From First to Final Draft - The New Creative Writing Thread.

[CharCharGabor]

Everybody's welcome, if you want to share ideas, techniques, publishing info or just chat about writing. Come on in!

Litchick - I am so glad you came back

Every single agent seems to have a different set of rules for submissions (Novelist ? how did you manage to get 3?!). I did two versions of the synopsis in the end (1 page and 3 pages). I have now sent this, along with the first 3 chapters and a query letter, to the first 3 agents I liked the sound of (and who didn?t also request a CV) in the Writers & Artists Yearbook.

My DH proof read everything for me it for me. He's really anal good at noticing tiny mistakes. He assured me it was well written and funny (I even caught him laughing at bits as I stood over him reading it). But he would say that, wouldn?t he?

A couple of my friends have asked me if they can read it, but so far I have been too embarrassed to hand it over. What do you think of allowing your friends read your work before it is published?

Novelist & toirtoiseonthehalfshell?What kind of fiction do you write? Is there a big chick lit movement in Australia? Australia is a big theme in my novel (the heroine?s sister emigrated and the man she?s in love with is engaged to an Australian girl - so she blames the whole continent for her problems. By the end of the book, a trip to Australia signals the beginning of her happy ending).

Spacehoppa - where's your blog? Can you post a link or will that 'out' you?

Yay! Writers!

Litchick, I just finished a YA ms. I used to write chick-lit, but the market is so bad, I moved into YA a number of years ago and am pretty much only doing that now. Have had four YAs out over the past five years or so and have just sold another in the US, which is exciting as I haven't cracked that market for YA before, only for women's fic.. My US agent is shopping a chapter book series around as well, so I'm hopeful about that. It's historical, though, which I've found a bit of a slog. Really interesting, but much harder than just making it all up, as per usual!

Tortoiseonthehalfshell, pick away. Sadly, there's not much left, though!

Nearlyanovelist, I had three (four actually, I can't count to save myself) by having a wrong one in Australia and a wrong one in the US. Now I have the right one in Australia and the US (I hope!). Lol at your DH. Mine is a medical specialist who only reads non-fic.. I stopped giving him my work to read after he came up with a little something called the 'eight character rule'. Apparently a novel can only be good if it has eight characters. Yeah, see ya buddy. My mum is an author and I sometimes give her my work, but then she goes all mum-like and tells me, 'It's lovely, darling'. And that's it. If I'm in doubt, I use an assessor. Am about to do that with the YA ms I've just finished. I'd only do that, however, if you had a really good assessor lined up who is super-familiar with the genre you're writing in.

What's everyone else writing? How's it going? Going to do the NaNoWriMo thing?

Hi all, its great to find other writers! At the minute, I'm just working on short stories. I am studying as well so writing has had to go on the back burner for a little bit, but I find writing short stories keeps my hand in a little. Or even just coming up with ideas and characters!

I might give the NaNoWriMo a go. I haven't done it before but it sounds interesting.

Litchick/Novelist, I know you don't want to out yourselves here but I can't help wondering if I've read any of your books !!

Anyone want to start a collaberative novel on here. I will start a thread but I warn you its going to be a whodunnit if I have anything to do with it...

Novelist - interesting that you have different agents for at home and the US. How did that come about?
Interesting also that you switched genre. Everyone always claims that as impossible - but I never bought that. Write something the oublishers think they can sell and they will buy it. End of.

I write crime fiction novels ( sixth one is out next year ).
The radio plays I've sold have all been different...though I guess they all have a northern edge IYSWIM.

Does he mean a maximum of eight characters, or does it have to be eight, no more no less?

TI write "literature" which is a large part of my problem. I think I need to break into shorter pieces I can shop around and get feedback on, rather tha plugging away at novels that never get finished.

I'm up for Nano, though - I did it once, years ago, but haven't managed since.

Ah, crime. Interesting! I'm a fluffy fluffster (my books are very pink and girly). Crime reading and writing scares me witless! I met a lovely crime writer who was sitting next to me at dinner at the last writers' festival I went to. We'd had the same number of books out and had kids the same age, but then she mentioned her husband has now stopped work and runs her corporation. And the similarities ended there, lol! Must be a great genre to write in.

