Waiting on agents

[Madhairday]

I wondered whether anyone else is in the pit of submissions and might like to join me. I was on a thread like this a couple of years back when I wrote a YA (I had some interest but it didn't end up going anywhere) - and now I've written an upmarket commercial fiction (up lit) book and just about to start submission rounds. Part of me wonders if I am mad, going through that hell again, the rejections and the waiting, but I know I'd be cross at myself if I never gave it a try, especially as I've had extremely positive feedback from readers so far.

So here I am, collecting myself up, trying to craft a synopsis that simultaneously sounds alluring and yet reads as a plain old synopsis, and a covering letter that sings. Then there's the researching of the agents. I have just one in mind so far, so a long way to go with that.

Anyone else want to join the ride?

Welcome @Drybird2020 and congratulations on getting this far. I love that genre - I've written two of a YA dystopian trilogy but laid them aside for now while I concentrate on this one.
@WeetabixComesAtAPrice that is very helpful, especially the two different synopsis lengths - quite a challenge. I'm wrestling with mine at the moment and frustrated with it, maybe I'll try the longer one then see how I can cut it for the shorter one.

With the letter do you think it's better to have actual titles for comparison - eg this book has a similar flavour to The Unlikely Pilgrimage of Harold Fry - or comparison authors, eg this book will appeal to readers of Rachel Joyce and Libby Page? Jury seems out on various blogs on that one...

I think for comparisons, it firstly depends on whether you can confidently say your book has a similar appeal to all works by a particular author - I can think of a few who have radically changed direction in the course of their careers - you may need to qualify, e.g. 'the crime novels of so-and-so.'

Secondly, I think it shows more market-awareness to name specific (recent and popular) titles. There's no reason why you couldn't do a combination of both - 'this book has a similar flavour to The Unlikely Pilgrimage of Harold Fry and will appeal to readers of Rachel Joyce and Libby Fry'.

Libby Page, that should say.

Thanks, Weetabix, that's helpful. Trying to craft my covering letter at the moment and keep changing it, I guess there's a point you can't keep editing anymore, in a similar way to the book itself.

How's everyone doing this weekend?

Thanks all for the tips. I finished book 1 of a trilogy a month and a bit back and am at the "let it sit in a drawer" stage that Stephen King recommends. I'm going to go back to it tomorrow and start to really 'kill my darlings' (that gorgeous prologue is out at it just wastes time, without it we get to the first body in 15 pages). I'd been so focused on writing the damned thing that I didn't really think beyond that. I've been doing a lot of comp submissions but even they've got long lead times.

Book 2 is underway and I adore the second chapter, my lead from the first book really starts to come to life. The real star of the first book was the serial killer, you didn't realise it for the first third of the book but they were the star of the show. The reveal was explosive to say the least. Book 2 is plotted, mostly, I've got key scenes planned out and I know the high concept for it.

Book 3... I know the title, I know the opening, I've a vague idea that it will be set in 2 time periods (at least). I know that a major supporting character from book 2 will be revealed to be the son rather than the grandson of a major supporting character from all the books (and that this character will turn out not to be in his 80s as suspected but actually to be 107 years old (born in a camel train led by Laurence of Arabia) and still capable of taking out 2 Russian mercenaries, crash landing a helicopter and then walking out of the Empty Quarter unhurt).

I'm waiting on beta readers to actually... read...

I know the title, I know the opening, I've a vague idea that it will be set in 2 time periods (at least). I know that a major supporting character from book 2 will be revealed to be the son rather than the grandson of a major supporting character from all the books

@Hippyshubbie Oooh, yes ... I think the stage you're describing, when the structure of your book is just starting to emerge from shadow and take shape, is one of the most delicious parts of the writing process. For me, it can be mixture of tiny details and major plot points that emerge at first, and then they start knitting together and I know at once what is real, the true story, and what is false. I'm on the edge of that stage with my next novel - I can see the shapes but they haven't quite emerged yet.

