inadequately lit cyclists?

[MipMipMip]

Seriously, I'm getting fed up of people dressed in dark clothes. If they do have lights it's usually just a small one that can be easily hidden. The other day there was a woman dressed in black, no rear light and a dark child's seat (fortunately no child). Would it be so hard to wear a reflective top and put some reflectors on the back of the child seat?

If you get hit by a car even if you're badly dressed it will be the driver's fault. They should of course be looking out but you can make it easier for them. And you'll be the one in pain - surely people want to avoid that?!

Don't even get me started on the inability to use bells when someone is in front of cyclists on a path - pedestrians aren't psychic!

I think this thread is a good argument for licensing cyclists! Cyclists should be held accountable the same way other vehicle operators are. Perhaps we would all get on better!

Apparently (according to this expert) flashing lights are easier for most people to see - [http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/]

Any car driver who hits a pedestrian or cyclist is always partly at fault because they have chosen to drive a ton of metal as their mode of transport. If they decided to walk, cycle, get the bus or train or not go at all, the accident would not have been so severe (and most likely would have been avoided).

Even if you don't see (through no fault of your own) the unlit teenage cyclist who darts across the road without looking and run him over, if you hadn't chosen to drive a car, the accident would have been avoided.

Not to mention the fumes caused by cars that make the environment worse for us all, the parking which obstructs our streets, the high environmental costs of making the cars, and the fact that investment in roads diverts funding from environmentally sustainable and healthier modes of transport.

Drivers should bear this in mind before coming over all sanctimonious!

And if the unlit teenage cyclist was wearing high vis and had proper lights and had taken responsibilty for their own actions by not darting across the road they wouldn't GET HIT would they!

Ok carefreeeee, do you plan to start delivering all the goods in the uk on the back of your bicycle or ferry everyone to work on buses etc? Or put out fire/ save ppls lives etc etc etc.. all these things needs vehicles.

This thread is nothing to do with cars or other evil terrible vehicles, this thread is about cyclists taking responsibility in dark mornings and evenings to "make" themselves more visible to other ppl on the road, including other cyclists who actually bother to make themselves seen.

It's not rocket science, hell it isn't even brain surgery.

(oh, and I've been hit at least 3 times by cyclists, one which bruised me so badly I couldn't walk for a week and he wasn't even going that fast!)

I think this thread is a good argument for licensing cyclists!

Every time this gets suggested, it gets dropped again for the simple reason that virtually all cyclists already hold a driving licence, so the cost of licensing would be disproportionate (and who's going to take on responsibility for issuing a licence to a ten year old?)

There are utter twazzocks amongst our population, some are pushing past disabled people to cram themselves onto the bus, some are hiding behind the Metro so they can pretend they haven't seen the heavily pregnant woman on the tube, some are drinking heavily on aircraft, some are using their phones or parking for "just a moment" on double yellows in their cars and some cyclists are - apparently - hoodie-rat lycra-louts completely invisible with dazzlingly bright flashing lights jumping red lights on the pavement.

The problem isn't a mode of transport, the problem is dickheads.

If I'm going to encounter a dickhead I'd rather they were being a dickhead on a bike than while driving half a ton of metal.

www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/if-you-re-going-to-prang-a-car-it-s-not-a-good-idea-to-crash-into-a-police-vehicle/story-29920827-detail/story.html

This parked car got hit from behind, probaly the driver of the car didn't see it as not visable enough.

The onus is on a driver to see other Rd users and however they are lite will not define whether they are hit -its the drivers that need to look

Ivykat,
Are you seriously suggesting tgat a cyclist has no responsibility for their own safety on the road?
How positively daft can you get!
All road users are responsible for road safety and furthermore jointly accountable for their actions too.

Common sense is if you drive a car you need to drive carefully otherwise you may injure or kill another person. 1.2 million deaths world wide are caused by uncareful drivers, common sense would be to concentrate efforts on the cause if deaths not the victims.

98% of cyclists drive cars so logic would be they aren't against cars as they own and drive cars.

Don't even get me started on the inability to use bells when someone is in front of cyclists on a path - pedestrians aren't psychic

I hate people dinging their bell at me . It shouts "get out of my way". What's wrong with a simple "excuse me please".

I'd quite like a proper car horn on my bike, as a bell is pointless to warn a car of your presence.

I don't disagree with cyclists needing to be better lit up - but so do pedestrians. I was out running the other evening (fairly well lit with flashing laces on my shoes and some hi-vis) and nearly collided with a lady walking towards me who was all in grey.

We have the ones on folding bikes near us too. They get off the trains and as someone said, are in dark suits and have nothing. A small reflective stripe or hi-vis vest is very light to carry and the lights should be on the bike.

People also need to realise that bright colours only work in the daylight. You need hi-vis reflective clothes at night.