I've also been 'told' that a lot about changing genres and I think it's rubbish. Writers write. You can write whatever you want. You can change your name and use a pseudonym and no-one will be any the wiser. Publishing is just another business and as long as whatever you write will sell, publishers will be all over it! I didn't have much choice, anyway. The market for chick-lit was so dead, if I didn't keep going and try my hand at writing something else, I may very well have never had anything published again.

Tortoiseonthehalfshell, I have no idea what he means. It's best not to go to that place where the 'eight character rule' makes sense! That's great that you're going to do NaNoWriMo. It's such a fantastic idea, but the timing has never lined up for me. This year, I have three mss to revise back to back up until the end of the year, so I'm going to miss out again, unfortunately.

Oops sorry, missed your question about the agents, Litchick and am not sure how to edit. Having two came about because (after having the wrong agents) I became a control freak and wasn't happy with using my Aussie agent's US sub-agent. I wanted to pick my own. And I'm glad I did, because she's amazing. Everything I ever wanted in an agent and then some. So, yep, is mainly about control.

Hi Litchick,

Good to see you're back. Are you still okay to look over my work?

bookends

Hello Literary Ladies,

I finally cracked the synopsis and I have submitted my work to eleven agents since 20 August. I haven't heard back from a single one of them, not even a form rejection letter. Am finding it v hard to be patient..grrr

Today I did something very brave or very silly - not sure which yet. My ex boss's sister works in publishing and specialises in chick lit. I emailed my old boss to ask if she would possibly ask her to look over my submission and give me some feedback. Am sh**ting myself waiting for her to respond.

I have started making notes on book 2 - to take my mind off the emotional rollercoaster of trying to get published. It is another romance combined with a psuedo ghost story and is set in a pub.

I am also 11w PG (shhh- it's a secret!) so am completely knackered but feeling super creative.

How's everybody else doing? Any new short stories on the go? All set for NaNoMo?

Litchick By revealing your genre you have blown apart my theory of who you are in RL!

Novelist I always wonder how authors manage to get all the details right in historical novels. Where to you start?!

Hey, NearlyANovelist. Go you! That is great that you have sent your work out. Now you'll just have to get zen about waiting for responses. Publishing is all about waiting, I'm afraid. Seriously, everything moves at a glacial pace.

You'd be mad not to use the in with your ex boss's sister. You've got to be pretty shameless and use the connections you have. You don't get what you don't ask for, right?

Haven't written too much historical before, but did try to write a chapter book series earlier this year for the 5-8 year old girl bracket and it was really difficult. Much easier just making it all up! Only wrote one and a big outline for the series and my US agent is shopping it around now, but had to have a little lie down after I'd done just one. It was hard going -- the research takes ten times as long as the actual writing!

Hello Again,

Yesterday was just about the most exciting afternoon of my entire life (apart from getting married and having babies, of course ).

Boss's sister got in touch earlier in the week, said she'd love to read the submission and asked me to email it to her. I physically cringed after I hit send. As I said, I've never let anybody apart from DH read the novel, so I had absolutely no idea what to expect.

I spent the next two days checking my email every five seconds and bracing myself for the worst things she could possibly say(e.g. Why don't you join a writers group? Do the MA at UEA? Learn how to spell?). Then yesterday afternoon I got a short email back saying that she'd had a look and thought it was 'pretty good actually' (note surprised tone!) and to give her a call.

After I'd spent ten minutes running round the house hyperventilating, I finally worked up the balls to speak to her. She gave me some lovely feedback and constructive criticism - but, best of all, she said she would get in touch with two agents who she thought might be interested on my behalf

I am still in shock, I couldn't sleep at all last night (just as well, as poor DD has a tummy bug and has been trowing up since 3am). I keep waiting to wake up and for it all to have been a dream.

So... My question is, what do I look for in an agent? Novelist You must be the expert! What should I avoid at all costs??

If anybody's reading this and thinking 'it's alright for her, she's got contacts' - I seriously didn't know I had any at the beginning. I just wrote and wrote and wrote every spare minute I had for two and a half years and then began talking about my writing to everybody I knew (which I find really embarassing). So you see, there is hope!

Nearly, that's fantastic news, well done. You might think about changing your name now though

I'm finding it hard to write atm. I'm studying as well so anything I do ends up reading like an essay than a story. Not sure whether to continue or put the writing to one side until I've finished my course

Wow! How exciting! That is seriously great news. A recommendation is a Big Deal.

