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Original poster

What is the best way to have a dig at a private school parent?

231 replies

UrbanDad · 30/09/2014 17:03

"No am I being unreasonable?" here. I am totally reasonable to have a go at an otherwise liberal mate who eschews a perfectly good state secondary school to send his DD to a private school miles away. He makes all kinds of rubbish excuses about how his DD needs nurturing, the local secondary is composed entirely of the Bash Street Kids and it doesn't have enough sporting or cultural activities. It's all a load of Horlicks and he knows it - it's just about allowing his DD (and him TBH) to mix with the "right kind of people". I cannot afford private school and even if I could or my DKs could get a scholarship I wouldn't send them there - I just think social apartheid for children is wrong and it's poison for social mobility.

He says "everyone wants the best for their kids". I agree, but my point is this - even for purely selfish reasons - I also want the best for everyone's kids (after a couple of generations I suspect I will be blood-related to quite a few of them as well) rather than to purchase a privileged status for my own. That will be poison chalice for my DKs as well - what? After all I spent on you, you can't even get a decent job? - and it inculcates them with a terrible ethos of "every man for himself" and "beggar my neighbour".

Does anyone have any other suggestions how I can humiliate, lampoon and pour scorn upon him for being a sell-out, please?

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

emotionsecho · 02/10/2014 13:27

UrbanDad not all private schools are stuffed with the children of wealthy people, just as not all state schools are stuffed with a diverse mix of students from every section of society.

momb · 02/10/2014 13:27

So it's acceptable to pay separately for extracurriculalr activities that a private school may offer but not to pay for them through a private school?

My DCs are in local middle/senior school. I have friends who have chosen out of catchment school because they believe it is better for their children. I have friends who have chosen public school. We are all parents trying to do the best we can for our children. I would no more deride my friend for choosing to pay for her daughters' education than I would another friend for paying for ballet lessons or cooking from scratch every day: surely we just do the best we can.

I think that you must be a really difficult friend.

mateysmum · 02/10/2014 13:42

OP you seem to have a very slanted view of what most independent school are like. This idea that they are "ivory towers" and "not the real world" does not resemble the schools I know. They don't exist on the planet Zog.

Also the idea of getting rid of bursaries or limiting 6th form entry simply does not apply in most independent schools. Certainly not in my son's school.

You have a point about special needs, but independents often score very highly on pastoral care.

Your idea that private schools want to drain talent from the state sector I also find spurious. They don't poach pupils, people apply for places. So if a poorer child gets the opportunity of a great education at a private school, that is damaging the state sector. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

emotionsecho · 02/10/2014 13:54

Agreed mateysmum buy how could your or anyone else's experience and knowledge of independent schools be right

KleineDracheKokosnuss · 02/10/2014 14:17

Nope. I'll stick with the excellent private round the corner thanks.

In an ideal world all schools would be fantastic and allocated by lottery, with school buses to ensure all kids could get to their school despite their siblings all having to be at different schools at precisely 8:30 every day. All school children would have the time and their parents would have the money to do extra-curriculars. However, that is not going to happen any time in my lifetime and I won't destroy my DCs chances by intentionally sending them somewhere that is *.

Missunreasonable · 02/10/2014 14:51

Private schools are full of children from rich parents.

Don't forget they also have children like my own : single average earner and child on a very generous bursary.

Original poster

UrbanDad · 02/10/2014 14:55

I'm not making much headway here - so a couple of parables to explain where I'm coming from:

Imagine you have a cake to share and there are eight of you. Someone grabs half the cake and stuffs it in their mouth. Through the chomping, that person noisily accuses the others who complain of being jealous that they did not get to grab it first..

Imagine you are going to be born into this world and you have no idea what race, class you are to be, whether you are to be born rich or poor etc. What kind of education system would you establish?

OP posts:

Only1scoop · 02/10/2014 15:00

Your 'parables' are a load of 'horlicks'

Dad164 · 02/10/2014 15:05

UrbanDad

If you want a debate about state, private, grammar, faith, co-ed schools you're on the right forum, but possibly the wrong thread - Education forum is full of it.

As to your original post, whilst I have some ideas on how to "rib" your "mate", I suspect you're doing a pretty good job already - lucky him!

PS - hope it's not me .....

pearpotter · 02/10/2014 15:09

OP, I agree that private schools are wrong and in an ideal world they wouldn't exist. I don't like faith schools, academies or free schools either.

