It

[eeore]

Me and the missus - sorry - DP were discussing the increasingly tedious issue of Keys and Gray yesterday, and in particular "I'll bet you were hanging out of it every night."

The missus - sorry - my DP was most insistent that the use of the word 'it' objectified the woman involved. She was less than convinced my my explanation that they were talking about an ex-girlfirend, so it hardly mattered if they called her 'it', 'looneytunes' or used the woman's name.

She wasn't having it.

So I asked her what she called my penis.

She looked a bit flumuxed for a minute, 'what do I call it?" she asked.

I pointed out that I had various names for her bits and pieces that did not involve the impersonal 'it'.... though curiously a clitorus is refered to as it (check your biology text books on that one)

I just thought I'd mention how odd it is that when the 'it' refers to is a vagina, the 'it' becomes offensive becomes somhow 'it' refers to the whole person. Yet when the 'it' refers to a penis... well it's different because it's a thingy.

Ok I'll sorry, I just wanted to share with the group. I'll go and switch the urn on.

Right who's up for the drumming workshop?

Go on then I'll let's hear some anti-men jokes, I promise I won't cry.

The Husband Store

A brand new store has just opened in New York City that sells Husbands. When women go to choose a husband, they have to follow the instructions at the entrance:

"You may visit this store ONLY ONCE! There are 6 floors and the value of the products increase as you ascend the flights. You may choose any item from a particular floor or may choose to go up to the next floor, but you CANNOT go back down except to exit the building!"

So, a woman goes to the Husband Store to find a husband.

The 1st floor sign reads: Floor 1 - These men have jobs.

The 2nd floor sign reads: Floor 2 - These men Have Jobs and Love Kids.

The 3rd floor sign reads: Floor 3 - These men Have Jobs, Love Kids and are extremely good looking.

"Wow," she thinks, but feels compelled to keep going.

She goes to the 4th floor and The sign reads: Floor 4 - These men Have Jobs, Love Kids, are Drop-dead Good Looking and Help with Housework.

"Oh, mercy me!" she exclaims, "I can hardly stand it!" Still, she goes to the 5th floor and The sign reads: Floor 5 - These men Have Jobs, Love Kids, are Drop-dead Gorgeous, help with Housework and Have A Strong Romantic Streak.

She is so tempted to stay, but she goes to the 6th floor and the sign reads:

Floor 6 - You are visitor 31,456,012 to this floor. There are no men on this floor. This floor exists solely as proof that women are impossible to please. Thank you for shopping at the Husband Store.

To avoid gender bias charges, the store's owner opens a New Wives store just across the street.

The 1st floor has wives who love sex.

The 2nd floor has wives who love sex and have money.

The 3rd through 6th floors have been visited.

I think you mean "The 3rd through 6th floors have NEVER been visited," Truckulente.

Just to show men sometimes make mistakes.

And you weren't satisfied were you?

The Husband Store

A brand new store has just opened in New York City that sells Husbands. When women go to choose a husband, they have to follow the instructions at the entrance:

"You may visit this store ONLY ONCE! There are 6 floors and the value of the products increase as you ascend the flights. You may choose any item from a particular floor or may choose to go up to the next floor, but you CANNOT go back down except to exit the building!"

So, a woman goes to the Husband Store to find a husband.

The 1st floor sign reads: Floor 1 - These men have jobs.

The 2nd floor sign reads: Floor 2 - These men Have Jobs and Love Kids.

The 3rd floor sign reads: Floor 3 - These men Have Jobs, Love Kids and are extremely good looking.

"Wow," she thinks, but feels compelled to keep going.

She goes to the 4th floor and The sign reads: Floor 4 - These men Have Jobs, Love Kids, are Drop-dead Good Looking and Help with Housework.

"Oh, mercy me!" she exclaims, "I can hardly stand it!" Still, she goes to the 5th floor and The sign reads: Floor 5 - These men Have Jobs, Love Kids, are Drop-dead Gorgeous, help with Housework and Have A Strong Romantic Streak.I

She is so tempted to stay, but she goes to the 6th floor and the sign reads:

Floor 6 - You are visitor 31,456,012 to this floor. There are no men on this floor. This floor exists solely as proof that women are impossible to please. Thank you for shopping at the Husband Store.

To avoid gender bias charges, the store's owner opens a New Wives store just across the street.

The 1st floor has wives who love sex.

The 2nd floor has wives who love sex and have money.

The 3rd through 6th floors have never been visited.

Butterbur- is that from the plant or Lord of the Rings?

Of it's LOTR you can become an honorary geek man.

Both. I am actually a massive LoTR geekfan.

In fact I've been a fully paid up geek since before the word was invented.

Well, I've a strong hint of geek running through me too.

Remember Tolkien can be hobbit forming.

oh truck......

truckulente

"eeore- are you a woman sent in undercover to stir things up? I may have to set a male test to check."

Why are women the only one's on Dadsnet that are free to have opinions? Are women the only one's who can see sexism? Or able/entitled to call sexual harrassment what it is.

Let me quote UnqietDad from another thread:

"I have been here 4 years and Dadsnet has always been a bit like a quiet, empty bar with the odd bloke nursing a pint, some football on a screen in the corner, a buxom barmaid looking surly...