Yes to killing the darlings. It hurts at first but once you get going it's very satisfying - like having a declutter of your house,

@WeetabixComesAtAPrice

I know the title, I know the opening, I've a vague idea that it will be set in 2 time periods (at least). I know that a major supporting character from book 2 will be revealed to be the son rather than the grandson of a major supporting character from all the books

@Hippyshubbie Oooh, yes ... I think the stage you're describing, when the structure of your book is just starting to emerge from shadow and take shape, is one of the most delicious parts of the writing process. For me, it can be mixture of tiny details and major plot points that emerge at first, and then they start knitting together and I know at once what is real, the true story, and what is false. I'm on the edge of that stage with my next novel - I can see the shapes but they haven't quite emerged yet.

Yes to killing the darlings. It hurts at first but once you get going it's very satisfying - like having a declutter of your house,

That is exactly where I am. The killing will be easier in a way, I had a couple of submissions to do with it for a smaller publisher and they wanted the first 15 pages. The more I debated over whether to include the prologue or not, the more I realised it had to go. Straight into the action, one of the main characters revealing a key clue is our very first exchange now.

That stage is the fun bit but the slog is connecting the dots if too much is revealed now, too many false avenues etc. Sometimes I like to just have a starting point and discover the adventure as I go rather than fighting myself as I try to force it to fit.

Maybe it is just my internet connection and/or asking too much of a Chromebook but I've found that GoogleDocs is incredibly creaky. It started to get a little laggy around the 40 page mark, now it is nearly 540 it is like I'm being given enforced thinking time.

@WeetabixComesAtAPrice thank you so much for the advice on how to start on a submissions package. I have been writing chapter summaries as I go along with a view to reducing them down to a synopsis. I already have an elevator pitch and a blurb.

More difficult, I'm finding, is comparisons. It seems so arrogant to compare my work to that of authors I admire, additionally, I can't find anything that works as a comparison with my book. I read quite a bit of YA but maybe I need to broaden my reading (obstacles: time and expense!) Do you think comparisons are absolutely essential when submitting?

My positive news is that I was further along than I thought, and am writing up the penultimate Chapter. I have a rough draft of the last Chapter too.

I find writing great fun, but by definition it's a very isolated activity, so it's interesting to read about how everyone is getting on, and your different approaches.

If you look at different agents' submission guidelines, some say they want comparison titles and others don't - as with any part of the guidelines, if they say they want something, you should offer it. If they don't mention it and you don't think it would add anything to your submission, then you don't have to include it.

I try to find interviews and podcasts from the agents I'm interested in - they often expand on what they like to see in a submission, so that can be a useful guide where the information on the agency website isn't very specific.

It's not arrogant to compare your work to authors you admire. Think of it as a marketing exercise - the agent wants to know what sort of people would buy your book - you are not comparing your work on quality, simply on audience.

If there is no exact match you can offer 'amended' comparisons - e.g. 'It's in the style of X but for a younger age group'.

Really good advice Weetabix. I'll have a look out for podcasts etc when I've made my first list of agents. Still plodding through the edit, and still killing darlings. I wiped 2000 words yesterday and it felt strangely cathartic - like decluttering your house. I just realised they were adding nothing to the book.

Welcome to everyone, good to see more people on the journey :)

Hi, please can I join? I was also on a previous thread a few years ago (the how to stay sane one), and I remember @Madhairday from there. I had a different username then, think it was dontrocktheboat!

Anyway, it’s really nice to have a thread where everyone is at different stages. I am at a similar stage as @Hippyshubbie with my second novel ( the Stephen King leaving it in a drawer phase) and hoping to start the daunting redrafting process next week (although have just acquired a puppy, to add to 3 kids and a job, so seem to just be building up obstacles for myself!)

