Feminism

[Huansagain]

It's been interesting reading the threads in the Feminism section over the last few days.

What does anyone think would happen if there was a feminist government?

And what if there was a radical feminist government?

I'm interested to know what changes would be made.

Obviously anyone can answer this, but as a man I thought I'd best put it in Dadsnet.

I think that before you ask what a radical feminist government would be like, you really need to acquaint yourself with radical feminist thought.

The link I am posting is a good place to start. Take your time to read it, and pay particular attention to the comments at the end. Then you can tell us what you think a radical feminist government would be like.

radicalhub.com/2011/10/04/radical-feminism-in-the-21st-century/

I'd like to see a feminist government. The older I get and, in particular, the older my children get the more I'm noticing the negative ways women are portrayed in the media and society as a whole. That's not to say that I think men are universally portrayed in a good light; nevertheless we do live in a fundamentally patriarchal society and that's not good for any of us.

I'm not sure what a radical feminist government would look like mainly because I have yet to see any consistent description of what radical feminism is. Some of the comments on the article SigmundeFraude linked to are so out there as to seem like parody. But just because some of the people commenting on that particular are total loons uncompromising in their beliefs, I don't know if they are representative of what radical feminism is really about. Judging a movement purely on its extremists is risky.

Ok, well here is an account of a radical feminist party that nearly got into government, maybe this will answer the question.

www.nationalreview.com/articles/216858/fanatical-swedish-feminists/stanley-kurtz#.

Harriet Harman is a radical feminist.

www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/lizhunt/5973517/Harriet-Harman-In-charge-but-so-out-of-touch.html

OK, so what's your view on the idea of a non-radical feminist government? Or a radical feminist government?

I think a RadFem ( which is by it's very definition extremist imo ) government would look something like Orwell's 1984 or Animal Farm. We'd all be wearing baggy grey gender neutral clothes, shaved heads, and men would be required on pain of castration ( assuming it wasn't mandatory ) to wear slogans like 'I could be a rapist' or ' I committed trauma bonding' .

It's what Communism is to Socialism. I feel more comfortable with the latter.

A Feminist government ? I'm not sure what that would look like but it sounds good in theory if it deals with inequality and objectification across the board. I'd shed no tears if society moved away from patriarchy.

How long before this thread gets taken over you think ?

Well we have a non-radical feminist government (sort of), are you asking for my views about the coalition? I don't really have a huge interest in it, although I was pretty surprised that Cameron continued with Harman's women only shortlist agenda.

A radical feminist government would be fine and dandy, provided you were a radfeminist, for the rest of us who believe in equality it would be pretty dire.

Radical feminists are not interested in equality, as Germaine Greer said 'Equality is not my game'.

Radical anything is bad news when they have power. Radical feminists are completely out of touch with the day to day lives of average people.

Do not underestimate the sway these people have.

Look very carefully into the movement before you get behind it Snorbs. There is plenty of information out there, and the 'loons' as you called them are representative of a good many radfem ideals, it's just that many aren't so publicly overt.

Not long, Mr G, not long.

< puts tin hat on >

I'd suspect most people on MN would appreciate the more 'equal' aspect of a 'feminist' govt (whatever that looks like).

Sharn't bother to post anything else as by the time I have come to the end of this sentence the thread will....have gone.........no, not actually gone ppppftfffttt!! yet.

Happy bun fighting! Stuff to do.

I was rather interested in what changes would be made.

Would it be quotas?

I don't agree that we have a feminist government. There's, what, 20+ people in the cabinet but only five or six women? Our beloved PM is the poster-child of rich male privilege. The recent cuts in benefits etc are hitting women harder than men. I could go on.

All that being said, I'm not getting behind any radical feminist movement. I haven't heard a coherent enough view of what radical feminism is as a concept to even consider supporting it. Indeed, if the websites you linked to are representative of current radical feminist thought then I think it would be extremely bad for both men and women.

But all movements have their extremists. Luckily and usually the number of extremists are very small compared to the numbers of non-loons. The web makes it easy to find the extremists but it doesn't mean they will receive anywhere near enough support to make a difference. And Harriet Harman calling for all-women shortlists is a very far cry from the radfem comments you linked to earlier.

That National Review piece you linked to reads like a Daily Mail article. "Shock horror! A tiny proportion of Swedish feminists hold extremist views therefore all Swedish feminists agree with them therefore Swedish men were only moments away from being rounded up and put in camps!!!" I'd not heard of the National Review before but a quick look at some of the articles on their website suggests it's a very right-wing, very conservative US-based publication that specialises in such shock-horror editorials. I'm not going to regard it as authoritative.

I would imagine that the first action of a feminist government would be to issue free mooncups to all women.

hoiks up dungarees

Or remove the VAT on tampons and towels for those of us who do not align well with the mooncup.

Perhaps a tax break for Bras?

A higher tax break for underwired bras, surely. Since they hurt like billyo sometimes.

Post-Natal Pile cushions on the NHS could be a real vote winner IMO.

Hmm, you could be right. Mooncup and dungarees could be messy.

Am I a false feminist for wearing underwired bras, btw? Is there data on this?

Snorbs..The fact that there are more men than women in a government makes not the slightest bit of difference to whether it's a feminist government or not.

I think that its only false feminist if its padded. Underwiring can be a bit like wearing a hair shirt so the benefits and risks provide real equality.

I am sure that should the Bra Act be passed, it will include provisos for training women to successfully remove Bras without taking off their clothes and a recommendation that they are used only for business or sporting purposes.

Tsk tsk, ladies and gents, didn't you know that the two Ronnies provided the definitive answer to this years ago.

Also, if you're dismissing every link I post, can I politely suggest that you find out for yourself then.

I strongly think that if we had equal numbers of women in positions of real power in Govt, Civil Service and at the top of firms and especially financial institutions we would have a very different kind of society that would make better decisions. We would not have had the financial crisis and we would not have such an unequal society if more women had been in power. I would welcome that because we have far too many untalented men promoted into positions for which they are supremely unqualified.

That said, if we had a society dominated by women it would be just as bad as it is now in a male dominated society but in different ways. I would not want a 'feminist Government' because I think some aspects of feminism are far to left leaning to make for effective Govt.

Men and women bring different strengths and different points of view to a situation and that is something we should embrace and make sure we have women wielding real power.

I now feel we should have quotas to make sure we get more women in senior positions in society. That makes me feel uncomfortable but I now believe that we have to do this or women will never make the contribution they shoudl and that as a society we blatantly and clearly desperatley need.