Feminism

[slightreturn]

Please feel free to express your views honestly re; Feninism.
What to men really think about it?

Where are all these people who attack men for being men? I have been on the mumsnet feminist board since it started and have read it regularly and have not seen this.

Yes Raoul Moat was never called bitter, was he? Not that I recall anyway.

And Jeremy Clarkson is never called strident. For some reason.

msrisotto - you do, on occassion, have the odd jibe of 'well you would say that, you're a bloke' or 'what can you possibly know about it?' - and the vast generalisations we sometimes have - MNers magnifying their own dhs or dps failings and then someone else cropping up with the 'all men do that' kind of stuff.
Maybe not 'attacking' as it were but chosing to disregard the whole gender.
IT's just annoying rather than anything else. IYSWIM

certainly true that that happens Pan, but then on MN IME it's usually the feminists who try to challenge the stereotypes....

Yes, I agree that that is annoying, and, I would argue, more damaging to the feminist cause in an insidious way than a few well-read and strongly opinionated feminists making their points quite firmly.

Yes, agree, not so much from feminists. Doesn't mean it doesn't damage the cause of feminism, though.

other possible "I am a feminist (man)" barriers:

• I will only be a feminist when every woman is, why should I stick up for them whe nthey don't ALL stick up for themselves

• how can I be a feminist when I 'fancy' every fanciable woman I meet? That's inconsistent

• she says she is a feminist yet she wears lipstick and nice heels,I am confused.

• I like doing manly things, so there is a confusion about where I stop doing them and start being a 'feminist'.

I am pretty sure tho' habbibu and StayFrosty that it is taken in blokes strides on here - we 'know' its a female chamber - the reverse of yous going on some male site would be received with a more wary and sinister tone. Probably.

Yes, but I don't like it - I'd never talk about DH like that as I think it's disrespectful and disloyal - same way I'd hate him mocking me for some "female" trait. Which he's never done, and I can't imagine him doing. It really irks me.

God yes, that "oh all men do that" thing.

I don't think I've ever seen it said by feminists. We have a much higher opinion of men than the anti-feminist "all men are bastards, what d'you expect, you can't expect anything better" brigade. And then they have the cheek to call us man-haters.

ha! She's so hot she's making me sexist!

Pan - i've not said those things. If some things I have said have come across that way then it was unintended.

I'ma bit shocked by that though because I can't think of any instances personally.

Oh. yes, good point. I wasn't thinking of those particular discussions - more where there's just a pre-conceived notion that "men are silly" - I'm irked by women who do this as it seems to me part and parcel, of the kind of woman who says she doesn't want to be a feminist because feminists are all strident and rock the boat. Argh. not making point well - getting tired.

well it arises from the same belief, which is Men And Women Are Naturally Different - so evidently 1. feminists are clearly just wasting their time and 2. men naturally like porn and are no good at cleaning.

noooo! Not you mrs - in general, "one comes across them" - and not on the feminist board. V. sorry for the misunderstanding

Oh phew, thanks for clarifying!

BeenBeta wrote - "I was told that all I could be was sympathetic and to shut up and listen."

Really? I think you are paraphrasing rather than quoting, but you are entitled to read whatever you like into what has or hasn't been written. To cry foul over things that weren't said to you by feminists is not very constructive.

Many of the reasons for male - female misunderstanding causing men to be offended by feminists don't seem to apply to the women who are also offended.

Not all the men who post in the Feminism section reveal that they are male. They would therefore not be attacked for "being a man".

I think any harsh words handed out to the offended men and women are mainly due to the perceived anti-feminist content of the post. As there is no single feminist viewpoint (such as the non-existent Mumsnet feminist party line), there are also multiple ways a statement can be anti-feminist. Any feminist is entitled to regard the opinion of another poster as anti-feminist, when a post does not fit with their own feminist beliefs. Problems arise when the offended person mistakenly believes that they have been branded "anti-feminist" or "misogynist" by the entire feminist movement. Sometimes, there is an element of deliberately looking for offence and then using it to dramatically disengage from the debate.

The one or two feminists in the Feminism section who label others as "anti-feminist" on a regular basis are very consistent and predictable in their behaviour. What really surprises me is how consistent and predictable the behaviour of the offended party turns out to be. It's like they're acting out a pre-defined script. I would expect much, much more natural variation in their reactions.

Just to clarify a point in my previous post,

Not all the men who post in the Feminism section initially reveal that they are male, but they later state their sex after receiving criticism of their anti-feminist opinion.

I could take being accused of being anti-feminist. I don't recall having been accused of such a thing and I don't believe that I am but I wouldn't take serious offence if someone did. And if someone could give a coherent reason why they thought I was being anti-feminist then I'd listen.

Similarly, I could take being accused of being sexist - having grown up as a man in a patriarchal society I'd be amazed if I didn't still have some unconscious prejudices along those lines. If someone said "Actually, Snorbs, you may not have realised it but what you just said was sexist because..." then I would genuinely pay attention and give it serious thought.

I do strongly object to being called a misogynist though. That's flat-out wrong (I don't hate anyone let alone all women) and deeply offensive to me.