Please come and talk to me. Just for some general writing chat and support...

[BiglyBadgers]

I am about a third of the way through editing my stupidly long book (this'll teach me for writing epic fantasy) and need some chat!

I really loved the chat and support on the nano thread, but now novel writing month is long gone and I am alone! There must be other people out there bumbling along needing a friend to chat to...surely....I can provide coffee, cake and excellent free WiFi

I must admit I know little about the general flash fic market except I have some Twitter friends who are constantly posting about markets/competitions etc so there's a lot of info out there, it's just sifting through it I suppose!

And I keep telling myself to stop writing shorts and focus on the novel anyway. Grr I get so easily sidetracked by myself!

In the Guardian today, seems timely! www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/25/how-to-get-my-book-published-you-asked-google-answer

Which novel have you decided to go with generic? I think you were working on fantasy and contemporary?

Still not sure Tippety! I've spent the last week reading each chapter of my fantasy novel (just quickly) and writing down revision notes, then I wrote a synopsis of the whole thing so I could sort of hold it in my head better.

But I'm still not 100% sure it's fixable and writing a new draft of contemporary sounds more appealing than editing a 100k fantasy novel!

Interesting Guardian article :)

I raise you editing a 170k fantasy novel.

I managed to rewrite my ending which is now a bit more satisfactory, but the whole thing needs a lot of work, particularly the last 2 thirds. I think I need to do an editing plan of some sort and put aside a couple of decades of my life.

Or I might just rewrite my little SF short to send out instead...

I realise I have ended up with a instead of a ....emoji typo...

You'll get there. One word at a time etc etc. Although I've just started editing mine and remembered how titchy it is - only 72k! And I've already lost nearly 1k doing some major revisions to the first chapter. I guess I'll lose another 5-7 but need to add some to the ending. It's still going to be short though. Barely a novel. And this genre is normally 80k plus so I don't even know if an agent would look at it ... I'd have to add a whole subplot but it feels complete as it is. I've no idea why it's so short because it feels like loads happens!

generic writing a new book always seems easier to me than editing! Which is why I have 50% of another book sitting around and tempting me!

I really do think there should be more room for shorter books Tippety. I find them so much easier to manage when I'm feeling a bit unwell. I've been comfort reading the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy books which are barely 50k each and they are just perfect in my view.

I just reread the last third and it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be, in fact there were some bits I really rather like, which is not bad for a first draft. Feeling a bit more positive about the editing now.

Writing a new story always is more appealing to me too.

Currently:
I've got one I should edit.

My November one which needs putting into chapters and altering.

One script (for the youth theatre I'm involved in) just finished.

One script half way through but I think I need to rethink quite a bit of it. I also need to get permission to adapt the book if we're actually going to do it.

Then a very long fantasy that I've written various bits of over the years and I'll suddenly have an idea and add another scene or two. They're a bit fragmented because they don't totally link up in all parts and I don't think I ever will, it's one I write for fun, although sometimes I reuse the scenes or characters in other things.

I like your list witchend. I think we all accrue those projects ... like bits of diy around the house that we know we really ought to be getting on with. Or I think of them like a bag of half finished garments ... lovely colours and fabrics to run your fingers through but not quite fit to wear...

I love short books too bigly. Loads of classics are what we'd call novellas today. Didn't realise HHG books were so short. I'm also a big fan of those. And the Dirk Gently books. I keep hearing things about short fiction and novellas having a resurgence but I don't know if it applies to genre stuff.

I hacked my first chapter to pieces last night and have no idea how to put it together again. But I am planning a trip to Brighton next week for research as most of my book is set there and I've not been for a few years. So that's exciting- the first time I've ever done anything for a book that isn't just sitting at a desk. It also has scenes set in Malaysia and Italy but unfortunately I can't afford those research trips!

Ooooo.... research trip! Sounds pretty fun. Any excuse for a nice trip to Brighton sounds good to me.

I'm coming round to the idea of having different stuff going on at the same time. I'd resisted it as I was worried I would just end up never finishing anything, but I'm starting to realise there is a value in taking a break and doing something else for a bit sometimes.

I wrote out a bit editing plan the other day for my epic and then just couldn't get started on it so ended up searching for random stock photos online and writing little poems. They weren't very good, but it was nice to feel like I'd made something. I'm thinking about starting a plan for my nanowrimo fantasy noir. I've never managed to do planning before, but I want it to be quite tight so a vague arch and plot points might be helpful so I don't accidentally wander off into epic.

