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Waiting on agents

151 replies

Madhairday · 26/04/2021 15:25

I wondered whether anyone else is in the pit of submissions and might like to join me. I was on a thread like this a couple of years back when I wrote a YA (I had some interest but it didn't end up going anywhere) - and now I've written an upmarket commercial fiction (up lit) book and just about to start submission rounds. Part of me wonders if I am mad, going through that hell again, the rejections and the waiting, but I know I'd be cross at myself if I never gave it a try, especially as I've had extremely positive feedback from readers so far.

So here I am, collecting myself up, trying to craft a synopsis that simultaneously sounds alluring and yet reads as a plain old synopsis, and a covering letter that sings. Then there's the researching of the agents. I have just one in mind so far, so a long way to go with that.

Anyone else want to join the ride?

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Coucou2021 · 24/02/2022 10:19

@TheCurrywurstPrion I've been doing quite a bit of reading on the process of querying the past few months and ran into the same thing your contact said - hook and comp titles are so important.

Personally I find it a bit discouraging because it is difficult to find comparions. I've seen people say that if you have trouble finding comp titles it means you don't read widely enough in your genre but I think that's rather disaparaging. I read widely in my genre as well as outside of my genre but for me "widely" means picking up books written in the past 200 or so years, not just in the past 5, whereas from what I've read, it seems agents want to see comparisons to recent books, so the publisher can then say something like, "Perfect for fans of..." I do read a lot of books published in the past 5 years, too, but the chances they'll compare to what I'm writing - especially since, like most writers, I'm trying to write something that's a bit different than what's already out there - are fairly slim.

Does anyone have any tips for this by any chance? How does it have to compare, can the comp titles for example also be books with very different kind of stories / timelines etc. but with a similar atmosphere or writing style? What exactly needs to be similar in order for it to be a good comp title? Thanks for any advice you may have!

Good luck to everyone who's querying at the moment!

TheCurrywurstPrion · 24/02/2022 14:29

you don't read widely enough in your genre but I think that's rather disaparaging

I think that’s a cover for them wanting the author to do that part of the job for them. You have to have read a lot to write well, but in a decent market, you shouldn’t have to write to a formula which perfectly fits a selected genre. Unfortunately it does reflect the way the industry works right now. Sometimes I think I’m an idiot for trying to break into something I really don’t fit into.

I don’t know even really know what my genre is, but I have read a lot, co-authored six books relatively recently, and don’t need to read any more to know what I want to write.

I have received my copy of Writers’ & Artists’ Yearbook and was flipping through it a couple of nights ago, trying to find the section on agents. I came across a spectacularly telling section, where an agent gave two examples of “a (real) perfect cover letter that worked” and “a letter I made up, that would never work”.

The latter was obviously designed to be ridiculously rude, but the former was very telling: that the agent used it demonstrated her own blindness to the problems for any completely new and unconnected author.

Guess what the first paragraph was?

Dear xxxx

I hope you don’t mind me contacting you directly. You have been highly recommended to me by an editor at Faber, who I worked with on the Faber Writing-a-Novel course a few years ago.”

The person later explains their “day job” is writing published articles in national magazines.

So this letter says nothing to those who’ve put their energies into writing their novel without having a background in the industry and who have no connections.

This whole process is deeply, painfully frustrating for those of us who are a million miles from the industry as a whole, but believe we have a genuinely good book to sell.

Coucou2021 · 24/02/2022 15:24

Sometimes I think I’m an idiot for trying to break into something I really don’t fit into.

I feel very similar @TheCurrywurstPrion! I have the Writers' & Artists' yearbook too and had the same reaction as you reading that letter.

Some people say great novels will always rise to the top but I've also seen plenty of people state that if your query letter, hook and comp titles aren't any good, without industry connections, no-one will take a look at your novel. I've even seen people say that getting that part right, doing your market research and so on is as important as writing the book.

I've had a fair few short stories published and used to think that was hard - lots of rejections for each acceptance. But now I miss the simplicity of having the story judged solely on the merit of the work, no marketing, hooks, comp titles and so on needed. I realise it's a different beast, though, as literary magazine don't need to make a profit.

