inadequately lit cyclists?

[MipMipMip]

Seriously, I'm getting fed up of people dressed in dark clothes. If they do have lights it's usually just a small one that can be easily hidden. The other day there was a woman dressed in black, no rear light and a dark child's seat (fortunately no child). Would it be so hard to wear a reflective top and put some reflectors on the back of the child seat?

If you get hit by a car even if you're badly dressed it will be the driver's fault. They should of course be looking out but you can make it easier for them. And you'll be the one in pain - surely people want to avoid that?!

Don't even get me started on the inability to use bells when someone is in front of cyclists on a path - pedestrians aren't psychic!

[NotTodayThanks2]

NBN - you simply can't accept being wrong, can you?

And good for you being lucky enough re not riding on any pavement. That isn't everyone's experience.

[NotTodayThanks2]

Peds also choose to wander across cycle paths without looking. Fairly common.

[engineersthumb]

Not Today,
You sound just like one of the arrogant cyclists that cause so many problems. I happen to cycle and there is no excuse to not use cycle paths when provided. Also badly adjusted cycle lights do dazzle, that's why head lights are aligned and checked annually.
What annoys me is the sense of total entitlement to endanger and inconvenience other road users, just because you are on a bike does not make you right.
Also the penalty for riding on a foot path may be discretionary the offense however is not... so looks though you're wrong there too!

[NotTodayThanks2]

and you sound like a right pain in the arse driver know-it-all who 'claims' to ride but probs hasn't since you were about 8. Otherwise you'd know better.

Pavement riding? Discretionary. Whatever.

[megletthesecond]

Ugh. Those flashy lights make cyclists so hard to follow. I'd prefer a static and flashy light tbh.

I cycle but only on cycle paths or empty paths. Don't trust drivers one bit (and I am one), a cyclist will come off worse. Our road network needs some serious investment in safe cycle routes.

[DodoRevival]

When I failed my driving test recently it was because I was 'over cautious about a cyclist'

Go figure.

(I met two cyclist on my test: one approaching my the wrong way down a narrow one way street so I stopped and let them pass and the other I drove slowly behind as I couldn't pass her without moveing into the opposite lane, which I couldn't do straight away due to other cars being in it.)

On the topic of cyclist in dark clothing what I don't understand is those that are adults chances are they drive too so must understand who invisible cyclist can be unless they are very close.

Unless all cyclist as like me and can't seem to pass their test!!!

[Yourface]

When I was a student...20 years ago I cycled round everywhere in Manchester sans light. I didn't drive at the time. I had no idea how invisible I was. Stupid I know. I learnt to drive at 26 and it was a revelation! I was very lucky to come to no harm,

People occasionally shouted at me from cars that I should get lights but I genuinely assumed they were being twats rather than concerned.

If you are a driver point out non lit up cyclists to your kids, so they can appreciate how invisible cyclists really are.

[BippityBoppityBullshit]

Cyclists have a duty to be safe road users. A little old lady waiting to cross a road at night is likely to see a car with headlights, or one of the PPs lit up by a Christmas tree - but a cyclist whizzing along all in black with no lights or reflective gear? Not a chance - and if the cyclist hits her then it could result in serious injury or death for both of them.

When I get in my car I expect other car drivers to drive safely, to look out for me on roundabouts, to check their mirrors before making a maneouvre etc. But it doesn't stop me from taking extra precautions to protect myself - making sure my lights are on, putting my seatbelt on, having my airbags on and my DD strapped into a safe car seat. Why wouldn't you want to take similar precautions as a cyclist?

Being completely blunt if you are hit by a car when wearing all black and no lights it doesn't really matter if you have the moral high ground that the car driver should have seen you if you are dead.

[NoBetterName]

Also the penalty for riding on a foot path may be discretionary the offense however is not... so looks though you're wrong there too!

exactly what I've been trying to say, but some people fail to comprehend the difference.

NotTodayThanks2, you sound like you've got a massive chip on your shoulder. You just carry on cycling on the pavement and putting vulnerable pedestrians in danger (whilst wearing full protective gear no doubt) because the fact you're too scared to use the road makes you think you are entitled.

[RavenclawRemedials]

Dodo your scenario makes me think that all driving tests should be dashcam-recorded and borderline decisions like that made subject to appeal/review. It would certainly make examiners more accountable for their decisions.

[DodoRevival]

RavenclawRemedials, me too. Honestly I'm still smarting- I so desperately needed to have passed my test too (plus I really could do without the expense!)

[WLF46]

YANBU. Cyclists are legally required to have lights on after dark, but like so many rules there are many who don't obey them. (Cycling on the pavement - illegal. Jumping the lights - illegal.)

Unfortunately as a rule, cyclists are very selfish creatures. The very nature of cycling lends itself to a solitary and selfish type of person. They feel that they have every right to do what they like, but no responsibility to others.