My tale of woe, or inspiration, depending how you look at it is that, partly thanks to the previous thread and some great advice, I actually acquired an agent for my first novel. However, after a long process of redrafting, 2 rounds of submissions and 2 near misses it ultimately did not find a publisher. So I have been back to the drawing board for 2 years and have completed a (messy, long) draft of another novel. I would say it is literary fiction if I had to categorise it, though mainly as it doesn’t really fit anywhere else (my favourite authors are Maggie O’Farrell and Kate Atkinson, though I would not compare myself to them - I think in my previous submissions though, I said something along the lines of authors who I am inspired by rather than making direct comparisons!)

Anyway, it would be great to have a thread for moral support and advice through various stages. I am in the dubious position of still, technically, having an agent, though I feel I have been somewhat ghosted, as after much encouragement and positivity about working on something else she has kind of fallen out of touch. So I have not quite been dumped, but I am too avoidant to contact her for fear of being formally dumped, I still get emails the agency (reputable well known agency) sends from time to time to its clients so am still on their list, but am not banking on her still representing me. Which is a shame as I found her lovely, helpful and good to work with (and I don’t think I am in any way difficult to work with either, but I appreciate agents have their own careers to think about).

So my top piece of advice, which would have been very valuable to me in retrospect is if you sign with an agent ask them specifically what will happen if your book does not sell. I learned the hard way that this is all too common, after being under the impression getting an agent was the hard part.

Looking forward to chatting and seeing how everyone gets on.

Hello @celestebellman - I remember you as dontrocktheboat :) I remember you getting an agent, and I'm so sorry to hear of your frustrating journey since then. It's true, it can be easy to see getting an agent as an end goal, but that's only a step along the way, in reality. I really hope your agent will take on your new book - good advice about asking what happens if the book doesn't sell.

I'm now about half way through a second thorough edit, but I've come to the stage where I'm finding it hard to 'see' now - too close to the text. I did leave it in the drawer as Stephen King suggests, but still struggling now to have a more objective view of the whole thing. Just plodding through and trying to weigh every word - does it really need to be in the book? It's a long old process...

I'm really not looking forward to the comparisons stage. I don't know who to compare to. It just feels daft to have to do all this work with the subs etc. The book should be enough!!! But we don't live in the world where you can easily become the best storyteller in the village or region. Hell we don't even live in the same world as we did when I was a kid... the population has literally doubled and 30 years ago Timbo published the first webpage. I think I'm just tired.

The book should be enough!!!

You're right in that none of us should lose sight of the book being the most important thing.

Your sub is just a way of (trying to) make it stand out from the other 20 books that will arrive in an agent's mailbox that day.

Of course, there are other paths you could follow, such as self-publishing, but again you'd have to market your book to get it noticed and have a chance of significant sales.

I get it. I really do. King doesn't help. For King success didn't come easy but when it came it came fast and hard. He gives practical tips but they are about an art, a craft.

John Scalzi, however, is an amazing Scifi writer who has produced dozens of books but has never hit the really big time. In "you're not fooling anyone when you take your laptop to the coffee shop" he talks about writing not as this thing we are driven to do. For him we aren't mystical shaman forming magic and life out of just words... for him it is a job. It is a hard job. It is work. He writes, that is his skill so he writes anything. As well as the novels he does reviews, short stories, web content etc. Etc. When I first read it I thought he was being quite cynical and nasty at times. Now I'm facing the quest to storm the dark forests and impenetrable fortress of getting published... well now I know he is right.

As are you.

It doesn't make me like it any more.

Stephen King published his first book in the 1970s - when the world of publishing was very different. I'm sure his advice on the craft of writing still holds good, but comparing his career path to that of a modern writer is a waste of time. Nowadays you are competing against anyone who can create a Word document of 50k+ words (even if they're complete drivel) and fire off an email - your book may be well-written, edited, refined but when it lands in the agents' inbox it's just an email like any other unless you can make it stand out.

Yeah, Scalzi also blows away the whole artist mystique of "write for yourself," and stresses the fact that this is a business, a job. We are obliged to write what will fit the market... from the guy who wrote Red Shirts and Old Man's War.