I don't however like the really bright lights that some cyclists use, they blind you. Often there are too many lights on the road, less can be more.

It's not an either or though.

Of course car drivers should take care but that doesn't mean other road users shouldn't take responsibility for their own safety too.

I don't think anyone has said car drivers shouldn't take care have they? What has been said is if another road user isn't wel lit then that makes it much harder for them to be seen so increases the chances of them being hit.

Engineers thumb

Should victims of crime behaving within the law be reasonable for assisting preventing crimes against them?

Isn't well lit? Are they kit or not?

There is a problem with millions of people being killed on roads each year, more people have died in the last 10 years by drivers than the entire Ww1 yet we ignore this and focus energy on telling people they need to make sure they stay safe against the car drivers.

The focus needs to be on making drivers drive better and the proof of this is in the number of deaths they cause

I rode a push-bike every day for many years and have to say never rode on a pavement. You are putting vulnerable pedestrians in danger (children/frail people/elderly etc etc

If there are any on the pavement, perhaps. But if the pavement is empty for miles, then why not use it? There is a small section of busy road that I need to navigate to get home. Instead of cycling on it and doing a dangerous right turn I go onto the pavement for 75m or so. If a pedestrian comes, I get off and walk around them . It really isn't a problem.

What is a problem is when cyclists use a busy pavement to cycle along when there is a CYCLE PATH right next to them. I have seen this in London next to the Cycle Superhighway (which is fantastic by the way, even the MAMILs use it and stay off the roads).

The flashing lights drive me nuts! Just why?! A good decent sized light front and rear and reflective clothes are the best - easily seen amd nothing designed to blind other road users.

In 2001 I was hit by a cyclist who was riding on the pavement without lights, in the dark. It was a winding uphill pavement and he came down and around a corner at speed and hit me. I had to go to hospital and ended up 5 weeks off work due to this.
He rode off, it was his fault!
I get insanely furious when I see cyclists on pavements at night, the majority of them are not cycling on the road because they have no bike lights.

What does my nut is drivers on mobile phones, it doesn't matter how much high vis other Rd users if a driver is on the phone and not looking. It's not even expensive to get hands free - £50 quid, I got a half decent one that I can answer by touching the sun visor and end call touching sun visor. Most smart phones cost in the region of 10x that.

This is my first post and I expect to get flamed!
Mipmipmip, you sound like you are describing me in your opening post! I do the school run with my child on their bike and my toddler (when I'm not working) in the child seat. We ride on the path because the road is so dangerous and my 10 year old gets nervous on the road. Even when walking on the path the cars are going quite fast and feel quite close to the path hence not wanting to ride the bikes on the road. We are very mindful of pedestrians and sometimes we do sit behind them as we don't want to appear rude or make people jump (we like to be considerate of others unlike some people) we always say thank you if people move across for us.
The other night, a work day for me I finished later then expected and did not have my lights etc and it was dusk. I ended up on the road for about 2 minutes as there were pedestrians on the path and I needed to get home to get my children from my parents! I am very mindful of my surroundings and took full responsibility for my actions and would never ride on the road like that with my toddler on the back, it's bad enough that I felt so guilty about riding on the path today because of this post that I rode on the road with my toddler on the back. I have now brought more hi vis bits and lights which do flash but also stay on!
I also want to add that we always slow down for people are very observant of what's going on in the direction we are going. Shame that some dog walkers/ pedestrians aren't!!!

Ivykat,
The use of mobile phones whilst driving is not acceptable. But neither I'd failure to accept responsibility for your own safety and the safety of those around you. This includes cyclists!
As to your other point... yes we should each do all we can reasonably do to prevent ourselves being victims of crime, that's just common sense. Unfortunately what's reasonably practicable sometimes isn't enough... que deliberate misunderstanding!

Can we just take a minute to differentiate between pavements and shared use paths? All round where I live, the pavements are designated as shared use, with blue signs showing a bike and a pedestrian. Some have lines down the middle, some don't. I got harangued by woman one day, who just started yelling at my about how I should be on the road as I passed. She was a bit put out when I stopped and explained I was as entitled to be there as she was as they were all shared use, and pointed out the signs to her. My point is, sometimes we're allowed to be on the 'pavements', you just might not realise that they are shared use.

Another cyclists bashing thread from the mumsnet midle englanders. Sometimes I find it hard to tell the difference between MN and the daily mail. At least one country's got it right 1010uk.org/happeningcopenhagen-officially-has-more-bikes-than-cars

but do tell them that you can hardly see them eg wind your window down at a junction and speak to them.

Last time I tried that I got called a cunt - so I won't be bothering again.

The flashing lights drive me nuts! Just why?!

Because they are more visible. HTH. I'd get your eyes checked if a flashing light powered by, at best, a rechargable battery pack is blinding you.