From First to Final Draft - The New Creative Writing Thread.

[CharCharGabor]

Everybody's welcome, if you want to share ideas, techniques, publishing info or just chat about writing. Come on in!

Thanks storyglory, I'll have to look those up. Apparently Stephen King's book On Writing is really good.

I used to work on a regional magazine. I'm now freelance and still write for them, and occasionally others. I've never really managed to break into national magazines though. It's nice work, but it doesn't pay well at my level.

Hi Litchick and others. I would really appreciate your views on my current situation.

I have actually completed a book manuscript. I got it finished and tidied up to the point that I was really happy with it, then sent it off to an agent. I received a very pleasant and thorough response with actual feedback, telling me I write well and the story is good, but that she only takes on material she can be personally passionate about and this just isn't her thing. She strongly encouraged me to try others. This was just before I had my baby. My baby is now 18 mths old.

Why have I done nothing since? Well, obviously the baby thing was a bit distracting. Then I started writing again, working on the second book (the intention is that this is an ongoing series). I suddenly felt that the second book is already much better than the first, and I now don't feel happy with sending off the first book as it is no longer 'good enough'.

Here are my questions:

1. Should I do a rewrite on the first book, or do I just need to not worry and get it out there? The sinking feeling of facing a rewrite is a real downer which I think is blocking my progress at the moment.
2. A lot of agents ask for the first three chapters. In the first book, these chapters are not the most exciting nor do they give the best 'feel' for the story. I realise this was a mistake and have corrected this for the second book, but what do I do about the agents? The agent who has seen the book saw the first, middle and last chapters, as their policy asked for a selection of three chapters. I don't think I would get such a good reaction to just the first three. This is my major motivation for thinking I need to do a rewrite.
3. If I do send it off to agents again, do I send to multiple agents all at the same time? You mentioned you did this, but some guidelines in the Writers' Yearbook suggest agents don't like this. Your view?
4. As the second book is now underway, would I send, say, the first three chapters from that as well? Or just mention the progress to date? DH thinks the second one is much better, and I feel as though I have really hit my stride wih it. Plus it has a cracking plot which I am loving.

Any advice? I think I need a bit of a kick as well as some clarity as to what I should really be focusing on now.

For everyone finding it difficukt to find time to write, I'd just say let something else go...whispers...housework.

I wrote book one when I was working full time and had babay twins. I don't say this to show I'm superwoman, I'm so not. I say it to show you can fit it in, but only if you give writing time priority. Cut out something else - gym,coffee with friends, ironing,MNing .

Ponymum - I would be tempted not to give up on book one. f you gt a detailed feedback from your first sub, then it has something. Rejections are usually standard three liners.

However, most agents do want the first three chapters My agent says he can tell within a couple of pages if he likes it!!! So you are going to have to re-work them to be the very best that they can be. They need to draw the reader in, not necessarily with explosions and murders, but with something the reader feels they need to know more of.
They must also set up your MC, setting and genre.

Don't worry that you feel the first book isn't as good as the second - you're learning on the job, so your second will be better. I cringe at the thought of book one, but it was the very best that I could do at te time.

Worse to debut with something you can never match, I tell myself. LOL.

That said, if you really cannot face a rewrite then don't. Nothing is ever wasted. Treat book one as a steep learning curve.

As for multiple subs, well agents don't like it. Tough titties, I say. Sub out in batches of five. Don't claim it to be a sole sub, but don't announce it's part of a dump sub either.You have the right to reamin silent etc...

If you do sub book one, definitely mention book two. No agent wants a one hit wonder, and the idea that you are prolific is what pleases. I wouldn't though, send the chapters of book two. These may change radicaly by the end of the novel, you could edit them out altogether. Instead, I would add a final para in your cover letter saying what you're working on, the title, how it links to book one, how far you've got etc.
Mention if it's a series, of course.

Now, I'm no expert,would never claim to be, so take or leave any of my advice.

Thanks Litchick for the response! However, you have confirmed my gut feeling on this - that I simply have to tackle getting those first three chapters right on book one. I certainly don't want to let this book go. It is very good, it just has a poor start. Unfortunately this means some significant restructuring is required... grrr. I feel encouraged by your comments though. I thought it was a good sign to get such a detailed and positive rejection from an agent.

I also appreciate your comment that it is worse to start with a book that you can never match again. It's quite helpful to think of that.

And concerning your other advice, you really need not fear. I am no danger of letting housework come between me and my writing!

I am ashamed to say that I haven't written a word since I last posted on here. It's so hard to find any time. I must try harder.

How's everyone else doing?

Hi Litchick

Finally managed to wrestle 'computer that only works, when it feels like it', and realise I should have replied to you over a fortnight ago.

Apologies: [email protected]

Talk to you soon.

bookends

Just wanted to pop in and wish Ponymum the best. It sounds like you are on to something - imagine rewriting those first three chapters as the "ring of fire" - the final bit and then off you go. It all sounds so promising for you. I wish you all the best x

Hello and wow to those of you that have whole books to be edited! How fantastic! Good luck.

I have been a bit rubbish - putting the final touches to a couple of things and struck down with horrid toddler-borne virus and so got in a bit of a rut. But have finally started something new now so am hoping for some momentum soon!

Hello Litchick & other lovely literary ladies,

I posted on here ages ago, looking for some support to help me finish writing the novel I started writing when I was pregnant.

I wanted to say thank you all so much. Your words of advice and encouragement were exactly what I needed to hear. I am now just two chapters away (that?s 42 chapters and 97 thousand words down ? woo hoo!) from completing my first draft.