Drybird2020 · 25/02/2022 12:17

I've had a reply from the only agent who has requested a full MS - a rejection. She was actually quite encouraging and said that she thinks I will find an agent, she likes the pitch and my writing, but is not 100% sure of it, which she would need to be in the current climate (this last part is very much in line with other rejections). Her reservations were that she felt I could develop the characters and their emotional journey, but she didn't give any specifics. Would it be acceptable to ask what exactly she means, or is that a big no-no? If I had a nudge in the right direction I think I would find the impetus to revisit the MS and make changes, but it's such a broad comment that I don't know where to start.

@TheCurrywurstPrion and @Coucou2021 I read with interest your comments on hooks and comps. I can place my novel in the genre but haven't found any natural comparisons, despite reading widely. And I have NO industry contacts at all - like lots of us on here I am a working parent writing in the evenings and early mornings. The writing part is fun - this stage less so.

TheCurrywurstPrion · 25/02/2022 14:32

Would it be acceptable to ask what exactly she means, or is that a big no-no?

I think you could ask politely, though I think you should be prepared for her to not respond.

Congratulations though, on getting that far though. That’s a really good sign.

Drybird2020 · 25/02/2022 17:47

Thanks @TheCurrywurstPrion. 😊 I have to remind myself about the positives, it's easier to focus on the criticism.

Madhairday · 28/02/2022 09:15

Yes, congratulations @Drybird2020 for getting that far. It's a great achievement - but so frustrating as well, I know (I had full requests then rejections for the last novel I sent out, currently languishing in the far reaches of my computer.)

Interesting thoughts about needing to do the work on the hook, comparison titles etc. I thought I'd nailed that for this one but still no real interest. I did recently show it to a friend who is a prolific and successful genre author, she said it was good but too long, and to keep bio stuff to a minimum as well as a description of the story - she said leave it mainly at the hook and one more short paragraph, let the synopsis do the rest of the work. Agents have so little time and a wall of text would put them off. She said go with a hook, description of genre and short paragraph inviting the agent further into the story, short para on comparisons, v short bio and that's it. Seemed mine was too long and therefore probably put agents off. I really must try again on the back of her advice.

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Helmetbymidnight · 28/02/2022 16:49

thinking of comparative titles can be a great way to pitch but also to keep your writing on track- i know its tempting to think our writing is completely original but there will be books, not only in your genre, but beyond and also films or even tv series that you might be able to compare it too-
think- not only of setting or era but also tone or voice- think about style/sentence/chapter length- think about the books you loved/inspired you- there will be similarities- draw on them.
it IS a marketing tool yet it also demonstrates an author who knows what theyre doing and how it fits in the market.
and if youre really stuck dm me and ill have a go Smile

Drybird2020 · 03/03/2022 11:23

@Madhairday I'm about to revisit my CL so the advice from your friend is helpful and timely. I had thought letter was succinct but I now think I can tighten it up a bit. Thanks!

@Helmetbymidnight that's a very generous offer! I am a bit stuck for comparisons and would appreciate some help. I write YA, is it a genre you are familiar with?

Helmetbymidnight · 03/03/2022 11:35

I can have a go @Drybird2020 - DM me your cover letter and I'll see if I can throw some ideas out there xx

Drybird2020 · 03/03/2022 12:00

@Helmetbymidnight I have done so! Thank you Flowers

Madhairday · 03/03/2022 20:24

@Helmetbymidnight would you mind having a look at my CL too? So generous of you to offer!

@Drybird2020 I like reading YA so if you want a beta reader with editing experience I'm happy to take a look :)

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Helmetbymidnight · 03/03/2022 22:00

of course - go for it, mightn't reply til tmrw but will do- a second set of eyes is always valuable-

Drybird2020 · 04/03/2022 09:31

Thanks both. You've really cheered me up! @Madhairday I have sent you a DM. Multiple times, I am afraid, due to a phone glitch. Sorry about that.

Madhairday · 04/03/2022 10:11

Thank you so much @Helmetbymidnight - that's so generous of you. Will send it over in a bit.