...and a loud, wild, hilarious party of mostly women going on in the room next door.

Occasionally a tipsy woman will stagger in through the doors, clutching a bottle, wearing a party hat and blowing a party vuvuzela. She will then laugh uproariously at us, say what a bunch of saddos we are in here and invite us to come in and join the proper place if we have the balls. She will then slosh and teeter her way back through the door again, cackling madly."

Bit sad really.

Or this from Pan in the football thread - which perhaps for sexist reasons, perhaps not - seems about the only place that there is any conversation between Dads at all...

"so few men? It's probably the site title, self-image, and poss. getting a challenging reception when they do post if it isn't couched in a way palatable to a few other female posters. It can get a bit steamy in here, but in a bad way. We can run like startled fawns round here."

What's not sexist about that? A forum for dads to discuss being dads, and they are too frightened to speak because of the intervention of women.

Under the Equality act this is the definition of sexual harrassment. I thought Mumsnet was supposed to campaign about such issues - seemingly it's all a joke as the postings of BigFatSexistWoman shows.

Is it any wonder that men who might potentially want to join the forum don't bother?

I only joined Mumsnet because as the father of a stillborn daughter I wanted to express my support for the campaign about the Eastenders storylines. And having the log in it seemed a shame to waste it. Seeing this forum exists, and loving my kids, I thought it would be nice to chat with other dads. I'm not interested in the bitchfest that is the rest of Mumsnet. And I don't see any reason why Dadsnet should have to go the same way, simply because it is the culture of the website.

Belfast bloke, you posed the question

"eeore, where is the "discussion derailed by sexism and sexual harrassment..." You posted about an interpretation that you said was debateable. Most people do not think it it's debateable. You say they're derailing the thread."

Who tried to debate it? All I saw was people sheeplike repeating what they have read in the papers.

I can't remember which feminist said it but I have always liked this quote, which I'll misquote, "there is only one way to be an Alpha male, but a thousand ways to be a beta male - and all of them more interesting."

So there - call it a rant, call it a declaration of independence - ignore it. Frankly I don't care.

But isn't it time that Dadsnet became dad friendly?

how on earth do you walk with that massive chip on your shoulder?

eeore. All of that must have taken quite a while, and I for one am impressed by your application to the task of research!As per the breast feed thread.

I think that in very dry terms you may be exactly right. BUT, I have found that men on MN, in DN or not, have to grow a thick skin over time and not respond to every slight that is being perceived to have been made.
Also, we are in a largely female chamber, and you will get a degree of hostility from some females who wish this place to be men-free as they say they have to put up with blokes in RL too often doing wanky things.

Stick around. To do this will be much more likely and pleasureable IF you learn to ignore stuff that riles you. IT's probably posted to rile you so rise gracefully above it and focus on what is stimulating and intersting rather than what annoys you?

eg. Ignore AF -
I don't mean all the time, just for that one.

Afternoon AF!!

anybody, of any gender, who posted all that "evidence" from other threads about how crap MN is would be laughed right outta here and told to get a life

and rightly so....

hello, Pan

All right eeore, I'll debate the term if you wish:

I'm not entirely sure I understand your argument, but because in your OP you discussed calling a penis "it", I believe your argument to be distinguishing between Redknapp's ex-girlfriend (the person) and the ex's pussy/fanny/vulva/fanjo (the genitals).

Most people think that Keys was calling Redknapp's ex "it". They were talking about her, and he suddenly said, "Did you smash it?" and later, "you were hanging out the back of it".

James Corden made a similar joke about fucking Kiera Knightley, when he said at an awards ceremony that he was "hanging out the back of her". I think this is what Keys was referring to, but he changed it to objectify the woman even more.

In any case, I'm not sure your OP was calling for the full debate, seeing as you say, " they were talking about an ex-girlfirend, so it hardly mattered if they called her 'it', 'looneytunes' or used the woman's name."

That statement objectifies her nicely, just like Richard Keys.

Eeore, as you are so fixated on Dadsnet rather than Mumsnet, may I point you in the direction of Dadsnet.net This seems a little more up your street - especially as I had not noticed the sentence BelfastBloke picked up on: "they were talking about an ex-girlfirend, so it hardly mattered if they called her 'it', 'looneytunes' or used the woman's name."

I am sure you will be made to feel very welcome there

What a dickhead

Rind - who died and made you god of where and how people can post round here?

as for posting a thoroughly objectionable image of Sian M. - thanks for that as well.

who is a dickhead, truck ?

pan, just FYI, the OP was telling me how to reply just a few short posts ago

stop defending this fella on this thread

he seems ok on others...but he's looking like a bit of a whinger on this one

Do you know what Pan. I have far far fucking more important things to respond to than a shitty comment like that thank you. Like my fucking husband who is dying. So fuck off and good night.

AF - not defending eeore - sure he can do that for himself. Just reminding Rind re people posting where they wish to without her butting in and telling them whats what, - and that picture wasn't something I'd want to see anywhere, never mind on MN.

No need to swear Rind. But that's your style obviously.

Pan...did you defend my right to post how I see fit ?

I know you think I can look after myself too

but why didn't you pull him up on telling me to be "constructive" ?

usually telling someone to be "constructive" is otherspeak for "agree with me, you thick person"

be consistent, at least