Did you already have any agents in mind? It would probably be a good time to hunt around and have a look who you think would be good for you and get in contact. I always think one of the best ways is to have a look at who is representing writers you think write similarly to you.

I'm pretty out of touch with the UK agents as I have a US one and one on the ground in Australia, but I've had contact with Greenhouse Literary in the past and they were lovely.

So much of it is about personality and going with your gut when it comes to agents, I think. I've also found I've gotten better results with agents who are building up their client list, rather than the super-agents, who have full lists.

Fingers crossed for you!

Hello,

Thanks for all the good luck vibes. Let's hope this turns out to be the magical 'from first draft to on the bestsellers shelf in Waterstones' thread?

Tilly - Sometimes, the more serious my daily life is, the more I need to retreat into my own little fantasy world to relax. How about making notes on ideas for short stories while you can't actually write any?

Dandy - I remember! Am chuffed to hear that you managed to get through the rewrite - such a difficult thing to do after you've put so much into the original manuscript. Have you had any word back from the agent yet?

I had another fab moment last week. I was just about to flop down on the sofa after putting my 2yo to bed when I checked my phone and realised I'd missed a call. I rang my voicemail and was stunned to find a message from an agent, saying she really enjoyed the first 3 chapters and asking if I could get the rest of the manuscript to her by monday!!!

She is a small independent - I'd already submitted to her then the publisher also put a word in. Novelist - I really hope I can find out first hand if your advice works for me

This led to much panic and rushing around as I realised I wasn't quite ready to send it yet - DH had only proof read the first five chapters and we didn't even own a printer. We knucked down (while both suffering from a tummy bug and attending a wedding half way across the country) and DH delivered the final manuscript to her door personally at 9am this morning

So now I just have to go back oto waiting. Grrr... I am not good at waiting...

Dandy - waiting is hell. All I think about all day, every day, is whether or not she is enjoying the book! Are you the same?

Hi Can I join you?
I've just finished my 8th childrens book. I'm looking for an agent/publisher.

Please do join us belldechocolatefluffybunny - tho I have to warn you, for a bunch of writers, we are not very prolific!

What age children do you write for? Are they picture books or just text?

I am NearlyANovelist BTW - I keep forgetting to namechange to post on this thread so I might as well 'come out'

DandyLioness Any word yet?

Frankfurt apparently finished on Sunday so all the agents should be back at their desks by now. I know the woman I am waiting to hear from will have lots of work on but if she hasn't contacted me by Thursday I might have to give her a call, just to make sure she recieved the manuscript safely. My husband delivered it by hand, so I know she should have, but I just keep thinking - what if her dog ate it?!

They are childrens books for 5-7 year olds but I have ideas for older childrens books. They are just text as my pictures are not great, I might try though.
It's a bloody nightmare trying to find an agent. I've sent off some farm books, no one likes them though.
I've just sent one off to Little Tiger Press, it's about a snowflake so I'll have to wait and see.

belldechocolatefluffybunny - I think it's worse than ever at the moment as books aren't selling well, so publishers are tending to buy safe bets (i.e. by slebs or already sucessful authors) and agents are even more reluctant to take on new clients. All we can do is keep trying - good luck, little snowflake!

I am depressed this week as the agent rang back and said that she got so far through the book and then thought there wasn't enough going on, i.e. the plot was too linear She said that there is no room in the market at the moment for straight romances so the golden rule is to ask if you take away the romance, what's left?

Of course I think there's loads of other things going on in the book so I asked her where she'd got to - unfortunately she couldn't remember, what with Frankfurt I then started to explain and she kept saying "shh... don't tell me what happens next, it'll spoil it". So she is still planning to read the rest of it - hurrah!

She then admitted that she never reads the synopsis. I thought this was hilarious, given that us authors often find that part of the query process so difficult and I personally slaved over my synopis for weeks and worried myself sick over getting it right. Ah well, we live and learn.

It's a real pain. You have an agent though which is part of the battle.
Your book will be great, go with the flow though. It sounds like it's in her hands now.

never reads the synposis?
these people are sadists! I hate writing a synopsis, as you say, you slave over one, it's the hardest bit!
If they MUST ask for something pointless and unecessary I'd rather run naked round their office. Or eat an earwig sandwich.

I had a rather interesting message from a mumsnetter who is following me on twitter saying that she had a dream that she was holding my book in her hands. It was freaky yet lovely at the same time.