@Drybird2020 I'll have a look now :)

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TheCurrywurstPrion · 11/06/2022 07:42

I thought I’d come back and update, because I have now got an agent!

It feels quite amazing and I’m not sure what swung it. I had more or less given up. I had significantly changed my letter and blurb after sending about thirty letters out with barely any replies. I sent out the new version to five. All at both stages were AAA members, for what it’s worth. I think I got a slightly higher response rate with the new version, but still form rejections.

I pretty much gave up after that and decided that I would start on a completely new book. I thought I might come back to the agent search later, as I was still nowhere near 100 rejections, but the whole thing was getting me down at a time when there were more than enough tough things going on to cope with, all at the same time.

I have, in the past, used elements of the snowflake method - www.advancedfictionwriting.com/articles/snowflake-method/ - for plotting, so I looked it up and made a start on what I thought would end up being a thriller. As I was trying to put together my one-sentence summary, I was reading the New York Times bestseller blurbs (as recommended) when a new one-sentence summary for my MS swam into my head. I noted it down in case I wanted to come back to it.

A couple of days later, I thought perhaps it would be a useful exercise to do step 2 for the MS I had already completed. I had probably done this before I started, but the storyline had likely changed, so I started from the beginning. I didn’t get it down to the four sentences, but trying to really concentrated my mind and by the end, I finally had that ellusive one page synopsis that I’d really struggled with before.

I still wasn’t really ready to plunge back in on a big scale, but one quiet evening, I thought I’d look through the Writers’ and Authors’ Yearbook to perhaps find agents that didn’t have a website or that only accepted submissions on paper. Logically, only those looking seriously for an agent would go there, so these agents must surely at least have a smaller slush pile. For the first time, I also thought perhaps I should drop my idea that membership of the AAA was non-negotiable.

I found a few that fitted my new parameters. There was one in particular that stood out. For reasons I won’t go into, I thought she might “get” my novel, more than the slightly more random selection of AAA members I had been approaching. I looked through her authors and they seemed quite successful and the whole thing seemed fairly well established, so I went for it.

She got back to me very quickly to ask for the full MS, then read that really quickly too. She was springing with enthusiasm right from the start. So now, after all that, I finally have an agent who has been so enthusiastic about my work that I genuinely feel hopeful that she might persuade a big publisher to take it on.

So after having literally no requests for the full MS from any other agents, I suddenly have one I am incredibly happy with, because she really seems to want to represent me. She’s not one of the big hot-shot agents, and that suits me, because I don’t think I can do all the super-high pressure sales stuff that I think some of them would demand.

As for my book comparisons, I gave a couple, but they were aimed at giving a real idea of what my novel fell between and not an attempt to compare to other super-popular authors in my genre. As I said before, that’s the kind of thing I need my agent to do. I want to write and will obviously work with any publicity, but I’m not interested in researching and reading a whole load of books in my writing genre, whatever that might be. Time for reading is limited and there is a lot of Terry Pratchett to get through.

So that’s my summary.

LouisaMayAlcott · 11/06/2022 09:13

Congratulations @madhairday! Getting an agent is really difficult so that's a brilliant update, I hope you're soon here announcing a book deal!

LouisaMayAlcott · 11/06/2022 09:14

LouisaMayAlcott · 11/06/2022 09:13

Congratulations @madhairday! Getting an agent is really difficult so that's a brilliant update, I hope you're soon here announcing a book deal!

Sorry I am a plonker I tagged the wrong person! Why can't I just edit it???!

TheCurrywurstPrion · 11/06/2022 10:30

Thank you @LouisaMayAlcott

I still can’t quite believe it. She wants some quick edits, then to pitch quickly, so I will get some idea quite soon whether it’s going to sell easily or whether it will be a struggle.

Helmetbymidnight · 15/06/2022 10:43

This is fantastic, well-deserved news - you have been committed and methodical and resourceful. go-go-go!
My first book with agent didn't sell - but having an agent was absolutely the wind(?) i needed, it gave me the confidence and the 'in' and my second book sold.
Let me know if you need any help/sounding board etc - although it sounds like you're well on top of this!

