Do you go into the FWR ? And what's your general impression as a man ?

[MrGin]

Just that really. I have a young daughter so I'm interested in some women's issues, I find you can't generally post in there without getting accused of one thing of the other.

< prepares for glacial responses possibly followed by mass invasion >

plato.stanford.edu/search/searcher.py?query=Feminism

Many of you will probably have found this site, but I only recently discovered that it has excellent summaries re feminism. I agree that a crib sheet will always generate more disagreement than clarification but this site has helped me enormously when trying to follow conversations about different types of feminism.

I have not read everything in Stanford, however no where yet have I found a convincing argument against men being feminist. I hope my sons are anyway...

LRD

that is exactly it, I spend more time looking up the discussions than I do taking part.

Shirazyum

Thanks for that, its one that I don't have.

I don't have any truck with any arguments that men cannot have Feminist principles

I would argue that they can never possibly experience the visceral reasoning behind the feelings, though

Bogey MrG tells us that his motivation for wanting to know more about Feminism is to be a better parent to his daughter

what is yours ? That's a personal question you don't have to answer if you don't want to, of course

boney - oh, absolutely, me too!

MNsFavouriteManHater

I have written this down 8 or 9 times know and it still isn't really right but in a nut shell:-

Similar to MrGin to start with in that although I don't have a daughter I have nieces, but when I started teaching I started to see behaviour that was accepted as normal that was just wrong and I wanted to be able to explain (in depth) why it was wrong not just in a "What would you feel like if X happened to your sister" (it doesn't always work) but in a much more in depth way making them think about their actions.

There is much more to it.

I wonder if there are blogs about teachers and feminism? It seems to be one of those professions where a lot of members are saying the same things you're saying.

I just started doing a tiny bit of teaching with young adults and it is good to think that people in schools are really getting behind some of these issues - I don't think that was so common when we were at school.

I read an interesting exchange recently where RadFemHub fell out with Julie Bindel.

Now what's that all about?

Oh, yes, I heard about some of that, but not all of it.

Basically, Julie Bindel has in the past been very outspoken about her views about radical feminism and transsexualism, specifically I believe Male-to-female transsexualism. She was anti, she got a lot of flack for it.

More recently she modified her stance.

Some people on radfemhub disagreed with this and, in my impression, didn't see that she might be partly modifying her stance in the interests of getting a debate going that had descended into complete hostility, and of avoiding some really scary threats.

That's all I really know.

I'll investigate more.
I've only ever met two trans, but I suppose I wouldn't know others could have been and I wouldn't realise.

Both were male to female, and didn't seem very happy (or convincing)

I don't really get the radfem versus trans, it seems to me they'd be bigger battles to win.

I get it, but I'd rather not get into it as I think it's both incredibly sad (for both sides), and incredibly complicated.

I think the 'bigger battles' thing always depends where you stand - I think you have to realize that for someone who has gone through something as big as that, even if to you they don't seem happy, they are naturally going to feel it's a huge battle. Same with some feminists, I think, who also have lots invested.

But my view on feminism in the UK.

I think men were encouraged to take more of a hands on roll with their children, it's happening but I don't think a lot of women are ready to lose the main-carer tag.

My ex found it difficult. She was judged a lot.

Yes, I've seen that on here, women worrying that if they're not at home with the children they must be bad parents. It's an interesting one for me, because we don't have children yet but my DH really wants to be the one who stays home, because his dad did and he just likes the idea. Of course I don't know how it will work out in reality because you can never quite predict these things, but it has made me notice how slowly attitudes change.

This is completely off-topic, btw, but I was watching a programme about Amish culture the other day - it was, to me, completely off-the-wall in many ways and they had very rigid ideas of the man's role and the woman's role - but something that struck me was the dad saying that he was taking a different, less well-paid job because he felt he had to spend time with his children more. He was saying that that's how you build a relationship, lots and lots of time. It was really beautifully put and made me think.

thanks for answering Bogey, it helps when you know where people are coming from

I don't understand why you had such a hard time articulating what you meant though. You are a teacher, you want to guide the children you have influence over, of both genders, in an equitable manner. Fair play.

I think that I over think things:)

But there is a N in the name :)

eh ?

you keep calling me boGey

Its boNey :)

God, so I do

sorry about that

pmsl

So what's the current thinking on this? For me it's changed quite a bit. I don't ever post in FWR anymore, or even habitually lurk as I used to. Is it worth another go? Do chaps still post there?

Loads of men particularly fathers of daughters want to ensure fairness. I think it is inherent in most human beings. What can fathers do to help daughters (and sons for that matter)?
Don't let your wife go part time. Ensure you and she do the same jobs at home so there is no gender divide. Buy girls pen knives (I loved mine). Don't assume girls hate sport and do that stupid sexist father and son stuff which excludes girls. Girls love to climb trees and play with rope so make sure they aren't given clothes which restrict them from doing that kind of thing. Teach them that women often earn a fortune as leading business women and accountants and the like rather than girls serve and clean at home whilst men earn. Don't criticise them for characteristics which you would not criticise a boy for,. Don't go on about their looks all the time as if that is all that matters. Don't say - good girl you are pretty as if that were something they controlled or were admirable.

Erm..well thanks for that Xenia, but, for me I wasn't asking how to be a good father, as much as I agree with a bit of what you say, globally. (pen knives ).
I was just wondering about Dadsnet chaps posting in FWR. Is all.

Of course men can post in feminist threads. I spend a lot of time trying to ensure equality for men, to ensure they have as much right to stay home as their wives, to ensure after divorce they have their children half the time, for all kinds of ways men are discriminated against often in ways which actually damage women too as they get lumbered with too much domestic stuff.

Okay. You're still missing the point, I'm afraid. But thanks.