...and consulted on the least popular and most challenging part of the Stargate franchise (for the record I loved Universe and wish it had continued)

Interesting discussion. I agree about submissions - you have to give the agent a compelling reason to give yours a second glance. I'm writing my covering email at the moment and trying to craft it so it sings. At the moment I have:

Dear agent
...reason why approaching you
...would love you to take a look at blah blah in blah blah genre etc
...elevator pitch or one sentence to pull into the book
...followed by a blurb type of thing, hopefully enticing the agent
...followed by a short bio including writing credits, publications and media coverage so far, etc
...then a short sentence summing up and saying I think it will appeal to readers of....

Do you think that covers it pretty much? Is it the right order? It's all so difficult to get exactly right.

True about SK publishing a long time ago. He always made much of his large pile of rejections though, he kept all the slips on a spike in his home to remind him of where he'd been. I think there were over a hundred but he counted stuff from magazines and when he was a teenager as well.

The sci-fi author sounds worth a look. They're right - we have to treat this like a business, and that can be a difficult thing to do if all we want is to write. I've learned a whole load about marketing for my books and I'd prefer not to do any of it, but needs must.

I think that covers it; not sure there is a right or wrong order. I tend to prioritise whatever it is the agent seems to think is most important - for instance, if they stress the elevator pitch you could use as your opener:

Dear Agent,

Weetabix is trapped in a lift with the CEO of Curtis Brown, and has just 30 seconds to pitch her novel.

'Weetabix and the Agent' is an 80,000 word suspense novel, which I'd compare to the work of William Shakespeare and Roald Dahl. I hoped it would appeal to you because you recently tweeted about your obsession with lifts, which are a central theme of my novel ...

Soooo... I do the comps in the Writer Magazine between working on the book.

I just won!

Huge prize, $15 or a copy of the book... but a win is a win!

Well done! That's great news, and will be a brilliant thing to mention in your submissions.

@WeetabixComesAtAPrice I'd read that book 🤣 - but yes, seriously, you're right - tailor it to exactly what they ask for if you can find that information. It's easier with some than others.

@Hippyshubbie that's brilliant and definitely one for the bio. I've only ever been shortlisted for Writing Mag comps, not won, it's a great achievement.

I've just been placed as a finalist for my town Resident Poet competition, would love to have won but I'll still mention it as things like this show you're engaging with writing in diverse ways and that can all help I think.

Thanks, @madhairday, yes it was a bit of a bitter pill, I have to say, but onwards and upwards. I'm pleased to have got to the stage of having a first draft of something else now, though I don't have a huge amount of confidence in it. I am clinging to the idea that first drafts are just that, ie something to work with and shape into an aesthetic creation!
It's inspiring to see you have got to the next stage again after your first experience, looking forward to hearing how it goes, and really hope you have success with your queries - I think that structure of query letter looks good, if I remember correctly mine were fairy concise, as I found the entire process excruciating.

Agree that can't really compare the publishing industry now to 30 years ago - as far as I know it has got progressively harder over the last few years to be published traditionally, and the worst hit are mid-list authors who are writing fiction that's not particularly commercial, or likely to make it to the supermarket shelves (and I feel I am probably in this category...) I haven't read too many books on how to write, as I tend to view this as procrastination, which I am very prone to (and there is just so much!) I did read the Stephen King 'on writing' book recently, and I took a few nuggets from it, which would probably be the case with any similar work, but I enjoyed reading it as he is such a compelling storyteller, even just narrating his own life. I did like the idea of a story/ novel as a fossil which you unearth and then chisel away at until you have revealed it, so this is how I am now viewing my first draft.

@Hippyshubbie, that's great news, congratulations. Also well done @madhairday, Resident Poet sounds pretty prestigious. I always feel I should write more short pieces (well, finish and redraft ones I start...) to submit and build up a CV. I've had a couple of things published but don't do nearly enough, and always feel an internal battle thinking I should concentrate on my novel. I'm impressed with people who manage to keep lots of plates spinning and be more prolific.