Madhairday · 17/06/2022 19:53

That's fantastic news, @TheCurrywurstPrion (@LouisaMayAlcott I wish it was me!!) - it sounds like you've put so much work into the process and it's paid off. So pleased for you! Keep us updated with how it all goes from here.
I need to make another round of subs. I got a very kind and encouraging rejection, saying they loved my writing and would love to see further work, but the book didn't fit their list. Sigh....I'll keep going for now.

How's everyone else getting on?

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StyleDesperation · 21/06/2022 15:36

Could I crash your thread for support? Currently have children's picture book series out to agents, and just had first rejection. "We could see potential but don't think we're the best agency to represent you". Does that mean "it's rubbish" or could it genuinely mean, "we can see it might be good but it's not for us". Weirdly I don't feel as disappointed as I thought I would, it's a bit anticlimactic in fact!

Also congrats @TheCurrywurstPrion sounds like your determination has paid off!

TheCurrywurstPrion · 21/06/2022 15:55

It’s often very difficult to tell when there are statements such as “we could see potential” or “we thought it was an interesting concept”. Unless it makes specific reference to something in my submission, I tend to assume it’s a standardized rejection, and they are making an effort to try not to discourage people. It’s difficult, because it would actually be really helpful to get some kind of feedback so you could tell whether you were close, or a million miles away.

That said, I had thirty rejections or silence. Most of the rejections were form rejections. There were no requests for the full MS, but then suddenly someone really, really wanted it.

Anyway, welcome to the thread and good luck.

BecauseOfIndia · 23/06/2022 15:26

@TheCurrywurstPrion Brilliant to hear your news - and so inspiring! Would you mind sharing the name of the agent? (by DM of course), it would be really interesting to know who it is. I'm also not looking for a 'hot-shot agent', I'd rather, someone who is a bit more mature, as my beta reader feedback suggests that my novel speaks most clearly to readers aged 60+ (I am not that age so a bit of a suprise, but it's flattering I think...).

I am editing again (fifth time) before going back into submission hell. I've still only sent to 11 agents and am leaving the one I really, really want until the very end.

The rejection of this business never seems to end. I entered a competition a while ago that promised feedback. I'm sure some of you know which one it was. I got the feedback on my first chapter yesterday and wow - it was so negative!! If I hadn't already had positive feedback from industry professionals I would probably have given up writing on the basis of it. Just goes to show how unbelievable subjective this all is. It is the same piece of writing that won me an Arts Council grant for gifted writers on a low income, and nearly snagged me an agent. He was so passionate about my opening, he said "Don't change a single word of this." I'm choosing to stick with him on that!

Part of the feedback was the usual - that they wanted to be thrown into the heart of the action, that my beginning was too wordy and meandering. I'm currently reading The Goldfinch by Donna Tartt (my kind of book - so brilliant) but it made me think how the reader for that competition would see it - boring, meandering bits about art and painting, lets get straight to the explosion!! Missing the point entirely about the philosophical nature of the book. I'm not saying that my writing is even close to The Goldfinch, but it has made me see that entering novel competitions is totally pointless with a book like mine.

Madhairday · 24/06/2022 09:44

@BecauseOfIndia it's all so subjective isn't it. Completely agree that books like The Goldfinch or any by say Kate Atkinson just wouldn't do what these reviewers seem to want. They sound very narrow in their thinking if they want everything to be action packed from the start - most literary fiction really isn't, and it's all about the character building. I think I'm facing similar with my women's fiction. I'm inspired by @TheCurrywurstPrion to keep going with submissions though after having around 10 rejections. It's so dispiriting, we really do have to learn to grow a thick hide in this business!

Hello @StyleDesperation and welcome. I wouldn't be too dispirited by that rejection - it's fairly form but on the positive side and I remember reading that if an agent doesn't see anything good at all they won't send out the form rejections with 'it has potential' or 'liked the concept' etc (oh, I've had so many of those...) I remember reading I think it was Curtis Brown who had a number of form replies and picked the one that fitted best. So try not to be too downhearted and keep going! Have you done the illustrations yourself?

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