The fact is, whenever a cyclist is killed or injured, it is more likely to be their own fault than that of a motorist or pedestrian. This is not how the law treats it, but the law is not always correct. Cyclists put themselves into risky positions too often and demand that others concede to them. When they don't the consequences are usually worse for the cyclist, but the other party is usually the one who gets the blame.

Take the case of this man - this is the sort of person that rides a bike!

[mudandmayhem01]

Unfortunately as a rule motorists are very selfish creatures. The very nature of driving lends itself to a solitary and selfish type of person...... Honestly listen to yourself and think beyond your own experience.

[Tanith]

Reminds me of a quote from a motorcycling manual:
"Better a prat decked out like a Christmas tree than a superhero on crutches!"

[5to2]

Also pedestrians don't realise how invisible they are. There are no street lights where we live and people walk down a country lane with no pavement near me with dark coats, no torch and no reflective strips. As I'm local I turn in carefully and drive slowly. But it's also a cut through and some drivers don't drive so carefully.

[DodoRevival]

Cyclists are the selfish ones!!
Drivers are the selfish ones!!
Pedestrians are the selfish ones!!

Brilliant. Actually it's probably true though everyone is selfish as road usage isn't insular, safety should be symbiotic and benifical to all parties.

Look out for everyone, and help other by making yourself visable.

Biggest problem in my humble opinion is all road users feel they should have priority

a driver needs to get to where ever, it's very very important don't you know so must pass that cyclist NOW. It's fine they'll just have to move over.

a cyclist needs to get to where ever, it's very important don't you know so must go though that crossing despite that red light. It'll be fine, they'll just have to give way to me.

And so on

Cop on everyone -chances are it's not you're part to blame.

[KidLorneRoll]

"Unfortunately as a rule, cyclists are very selfish creatures. The very nature of cycling lends itself to a solitary and selfish type of person. They feel that they have every right to do what they like, but no responsibility to others."

Yeah, that's a load of fucking bollocks. As a motorist, not a cyclist: Piss off.

Do you know what cyclists are, as a rule? People. People trying to get from A to B. An arsehole on a bike is an arsehole when off a bike, and most likely an arsehole the following day when they drive to work because it's raining.

Yes, some cyclists aren't very sensible. Neither are some motorists, but what makes you a dick is generalising about every member of a group based on the actions of a few.

[Sirzy]

Anyone using the roads in the dark should make sure they are lit. For their own safety and that of others. Basic common sense surely?

I am a runner and wouldn't dream of running in the dark without a light and reflective gear.

[engineersthumb]

Not Today,
I think you just made my point for me!

[polarpercy]

engineersthumb there are often a number of reasons for not using a cycle path, what an inane statement. Round here the paths are shared use with pedestrians seemingly unaware, badly maintained and require cyclists to go way out of their way when it comes to roundabouts or junctions.

Perhaps a better safer compromise is for those in charge of fast moving metal machines to exercise the care that is expected when they are granted a licence.

[polarpercy]

WLF46 ha ha ha, yes of course all the car drivers I see lift-sharing....clearly it's cyclists who are solitary. Your post is not only full of sweeping statements but is inflammatory and victim-blaming. My husband has been hit and every time it has been in daylight with him in hi-vis and with lights on, as he cycles like this every time.

Including an occasion when I watched the cycle cam footage on the back of our toddler's trailer (with roll cage) showing the car driver just literally turn right into the side of him as he waited to turn at a junction. She thought that he should move and so just drove into him. Go figure...

[IAmNotAMindReader]

Perhaps the person who stated it was victim blaming to expect cyclists to do anything to make themselves more visible should challenge rule 60 in the Highway code then .
That has got to be the most ridiculous statement I have ever read on mumsnet.
I know a lot of cyclists are hit despite them doing everything they can to stay within the law, that's down to idiot drivers who should have the book thrown at them for their recklessness, but to go as far as to say compliance with rules is victim blaming is swinging so far in the other direction it's utter lunacy.

[engineersthumb]

Polarpercy
Why should a cyclist not take 2minutes longer to get on their way to avoid being in danger on the road and an inconvenience other road users? Appears that you suggest a cyclist convenience should take priority over other vehicles, why?

[polarpercy]

Ha nice try engineersthumb that's not what is being suggested at all, but hey don't let that stop you ranting.

Cycle paths are often badly lit and poorly maintained putting cyclists at risk at junctions, crossings and roundabouts. The advice from cycling groups and highway code is quite clear with regards to riding defensively.

Why should a car driver not wait for 2 minutes or is that too much for you to comprehend? It is not about priority it is about sharing the road, and guess what that means recognising that some vehicles and road users go slower than others.

MumsnetHQ these cycle-bashing threads are getting boring now and frankly quite worrying to think that some of these posters are in charge of cars

[KidLorneRoll]

"highway code recommends a solid light front and back...."

Not any more it doesn't. It used to be flashing lights (absurdly) weren't allowed, but that is no longer the case. Only a solid front light to see by is recommended now.

Flashing lights are better for being seen initially, and solids help with distance judging so ideally it's best to have both.