inadequately lit cyclists?

[MipMipMip]

Seriously, I'm getting fed up of people dressed in dark clothes. If they do have lights it's usually just a small one that can be easily hidden. The other day there was a woman dressed in black, no rear light and a dark child's seat (fortunately no child). Would it be so hard to wear a reflective top and put some reflectors on the back of the child seat?

If you get hit by a car even if you're badly dressed it will be the driver's fault. They should of course be looking out but you can make it easier for them. And you'll be the one in pain - surely people want to avoid that?!

Don't even get me started on the inability to use bells when someone is in front of cyclists on a path - pedestrians aren't psychic!

[whatsthecomingoverthehill]

"And those posters are the first to say cyclists are hated for no reason."

Cyclists are hated for no reason. You really don't have to go far to see it. And this affects how people drive. When people deliberately use their vehicle as a means to endanger and intimidate. This has just popped up on a local facebook group:

"f you're a cyclist and you choose to ride down the road and NOT on the 'cycle superhighway' which was conveniently placed at the side of every main road in Leeds for you.. then you deserve to be drove past aggressively whilst being beeped at and showered with foul language and finger pointing.. then the person driving past deserves to double back on themselves and restart the process again.. i don't care if it's icy, cold, inconvenient, or even a threat to your life and safety.. please use the goddamn lane that is put there for the purpose of what you need to use it for.. tbh even if you do use the lane you're still abit of a dick for cycling anyway but i respect your decision for the good of order".

This is not an uncommon attitude at all.

[MipMipMip]

Thank you Fliss Mumsnet, I Was going to ask you to delete it. I genuinely didn't want arguments but to get people thinking about being visible and keep themselves and their families safer.

For what it's worth I think some cyclists are idiots. I also think some drivers are. And pedestrians. And horseriding. And users of pretty much any for of transport except possibly astronauts. Though I'd guess even they can be (actually remember one woman who ended up wearing adult nappies so she wasn't slowed down while driving a cross America to stalk an ex, so I guess astronauts can be idiots too!)

The point is we all have a responsibility to look after ourselves and each other. Please do your best and stay safe people.

[ivykaty44]

Society doesn't seem to value human life, people have grown blasé about car deaths to the point they rarely make headline news, unless there is more than one death involved.
As to whether one human life can be weighed on a scale opposite a hundred thousand deaths I will answer after you tell me your answer

[FlissMumsnet]

Evening All, we're moving this thread over to cycling as feel it's placement in AIBU may inflame argument rather than debate.

Excuse the interruption

[IAmNotAMindReader]

Do you really think deaths via whichever cause can be weighed on a scale? How little you value human life.

[ivykaty44]

So 1.2 deaths every year at the hands of normal every day people driving, yet you want cyclist to keep protecting themselves and taking responsibility for drivers action. Cyclist can only do so much to safeguard themselves - but they can't prevent drivers stupid actions. Cyclist behaving within the law shouldn't be blamed.

Do you really think that a handful of links showing cyclist hurting pedestrians is in anyway comparable to the death toll of motorists?

[IAmNotAMindReader]

When you can claim 0 deaths then you can get on your high horse. Till then 1 death of a pedestrian caused by a cyclist is 1 too many, particularly if they have your attitude that everyone else is to blame. The point of my links was to point out that you cannot continue to rant about cars always being to blame in a situation where no car was involved. In some cases, pedestrians will be just as at fault as cyclists. The difference is I as a pedestrian am willing to accept that can happen. That there are pedestrians out there who act like cocks and have a hand in their own undoing. You, however, are not willing in any way to do the same for cyclists.

[ivykaty44]

imnotamindreader cyclist almost as likely to hurt you find me 1.2 million deaths caused by cyclists and then it would be equal for just 1 year of motorist causing deaths, you wont come any where close to 1000 deaths by cyclist

[IAmNotAMindReader]

lapsed I know you weren't and I agree with you but some posters seem to think requesting cyclists wear it is.

[IAmNotAMindReader]

No brain your fucking self anotherbloodycyclist.

It is not irrelevant. Each one of those links was posted in response to claims it is victim blaming to expect cyclists to operate within the law.
Why should I feel I am taking my life in my hands every time I cross the road? Because it is dangerous and I should be aware of my surroundings. I don't want my children run down so I teach them road safety and to wear reflective gear, high vis and follow the Highway code.
Why when it is applied to cars and pedestrians it's fine but when we come to cyclist people scream victim blaming and post irrelevant shite about addled pensioners careering through shops?

