It

[eeore]

Me and the missus - sorry - DP were discussing the increasingly tedious issue of Keys and Gray yesterday, and in particular "I'll bet you were hanging out of it every night."

The missus - sorry - my DP was most insistent that the use of the word 'it' objectified the woman involved. She was less than convinced my my explanation that they were talking about an ex-girlfirend, so it hardly mattered if they called her 'it', 'looneytunes' or used the woman's name.

She wasn't having it.

So I asked her what she called my penis.

She looked a bit flumuxed for a minute, 'what do I call it?" she asked.

I pointed out that I had various names for her bits and pieces that did not involve the impersonal 'it'.... though curiously a clitorus is refered to as it (check your biology text books on that one)

I just thought I'd mention how odd it is that when the 'it' refers to is a vagina, the 'it' becomes offensive becomes somhow 'it' refers to the whole person. Yet when the 'it' refers to a penis... well it's different because it's a thingy.

Ok I'll sorry, I just wanted to share with the group. I'll go and switch the urn on.

Right who's up for the drumming workshop?

So, eeore, you deliberately posted a "challenging" OP, then get a bit arsey when people reply in kind ?

Telling me how to post is a bit "off" wouldn't you say ?

No not in this case OP, keys clearly said 'it' in reference to the woman rather than a part of her.

AnyFucker

Arsey? Have I told you to STFU, or called you a moron? or whatever?

But leaving that aside, let's wait and see if any men wish to engage in the discussion about the objectification of men, and sexism - and whether the current defintions/tropes/boundaries which apply to women, also apply to men.

Gosh it's like being the editor of the Guardian Women's page circa 1973... lol

Saltatrix

As I say that is debatable. You say it is. I am not sure.

eeore, I have just seen the footage for the first time and they were discussing a specific woman, not her cunt. Therefore, Keys asking Rednapp firstly if he had 'smashed it' and then stated that if Rednapp had been anywhere near her he'd have bet that Rednapp would have been 'hanging out of it every night' refers to the woman and not to her cunt.

Your argument carries no weight - you refer to your penis as 'it' when describing err, it. If I went to my doctor's to say I had a problem with my vagina, I would refer to said vagina as 'it', as would my GP most likely.

Me "GP, I have a problem with my vagina."

GP "Ok, what seems to be the problem with it"

Me "well, it..." you get the message.

However, I would not expect my GP to refer to me as an it.

Rednapp looked extremely uncomfortable, as did Souness and Gullit hid behind his Blackberry. It was totally inappropriate and extremely offensive.

I believe Keyes went on to TalkSport the other day to defend his position. One of his lines of defense was that it was usual dressing room banter. As far as I know this 53 year old man has had a career in journalism, not football.

Rindercilla

In your opinion.

It is particularly offensive to refer to having sex with a part of a person's body rather than the person. If this is not obvious, you are not doing it right.

In my opinion, Richard Keyes was totally inappropriate and extremely offensive, yes.

In my opinion, Richard Keyes objectified a woman, yes.

In my opinion, Richard Keyes is a twat, yes.

And in my opinion you have wandered off topic and are ranting.

Can anyone link to this conversation? I'm having problems understanding what "hanging out of it every night" means without context.

eeyore, you asked a question. I believe I answered it. You call it ranting, I call it a reasonable response to your post when you stated it was my opinion, when I was entirely 'on topic'

Butterbur,

BB..."hanging out of it" is a term used by particularly juvenile/misogynistic/teenage/arrogant/inadequate men to mean you have your dick in a woman (object)

it displays a particular disregard for the status of women as anything other than a hole to fuck

I hate phrases like that eg the Inbetweeners "I'm going to get a bit of clunge".

Anything that reduces a woman to her genitals, and disregards her as person is disgusting, and men have been getting away with it for far too long.

What he said was offensive but that's not the main point, he was speaking to a couple of guys off air (even though the others looked uncomfortable) and it's not any worse than what is said on loose women about men. So was it stupid? yes but should he get a witch hunt after him because of it? I don't think so not about that anyway. The one I have problems with is the comments made about the female referee.

I think the OP is a either misunderstanding the statement of Keys, on salty's premise of It being the woman, OR, is being clumsily provocative in a bit of a pointless manner.

The other tragic thing is Keys fantasising about what a younger, fitter attractive bloke may be doing in his private life re sex acts - tragic speculation coming from a much older bloke with bad attitudes growling " goo-on my son!" in a nasty little way.

And the offenses are multi-layered? The obs. on the ref. were undermining in a way that belittles any woman in a position of professionalism and authority, whilst the "smash" obs. is demeaning to all women in an intimate sexual way. What a guy.

Wonder if this episode will deal a mighty blow against sexism in football AND give strength to people feeling oppressed simply for who they are in other workplaces.

forgot to add, all of this reveals that it's bell-like clear that sexism is a man's problem.

I think Keys and Gray were out of order and hopefully this will be continued into all industries.

As for being reduced to body parts, what about the Is size important threads?

Yet another Dadsnet discussion derailed by sexism and sexual harrassment... heyho...

eeore- are you a woman sent in undercover to stir things up?

I may have to set a male test to check.

eeore, where is the "discussion derailed by sexism and sexual harrassment..."

You posted about an interpretation that you said was debateable. Most people do not think it it's debateable. You say they're derailing the thread.

What's in the male test?

It'd have to be done in real time to avoid cheating.
I reckon a series of What would you do?

Your best friend Steve phones you up, he's really upset and wants to talk. Do you?

A- Talk to him about his feelings , as feelings are always important.

B- Tell him to get his drinking trousers on, meet in the pub in half an hour, get pissed and go for a curry.

C- Ask your wife for advice.

An answer of A B or C would prove the responder is female.

The real answer is:

D- No friend would phone and ask to talk about being upset.

Of course I've given the game away now by Mansplaining all over the place.

Actually there is truth in that rarely will a guy actually say he is upset friends will just pick up on his down mood and do option B.

I failed.

eeyore is a right troll.