I have also set up a blog so that I can record my progress and talk about writing (including m'ning!).

Now I best go namechange seeing as I have outed myself

Wow - well done! That's a fantastic achievement. Will check out your blog.

Nearly - that is fab.
What is it about? What genre? How long?

Hi Litchick, I really hoped you'd see this - your advice meant a lot to me.

It is a girl meets boy story (girl then dumps boy and moves on, boy turns up again,girl thinks it's fate and sets about trying to win boy back when she really shouldn't go there).

Gennre is chick lit and proud of it.

Currently 104 thousand words - I am now half a chapter away from the end of the first draft but DD has come down with chicken pox today

How can I find out the name of your book without outing you?

It sounds great.

Have you been editing as you go? Or will you need to do a big re-write?

Do you have atitle?

I don't really know how to tell you who I am, and don't want to out myself. When my next one's out perhaps I'll name change and post a link here...

I'm just putting the final changes into my latest before subbing it to my publisher. I hate this part and always get very nervous that they'll hate it. Funny how after all this time I still feel a fraud

How can you still feel a fraud?! Is this lack of arrogance something inherent in writers? How come musicians never suffer from this condition?!

How long has your latest novel taken you to write? How long do you spend on the editing process after writing it? Will you get anybody to read it before you send it off to your publisher?

I am hoping that I don't have to do a massive rewrite as I've been going backwards and forwards all the time I've been working on it. The first chapter needs the most work, I wrote it 'cold' after a few years of not writing any fiction at all - I was out of practice, I hadn't really found my voice yet and I didn't know any of my characters. I always think it would be much better if I could write the first bit last

I am going to create a timeline, to make sure I've got all my dates worked out correctly. I have a spreadsheet with a short synopsis of every chapter which is very handy. I've had a couple of people offer to proof it for me but I feel sick at the thought of letting them see it

I have been through a few working titles - all of which are awful (tired old sayings like 'Time will tell' blah blah). I have one which I'd really like to use but it's a pun on the name of a website (not mumsnet!). Do you know if I could do that, legally? How do you come up with a title?

I don't know why I don't feel more confidence. I guess one constantly reads the work of others and thinks 'wow, I couldn't do that.'
Also, it's very difficult to judge if a book works as a whole. I find I'm too close to see it properly.

The current WIP has taken about eight months to draft. I've subbed the first 70k to my agent and hope to send him the rest later today. The idea is that he can let me have his comments before I sub to my ed, but, I'm already way overdue so I may not have time to act on any of his suggestions.

Once my ed gets it, I'm free for a month or so. Then the editing work begins. I hate it, but it makes for better books.

As for a title - I wouldn't worry too much. Call it what you want. If legally it's not posible you'll be told. Anyway, publishers so often change titles they're not worth getting attached.

Hello lit ladies,

I am celebrating - last night I finished the first draft! It seems there are some benefits to being a world cup widow

Half of me is very excited. The other half thinks 'oh no, now I've got to go through the humiliation of trying and failing to sell this piece of sh~t'.

And even that's still a long way off, I've got to go through the whole thing again. There are some terribly tired metaphors in my first 3 chapters that really make me cringe. There was a v funny m'net threat on literary cliches recently that I might print out and pin to the kitchen wall while I'm editing!

Litchick - how's your editing going? Thanks so much for all your advice - and for makign it seem like writing a novel is an achievable thing to do.

And when I say 'celebrating' do read haveing a glass of wine

Hello, can I join? It's an inspiring thread.

I'm 27,000 words in (started about a month ago). I know where it's going, I just have to make sure it actually gets there.

For the last week or so I've written 2,000 words a day. I feel fairly consumed by the characters, the plot. A brilliant feeling!

I'm a SAHM and my main anxiety is knowing that this rich seam will run out in a fortnight when the children break up. Then I guess I'll lose this fabulous momentum.

Hello,

Just wondering if this thread is still going??? ANYBODY OUT THERE???

I have finally finished the first draft of the nove and the second draft In fact I am rather proud of it

I have had all day today to write and have been battling with the synopsis. Now I want to cry because I think I've been doing it all wrong (massive chapter by chapter breakdown when the Writers & Artists Yearbook says to just do a 350-450 word summary). So I have come on here to scream and pull my hair for a bit. Is anybody there who can offer a some soothing words of advice???

Hi everyone!

Having a quick look around this lovely forum as we're moving to Cambridge next year and I'm hoping to connect with some fellow writers (who are, of course, always the best kind of people!). I'm an Aussie novelist and have been doing it for some time now (first published in 2000... eep... that sounds like a long time ago). Have been through a lot of agents (3) and a lot of publishers (4) since then.

Hopefully there is still somebody out there, as NearlyANovelist was wondering. This seems to be the most recent novel writing thread going, anyway...

Nearlyanovelist - dom't get too worried about your synopsis. They always read back as the most boring thing ever...

As for length - check each agency's website. They will often say how long they would like it to be. It's worth having a few versions up your sleeve.

Hi novelist. I'm a writer too.
I've had quite a few novels published now ( new one out early next year). Have also sold some radio stuff and am just dippping my toe into telly.

What are you working on?

Novelist, I'm an Australian wannabe writer, does that count? I might pick your brains later on, if that's alright - I haven't a clue where to start.

I love writing stuff and have written some short stories. One day I think I will write a book, but for now I fill in my blog...Its great because it only takes a few minutes at a time. Also it is published pretty much instantly