ranting at a kid is damaging and will not resolve the situation, it also teaches the kid that ranting is a way to achieve things, it is not. moving the goalposts to rant about other things is not fair and again damaging.

Once a child is crying you are not going to achieve anything through angry words. Continuing to shout at a crying child is pointless and indeed counter productive. Further, For me every time you smack a kid you fail as a parent, there are other ways to get things done.

This is having a seriously debilitating effect on my marriage and the 'D' word has been mentioned - never by me, by the mrs when she turns on me because oft this. She does have, and i hesitate to write it, awful hormonal anger and becomes completely irrational, aggressive and frankly impossible to talk to. she'll rant at me the same way, she'll do the same' finding fault with other things' she does with the child. for me at this point i tell her to eff off. loudly. she hates that of course. thinks its crude and not appropriate. i have to say i am always slow to anger, i always try reason, i always try to calm her down , but i might as well start by telling her to eff off for all the good it does, anything i say, do or don't do just makes her worse.

so what do you think. am i out of order?

what can i do to change this?

your thoughts and advice please.

Ok so this only happens with your daughter right? I think your wife is probably having a tough time but I will back you up and say that her aggressiveness towards your daughter is absolutely not ok for what seem like fairly minor infringements. How about you swap roles for a bit, your wife sorts your son out and you sort your daughter out. It sounds like your wife and daughter could do with some time from each other.

I wouldn't be able to stand back if my daughter was being screamed at then smacked/was sobbing, but then I wouldn't tolerate my husband being backchatted/defied by her either and I would be there backing him up very clearly/no negotiation at that stage, followed up by a talk together about what's acceptable behaviour.

It's definitely not OK that she's getting so angry and smacking - Op's detailed account of how this pans out suggests he's often close by, observing, and I wonder if the dd knows he will step in and send her mum away if things get bad.

This needs sorting soon - as does 'at this point i tell her to eff off. loudly* which I'm sure isn't good for the children to hear.

Just because something is normal behavior doesn't mean you let it slide. Disciplining your kids is also normal behavior, and if it isn't done you'll end up with an out of control brat of a teen.

You need to intervene and tell your kid to shift her arse and pick up the clothes NOW/remove iPad NOW/go to bed NOW.

And don't tell your wife to fuck off.

And actually, yes, the more I read that last section, I do think you're out of order. It shouldn't be about you 'trying to calm her down', which I very much doubt that ordering her to 'remove herself from the situation' would do anyway.

You get angry and shout at her to fuck off when the children can hear, and who is the one who is the one who is completely irrational, aggressive and frankly impossible to talk to again?

Why are you sitting back allowing this to happen? Why don't you start by being the one this week to get in there first telling your dd to pick up her uniform. You need to start by showing your dd that you too find heaped uniform unacceptable. You mention the iPad, can this not be the carrot for uniform ring hung up? Mine have been putting their uniform in hangers on their foot since Reception class. You need to have a clear rule. In our house, it's in the door, shoes off and straight upstairs to change out of uniform. It then gets hung up on door. Can you introduce that rule? Then your dd would know where she stands and what's expected. If she forgets, you remind her. You don't allow her to do anything else until her uniform is off.

As for the other stuff. It could be that your wife has a hormonal imbalance that is making her behave this way. Alternatively, it could be that she's just being nasty and aggressive. As we don't know your wife it's difficult to say which it is.

However, whatever the reason, you cannot stand back watching, allowing, even enabling your wife to rant, scream and worse smack your daughter. Smacking is never ok and all it does it teach a child that hitting is acceptable. However, neither is it ok to sit back and watch the situation develop then swan in as 'good cop' undermining your wife's position. Dh and I have disagreed many times over how the other has dealt with a situation but we always, always bring it up privately afterwards rather than in front of the children.

Deal with the uniform/frontline yourself for a few days. If your wife's behaviour dramatically improves then you'll know she was just at the end of her tether. If it continues, then you both have s problem that needs dealing with.

thank you for these offerings, as wildly different in their views as they are.

i want to reiterate that i have come on here because i am at the end of my tether, this keeps happening. I can't let my child be brought to tears and smacked by ranting mum, over stupid small things. it is disproportionate and damaging.

i do of course take a full part normally, daily, supporting my wife and getting the child to do stuff with minimal fuss - sometimes I'm just too busy to see it until it is in full flow, sometimes i don't know that my wife is like a kettle about to boil and it comes totally out of the blue - the idea that i just sit back and watch is appalling.

i always make the point of saying to my daughter that what my wife is asking her to do is reasonable and expected and that she should just get on with it and not whinge and moan. even after the explosive stuff has happened.

I do not abscond or absent myself from discipline and in many ways i'm quite strict in how i want my kids to behave and conduct themselves. i just don't lose my rag with them. it's not helpful.

when i ask my wife to remove herself from the situation, what i actually say is, 'can i deal with this now please?' or i'll find some more urgent thing that she needs to be doing so it doesn't look like i am 'stepping in' to the child.

what else am i to do..remove the child? i've done that too in the past and i can tell you it is worse that way.

i am particularly worried about creating the mum vs us situation - i think that is what my wife fears most. i am also really concerned about facilitating the childs behaviour by being 'rescue dad' allowing her to defy mum cos she knows i'll step in. in all honesty i don't see that at the moment but i accept it's possible.

i also realise that telling someone to eff off is not great. but when someone is ranting, incoherent irrational and in your face and you've tried everything else what do you do? i've tried walking away - just simmers and comes back later. i've tried calm reason - i've tried screaming back at her . fundamentally when you are faced with emotion fuelled rage there is no right answer and eff off is as good a response as any.