I started sketching out a plan for my noir and now I really, really want to start writing it. Planning it boring! I might just start it and then use nanowrimo to start the next book in my epic series...unless I come up with another exciting idea.

Just because we were chatting about the joy of short things, I thought I would share this...

Tor.com Publishing Opening to Novella Submissions on July 30
www.tor.com/2018/06/25/tor-com-publishing-opening-to-novella-submissions-on-july-30/

Thanks for link. So I guess novellas are making a come back in genre fic too!

I like that excited feeling at the start of a new book. I always think each new book is going to be brilliant (then of course the disillusionment sets in!) Did you start your noir? Would you plan to finish it by November?

I've wrangled my first chapter into some sort of shape. Now on about chapter 4 of editing. Started looking up places to visit in Brighton then had a crisis of confidence that everything in my book is silly and unrealistic! But it's fiction, right? I'm allowed to make stuff up ... I mean, lots of popular books would be a bit silly if you read them with a cynical eye ...

Don't worry about it being silly. I tell myself all books seem silly to the writer. Mine is flipping ridiculous. I think I need to set a book somewhere in the real world so I can go on a research trip. It sounds fun.

I had a meeting with the uni occupational health Dr on Monday and have been told I will be off uni for at least 3 months due to high levels of crazy, so have decided this is enough time to get a decent draft of the noir done and try and get some poems published. I need to have something to do or I will go even crazier being stuck at home on my own when DH is back to work and DD starts school again. So far I have a grand total of 400 words, but it's a start.

I finally finished the FutureLearn poetry course - yay! Thoroughly enjoyed it and as a result have three finished poems (though two definitely need polish). I'm not a natural poet - I have no ear for metre at ALL but it's been a great learning experience. And I think poetry might be a way for me to explore those little ideas I get sometimes that aren't quite plots.

I must admit I have tried to work on one project at a time but find it impossible. I like your list, Witchend. I have similar with fantasy novel to edit, contemporary novel to write, and lots of short stories on the go or on submission.

I think it's partly down to how I write. If I'm editing I need a big screen and decent time at my desk. If I'm writing a first draft then I can do it anywhere - iPhone (dictating or brief notes), iPad (Google Docs), even work at lunchtimes. So I end up being slower to tackle finishing projects and doing lots of bits of work.

Will be interesting to see if I can be more disciplined now poetry course is ticked off.

Lots of books are silly of course, Tippety but I know what you mean. I started off wanting to make my contemporary quite literary (or at least taken seriously) but now it feels a bit fluffy and chicklitty which wasn't what I wanted. But hey maybe I can fix in the edit!

Three months off is a good chunk of time Bigly as long as you are taking care of yourself too :)

Yes look after yourself bigly. Take it easy as well as writing a whole novel

We seem to have the same working pattern generic. I can scribble a first draft anywhere/anyhow but I need my laptop and quiet time to edit. I also have the same chick lit/literary dilemma! But the other way round in that I started off writing this as a parody and it turned into something serious. The tone is a bit all over the place so I'm trying to even it up and end up somewhere in the middle but I keep wondering if there's a market for that?! I always write romances and it always end up feeling a bit chicklitty because I'm not serious enough and I can't make my characters depressed enough to be literary...

Might head off on my research trip tomorrow... actually a bit nervous. Been a long time since I've left the house without the shield of children or travelled anywhere alone!

I hope you're having a lovely day in Brighton Tippety!

I also like poetry for exploring the smaller or more esoteric ideas generic. It feels like a good tool for some of the things I just haven't been able to express properly in prose forms.

I'm still not very good at writing prose at the moment so only managing around 400 words at a time on the new novel, but hoping this will get better again as my concentration improves. It's nice to have something to work on even if it's only in tiny chunks. I'm only planning a short book for this one, maybe 50k if that. It's fun writing in the first person though as I've never really done if before and she has a good noir detective voice.

Thanks bigly! It was a good day though felt a bit strange walking around by myself. Didn't help that I had two separate tourist survey people stop to ask me my reason for visiting!

It was quite reassuring that almost everything I've put in the book (even made up places) seems realistic. I found versions of the places and houses I'd imagined. Felt strangely like I was doing one of those movie location tours! Interestingly I think if I'd visited much earlier in the first draft I might have set scenes in a wider range of places but it doesn't really matter. It's not a book about Brighton. The location is just back drop. I'll remember that for my next book though.