[lapsedorienteerer]

IAmNotAMindReader - I'm not blaming anyone, just stating as I see it (I drive a car...and I cycle....in Hi Vis)

[albertcampionscat]

Haven't read full thread and (full disclosure) am non-driving cyclist who thinks on balance helmets increase rather than decrease risk.

I could not agree more with the OP. Garish jacket and lit up like a Christmas tree has to be the way to go.

[NerrSnerr]

Maybe supermoon some car drivers are bad and some cyclists are bad. This 'middle england' shit just makes you sound like an idiot. Some people need cars due to type of work (harpist in London, community nurse, job or house in arse end of nowhere) and some choose to drive. Others like you don't and that's fine.

If we all shared the roads better, all had decent working and not too bright lights (cars and bikes) and were more considerate it would be much safer.

[anotherbloodycyclist]

Look no brain! I could post a whole bunch of links to motorists mowing down cyclists but whats the point? It's irrelevant. These threads always turn into a bun fight, wild generalisations, vitriol and total hate. Some cyclists are twats, as are some motorists.

[IAmNotAMindReader]

RichardBucket oh no you are correct I apologise profusely to anyone who was offended by my links. Obviously they were victim blaming the cyclist involved and the real culprit was a motorist.

lapsedorienteerer Alas you too have also fallen into the classic victim blaming trap. A cyclist has only rights, not responsibilities whilst in charge of a potentially deadly piece of machinery (despite what the Highway Code may say).

[IAmNotAMindReader]

//www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/cyclist-who-fractured-pedestrians-rib-after-crashing-into-her-on-city-footpath-caught-on-cctv/news-story/87c7dfc1060cd06c4ac71f04e3a5965d

//nowtoronto.com/news/think-free-blog/pedestrian-and-cyclist-collisions-may-2016/

//www.theargus.co.uk/news/14514645.Pedestrian_breaks_leg_following_collision_with_cyclist


//metro.co.uk/2016/02/10/pedestrian-spent-week-in-coma-after-cyclist-went-through-red-light-and-hit-him-5674259

Look no cars.

[lapsedorienteerer]

Yanbu - my biggest gripe is with cyclist at dawn and dusk. To be more precise late afternoon on a cloudy day.....I'm really not sure they realise just how invisible they can be if wearing all black....why do you have to wear all black?.....

[supermoon100]

Imnotamindreader, you've finally convinced me. Cars good - bikes bad. Yep finally got the message. Will be off to buy myself a reinforced 4 wheel drive pronto and join middle England clutching wildly to the driving wheels of their vehicles. No, I will cycle no more. All cyclists are octegenarian slaying demons!

[RichardBucket]

IAmNotAMindReader Stop VICTIM BLAMING! Cyclists are never at fault ever and drivers should go along at 2mph just in case one chooses to cycle under the wheels. P.S. That would still be the driver's fault for not being stationary.

Victim blamer.

[IAmNotAMindReader]

//www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37365010

//www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/57065/cyclists-almost-likely-injure-pedestrians-cars

//globalnews.ca/news/2750499/84-year-old-in-hospital-after-being-hit-by-cyclist-on-pedestrian-path

Where was the car driver that caused these incidents? Oh no it wasn't a motorist at all was it?

[ivykaty44]

Oh so it was driver at fault imnotamindreader and any amount of high viz and bright lights wouldn't have prevented this happening?

[IAmNotAMindReader]

...And has absolutely bog all to do with cyclists and everything to do with senior citizens who have probably should have given up driving a while ago. (As it's from USA I am going to assume an automatic was involved. Surprisingly easy to do something stupid in an automatic if you have a moment of confusion)

[ivykaty44]

www.northjersey.com/story/news/passaic/clifton/2016/11/28/nobody-injured-black-friday-after-car-crashes-into-store/94562246/

This accident also happened in daylight....

[supermoon100]

Also about 80% of cycling accidents and also most fatalities happen in day light. So perhaps all these terrible underlit cyclists really aren't such a massive menace after all.

[TaraCarter]

Oh, and at the end where it rejoins the road, there's usually a car parked across the dropped kerb.