However I would never, never "lambast" a friend for seeking to do the best for their child and for picking what they thought was the best school - be it private, state, faith, academy...whatever.

hmc · 02/10/2014 15:14

Those aren't parables - look up parable and learn

AuntieStella · 02/10/2014 15:26

Surely the cake analogy would be more along the lines of:

There is a compulsory cake fund. Some people, despite there being cake for as many as want it, decide to buy their own cake and some decide to bake their own, but they still pay in to the kitty. Those who cannot buy/bake their own cake might well envy those who can choose their own, but would recognise that those who provide the funded cakes are the ones who need to kept up to the mark about the quality and variety of what is on offer. And realise that if all those who don't currently take their funded cake started to do so, there would be a lot less to go round.

Original poster

UrbanDad · 02/10/2014 15:27

Wikipedia:
A parable is a succinct, didactic story, in prose or verse, which illustrates one or more instructive lessons or principles. It differs from a fable in that fables employ animals, plants, inanimate objects, or forces of nature as characters, whereas parables have human characters. A parable is a type of analogy.

OP posts:

Dad164 · 02/10/2014 15:40

Am I the first to quote "Let them eat cake"?

Actually loving this cake analogy.

How about this

Imagine a cake. A cake that everyone gets a slice for free. Well not really for free because everyone contributes money to the chef to make the cake, but it's free to take a slice. Some people like raisins but others don't. Some complain that their slice isn't as good as someone elses, but its free so one shouldn't complain too much.

But wait! There are people who have noticed another cake is being eaten. A much smaller cake, about 7% of the size of the big free cake. They look over to the people eating that cake and ask what it's like and why don't they eat the free cake. The small cake eaters respond by saying their small cake is much nicer than the free cake but it costs them a pretty penny.

Some of the big cake eaters deny that the small cake is better but still want some anyway. Some other big cake eaters really want some of the small cake, but just can't afford it.

and so on etc etc ......

Dad164 · 02/10/2014 15:44

Why don't you buy your mate a slice of cake? Don't explain anything. Just give him a slice of cake. I think he will eventually get the point.

Original poster

UrbanDad · 02/10/2014 15:44

AuntieStella - love it, but you forgot to mention that those who buy/bake their own cake own the bakery that provides the funded cakes. As long as that is the case, they have no incentive to make nice funded cakes because they never eat them, but if they did, then they probably would.

OP posts:

emotionsecho · 02/10/2014 16:00

UrbanDad you are not making headway because you are dismissing out of hand anyone who says their experience and knowledge of private school bears no similarity to your perception of private schools. You put an exocet missile in your argument with your post about paying for extra tutors, music lessons, etc.

Also, this idea that state schools automatically provide a rich and diverse mix of people from all walks of life and backgrounds and all the students mix in and learn about each other is straight out of a fairy tale.

You are happy with what the local state school wil provide for your children, your friend feels his child will do better somewhere else, his choice to 'sell out' on his liberal education principles, but he hasn't sold out on the greatest liberal credential of all - freedom of choice, or, do you only espouse freedom of choice provided people choose what you say they should choose.

I know you will come back and say the choice of a private education shouldn't be available, but you have previously said you don't disagree with private education per se as the state cannot provide everything to all of the people all of the time, but just remember there is choice within the state system too.

If anyone is in an ivory tower patronising and sneering at all and sundry it is you.

Dad164 · 02/10/2014 16:23

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 02/10/2014 16:27

None of your parables explain why it is OK to pick on your friend. Why it is better for you to be unkind.

Only1scoop · 02/10/2014 16:32

Quite ....did you get any tips on how to 'humiliate....and pour scorn on him'?

Dad164 · 02/10/2014 16:35

Hang on. I gave clear instructions on how to pour scorn on him.

Buy him a slice of cake.

Iggi999 · 02/10/2014 17:11

One private school near me does indeed "poach" state pupils (ones who excel at rugby). Aren't all bursaries really a form of poaching? I haven't noticed any bursaries being offered to some of my high-need students with social and behavioural problems. Funny that.

Hercule · 02/10/2014 17:29

Totally agree OP but have wasted far too many precious hours on similar threads miserably banging my head against a brick wall to know that some people will never get it. The idea of being in favour of something which would be overall better for society rather than purely for yourself seems to me part and parcel of a civilised society but others don't seem to agree.

lornemalvo · 02/10/2014 17:39

Call him a Champagne Socialist.

handcream · 02/10/2014 18:06

This really isn't going anywhere is it. The view that somehow every state school offers a real life is a joke. What about the schools with tiny catchment areas with houses at £500k, where parents buy their way in, what about the parents paying tutors to help their kids pass the 11+?

What about children who are struggling and need extra help and their parents fund a tutor?

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