'can i deal with this now please?' or i'll find some more urgent thing that she needs to be doing

Ok, that's wildly patronizing and utterly infuriating. Do you not think your wife knows if she has urgent things she needs to be doing? And 'can I deal with this' is equally awful.

You can't be that busy if you know the progression of the arguments in as much detail as you document above.

'In our house, it's in the door, shoes off and straight upstairs to change out of uniform. It then gets hung up on door. Can you introduce that rule?'

this is the rule in our house too - sometimes things aren't done right and you have to talk to the kid. as i say it is not the WHY of what my wife is talking to the child about it is the METHOD. I DO deal with this and other issues regularly. we share parenting, it is not like i'm with the boy and she's with the girl. most of the time our house is harmonious , happy and loving.

i want to stress again that i have tried many many times to talk, to reason, to get my wife to understand the point at which she steps beyond the acceptable and becomes the problem. in her calm moments she'll listen, but it hasn't stopped it. she becomes incapable of self analysis in the moment and boom. its going off.

Back wife up when DD moans.

Fair enough. But little children often don't do things at the speed we want them to. Your wife expects DD to behave like an adult at 7YO but your wife is not behaving like an adult herself.

I'd be removing DD and comforting her the very moment your wife raises her voice. How does that make it worse? Does she follow you both and continue screaming? If so, that's absolutely despicable.

I'd be far more concerned with DDs feeling than your wife, bollocks to her, let her foam at the mouth all she wants, she should be ashamed of herself, terrifying and smacking her daughter.

to get my wife to understand the point at which she steps beyond the acceptable and becomes the problem

You can't be that busy if you know the progression of the arguments in as much detail as you document above.

its a small house, i can hear it. you seem fixated that i'm just some do sod all dad who just waits and criticises. get over it, i'm not.

I'd be removing DD and comforting her the very moment your wife raises her voice

Seriously?

So it's also a house small enough that your kids hear you telling your wife to fuck off?

If you hear it and it's a small house - back her up sooner. Don't wander in and tell her she has something urgent to do and that you'll 'deal with with it'.

My daughter - 7, who is, to be fair, a bit slack at the homework and room tidying, keeps falling foul of her mum for things like leaving her uniform in a heap. sneaking minutes on the iPad without permission, that kind of thing. all, from my perspective, normal for a 7 year old

This was a red flag^^ your wife is being reasonable to reprimand your daughter for doing the above. It sounds like you are making excuses for your DD because she is 7. This undermines your wife before any situation even arises. The wording makes your wife the bad guy straight away "keeps falling foul of her mum".

fundamentally when you are faced with emotion fuelled rage there is no right answer and eff off is as good a response as any.

No it's not.

You're being Rescue Dad and then telling your wife to fuck off in front of her daughter.

Equally, your wife is clearly stressed to smithereens and I don't condone her hitting your daughter. On the other hand, the uniform left in a heap could have been the 50th time she's asked your daughter, not the first time.

You need to back her up and have ground rules for your daughter, not "it's normal for kids to do all these things", then "Let me deal with this", then "Fuck off!"

Yes, because as soon as she's raised her voice she's lost it, the next step is screaming and then smacking. Remove the child before it escalates.

Dear god, so if your other half said 'DD I've told you once - PICK IT UP!' you would swoop in and gather up the child to 'comfort' her? Words fail me.

miss battleaxe

no sorry, i am not saying that my wife is wrong. the child is slack, seven year olds are. shall i write that How and Why line again? fall foul is an expression. don't read too much into it.

i never said i tell my wife to fuck off in front of my kids did i?

also , doesn't matter if it is the 500th time her behaviour is damaging. not to me to the kid. that is the primary concern here.

If I knew that it would almost immediately escalate into screaming abuse at, and terrifying our child, followed by smacking, yes I bloody well would.

What you described is totally different to what OP is describing. I know when DH says that, it isn't followed by a foul rant at the top of his voice, resulting in a terrified sobbing child who is then smacked.

I suspect if you swoop in to comfort at the first raising of a voice, you're going to end up with a lot more anger than if you swoop in to say 'stop it, DD, your mum has told you once'.

i never said i tell my wife to fuck off in front of my kids did i?

I thought it was a small house where every nuance of an argument can be heard though? So screaming fuck off at someone is probably going to be evident. Or do you take her elsewhere for that?

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace
wow. you keep digging for that turd don't you? will you give me any credit or am i just a man and therefore in LTB territory.

TillITook- so every parent who raises their voice at their child should have their children removed? Removed to where? To be given to quiet people who never raise their voices? No wonder some children grow up with such a huge sense of entitlement.

The OP is not perfect either i've tried screaming back at her . fundamentally when you are faced with emotion fuelled rage there is no right answer and eff off is as good a response as any

So am I wrong? Because it's not about 'digging for turds', it's about being clear what actually happens here.

Seek - I've backed that up already, I agree.

But if she then continues to lose her shit to the extent where she is emotionally, mentally and PHYSICALLY harming her child, it is completely unacceptable!

Gender swap and people would be crying LTB, ring the police, are you safe etc... Women can be just as abusive to their children as men are. Absolutely nothing excuses this womans behaviour.