I have to say I like the idea of a noir detective fantasy novel! I keep meaning to read more Raymond Chandler etc.

Did you tell the survey people you were terribly busy researching your future bestseller.

I've now submitted a couple of poems to a couple of competitions just for the fun of it. I'm now writing some with the view to submitting to a new online publication just because I liked the theme and fancied writing about something a bit different.

I'm at about 3k on the new novel now and it is chugging along quite nicely. I listened to a few Chandler's and some other classic noir recently as I haven't actually read any for years. They are great bits of writing as long as you can grit your teeth through the rampant misogyny, racism and homophobia. It got a bit much after a while and I had to take a break and read something a bit less relentlessly grim.

Haha, it was tempting but no, just 'Erm, having a look round...' 'And you're here alone?' 'Er, yes.'

3k is good going! And nice work on the poems. Good luck with them! I've got really into editing now so might attempt to do some when I've finished this run-through of the book and need a break from it.

I'm sure most books date really badly and boiled crime fiction probably wasn't very forward looking to begin with! I always find it tough that issue of when 'good' art contains bad stuff or is created by someone with questionable views. Probaby the things we write would be considered un-PC in 50 years time. I remember watching a clip of something like Friends recently and thinking yikes!

Yes, stuff definitely does date. Also hardboiled and noir was, I think, supposed to be grim with unlikable characters on top of that which can make it doubly hard going. However, the dialogue is astounding, plotting is tight and hell and the whole depictions of the city in a time of shifting values is spot on.

As I read a lot of epic fantasy and absolutely adore action movies i guess I've had to get pretty good at enjoying the stuff about them I enjoy and still acknowledging the bits that are more problematic. I am a massive fan of the fast and furious franchise, but seriously the depiction of women in it is just terrible. I'm not personally of the opinion that you should dismiss everything worthy of note from a work because it also has parts of it that are worthy of serious critisicm.

It's also been interesting to think about how to utilise and turn these tropes around a bit in my own piece. My PI is female and bisexual, though 3k in and I haven't actually described her or stated her gender at all even though she has commented on the attractiveness of both male and female characters. I'm seriously considering just never mentioning her gender at all in the whole book and confusing the hell out of readers as she flirts outrageously with everyone she meets just for the lolz as the young people say.

That sounds fun, Bigly!

Glad the research went well Tappity :). I set a novel in my old home town once and had to go back there to remind myself of what various streets were like.

Argh, today have been reminded of why I don't like getting crits, even though I know writers are supposed to have a thick skin and find them 'invaluable'. Did a flash piece for a forum contest and one comment, from a writer I really like who does quite well is along the lines of 'this didn't work for me. To fix this flash, you need to completely change the story and make it 5k'

I don't mind the 'it doesn't work for me stuff'. I don't mind when people say 'you could try x or y or consider z'. I am NOT a fan of people saying 'this is definitely broken and you must completely change it to fix it'.

I spent most of the last year fannying about with longer short stories that haven't gone anywhere. The only ones I've sold have been flash pieces. I'd rather polish a flash, see if it sells, dump it if it doesn't, than make it into something literally five times the length... It's like reading a 20k novella and saying 'oh this definitely needs 100k to work'. No, it's your opinion!

I'm just a non-thick-skinned feeble writer, right?

Ah I feel for you generic! I barely even have a skin, so you seem to be taking it remarkably well to me. I think you can ignore the bit you're objecting to - everything I've ever read/done/seen to do with giving feedback says never to tell the writer what to do. So, fancy pants writer was wrong!

bigly I quite like the idea of not stating her gender. I tend to go for the bare minimum in character description anyway! On a wider point I think gender equality will probably be reached sooner by focusing on people as people and not their gender ...

And yes I find a lot of media hard to stomach, to the point I can't really watch tv anymore. I object to anything with a plot in which a woman is raped, murdered, threatened with rape, or threatened with murder. Which rules out about 99% of all drama. I acknowledge that rape and violence is a reality for many women and there are important stories to tell about it but everything I watch uses it merely as a plot device-an inciting incident, character motivation etc. And the worst offenders are the ones that kill a woman in the first five minutes (to give the male detective a job to do) then spend the next five minutes with the camera lingering on the murdered body, as though we should be expected to care about female appearance even in death. Gah. Ok, having a rant. Will stop now!

Hah, my phone autocorrected 'woman' to 'white man'. Says it all really!